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dead SAL2470Z- camera clicks & no aperture readout

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feinberj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote feinberj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: dead SAL2470Z- camera clicks & no aperture readout
    Posted: 01 December 2015 at 01:11
I've got an SAL2470Z lens which I purchased new about 3 years ago. It is the lens I use the most on my a900. When I tried to use it on Thanksgiving, I found that when I turned the camera there was a clicking sound from inside the camera body and the aperture setting would not display. I tried cleaning the contacts with alcohol, but this did not change anything.

The camera works fine with other lenses. When I tried the lens with my a700, I don't get the clicking but the aperture setting does not display and the camera more or less freezes up.

I've uploaded a video in which you can hear the clicking and see the display:

https://youtu.be/TRWx9YYoCj8

Has anyone seen anything like this before? Who would you recommend using for repair? This is my main lens for the a900, and I am quite sad not to have it working. If it can be repaired I assume it would be significantly cheaper than just buying a new one.

Thank you,

John Feinberg
Montclair, NJ

Edited by feinberj - 04 May 2017 at 14:47
 



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stiuskr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stiuskr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 02:26
I'm guessing the SSM is slipping/not engaging. When you mount the lens to the camera the first thing it does when powered up is cycle to infinity focus and then stop, I hear that same click with my SSM lenses, but just one as it stops at infinity. Rotate the focus ring on the 24-70 to mid range and then power up the camera and watch the scale on the lens and see if it moves when it clicks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jvandegr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 02:28
Hi John,

Sorry to hear about your lens. This is the first time I've heard about this issue with a Zeiss. Try cleaning the contacts with DeoxIT. This has fixed all of my lens-body issues in the past and will likely work better than alcohol. It's available at Radio Shack. If you get it, use it sparingly - a small amount goes a long way. I use eye shadow applicators to apply it. If this doesn't work, I recommend contacting Zeiss directly for repair. You could also try Precision Camera if Zeiss says it's not under warranty and gives you a high repair estimate. Good luck.

Jon
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analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 03:44
Surprise failures are always annoying. Those without an obvious cause ten times worse.

At this point I have only comments and suggestions to consider.

You said the sound was from the camera body, not the lens, so something slipping in the lens doesn't correlate. Also with an SSM lens (or at least with the two I own) the camera does not turn focus to infinity when turned on, it does it when turned off. What stiuskr described is what happens with a screw drive lens. With SSM lens the focus doesn't move at turn on.    

In addition, when turned off the camera shakes the sensor as a dust cleaning step. The dust shake is audible but not loud. I do hear one very soft click with the 24-70 after the camera is turned on, but not from focus moving.

Neither sound is anything like the tick-tock sound on the video. Can you locate the sound more specifically?      

You don't list your gear so I'll ask, do the other lenses you are testing with include another SSM lens? The results with screw drive, 5 contact, and other brand lenses will not necessarily verify that this is a lens problem. That the lens does not work with the A700 is more suggestive.

What happens with no lens?   

As mentioned no aperture reading could be contacts, dirty or damaged. Or a loose mount plate allowing an air gap between contacts or misaligned contacts. And this could vary just enough between lenses that only one is affected. Carefully check the torque on the small screws holding the mount plates on body and on the lens. They can work loose.

Loose mount can also prevent the lens from locking in place. Test whether the lens is locking to the body and staying locked. If the lens back off from locked it will definitely open contacts. (A slight amount of rotational play when locked is not uncommon. Varies with lens and age.)     

Noise at turn on can be failure in SS, possibly something else that the body checks. Reported more as a buzz than a tick tock however.

Now that I think about it, the sound it reminds me of a weak power supply trying and failing to power on, then tripping a breaker or shutting down after a programmed number of attempts. Not specifically on a camera, on anything.           



                               
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 04:14
Originally posted by analytical analytical wrote:

... with an SSM lens (or at least with the two I own) the camera does not turn focus to infinity when turned on, it does it when turned off. What stiuskr described is what happens with a screw drive lens.

That's not universally correct either. I have some screw-drive lenses (both 5-pin and 8-pin) and some SAM lenses. All of them reset to infinity at power-off when used with both my A55 and A77.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stiuskr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 04:41
When a SSM is first attached to the body it will search for infinity the first time you power it up, and do the same when you power it down. It might not move when you power it up because it's already there but it checks for infinity and you can hear it, and it's the same sound that I hear in my three that I hear in the video.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wietse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 05:49
I had five years ago another problem with my 24-70. It would not focus from 24 to 50. 50 to 70 no problem. I asked Sony were to send it. I give the repair centre permission to repair if it was not more then 200 euro. If it was more they tell me first what was the problem. They could not repair it by themselves and send it to France. The total amount of the repair was about 150 euro. Until now no problems anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 16:30
Originally posted by analytical analytical wrote:

... with an SSM lens (or at least with the two I own) the camera does not turn focus to infinity when turned on, it does it when turned off. What stiuskr described is what happens with a screw drive lens.
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

That's not universally correct either.
Who said it was supposed to be? I addressed the question asked, A900 with 24-70 M1.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote feinberj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 16:35
User Analytical asks:
You don't list your gear so I'll ask, do the other lenses you are testing with include another SSM lens?

GOOD POINT! I had been using the camera with a non-SSM lens and it was OK. I have only one other SSM lens, the SAL70300G. When I try this lens, I have more or less the same problem. I don't get the clicking, but I don't see the aperture settings (just the 2 dashes in place of current aperture).

Another user had suggested trying deoxyIT - I'll try that on the camera contacts. If that does not work I'll try carefully checking the screws on the camera mount.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 16:44
Originally posted by stiuskr stiuskr wrote:

When a SSM is first attached to the body it will search for infinity the first time you power it up, and do the same when you power it down.
I was already familiar with the behavior you describe on many bodies and lenses. But I am not speaking from memory. I tested it.    

When I tested, originally to hear a normal startup sound, I found that the A900 with 24-70 never moved focus at startup, no matter where focus is set. Then I tested a screw drive lens, a 100 macro, and it did set to inf at power on, if not already there.

FWIW the A900 with 70-400 does the same as A900 with 24-70. And the A99 does as the A900.

I did not check any other lenses or bodies. Some other combinations might do as you describe, but apparently not the combination of interest here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 17:20
Originally posted by feinberj feinberj wrote:

GOOD POINT! I had been using the camera with a non-SSM lens and it was OK. I have only one other SSM lens, the SAL70300G. When I try this lens, I have more or less the same problem. I don't get the clicking, but I don't see the aperture settings (just the 2 dashes in place of current aperture).
That suggests that the body is involved. But you did say an A700 had a problem with the 24-70 too. That suggests the lens is involved.

Ignoring the A700 for a moment, if all the lenses that worked on the A900 are screw drive, that suggests a problem with body contacts 6 - 8, which handle the SSM power and control, in addition to the "D" flash distance information. SAM lenses, of which I own none, presumably also use contacts 6-8 to power and control AF drive.

Edited by analytical - 02 December 2015 at 00:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 17:22
Additional info. The 100 macro I used is an 8 contact "D" type.

edit: removed quote of earlier post that I hadn't meant to include.       

Edited by analytical - 02 December 2015 at 00:22
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2015 at 17:37
Originally posted by stiuskr stiuskr wrote:

and it's the same sound that I hear in my three that I hear in the video.
The repeating tick tock sound I hear in the video is nothing like any sound I hear at start with the A900 and 24-70. I hear one soft click from the body, versus the video's loud repeating tick tock.

What the tick tock reminds me of in general is a relay closing then opening, closing then opening... For example four tries at on then off followed by give up and power down could be be protection against a detected high current draw.          
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2015 at 20:25
@feinberj: I'm sure we would all like to hear what the problem actually was once you run it down. And good luck.

I haven't ever had to repair a Sony or Minolta lens, other than clean and lube, and that not recently, so no comments on where to try.             

@stiuskr: I noticed today what you meant. After changing lens on the a900 to the 24-70, focus is set to inf at power on one time, and one time only. While the lens stays mounted, subsequent off-on cycles do not trigger set to inf, whether from power switch or power save.

The sound of first power up after mount is different - but mostly just the added sound of focus turning, then a soft click. But this sound is no louder than the sound at subsequent power on. In either case I have to listen carefully or place my ear close to the camera to even notice it.

Edited by analytical - 02 December 2015 at 20:33
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