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Filter threads, are they the same?

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LORENZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LORENZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Filter threads, are they the same?
    Posted: 11 November 2007 at 06:13
I believe any 49mm filter will fit any 49mm lens. As will a 62mm filter fit any 62mm lens no matter the brand of either?

The Auto industry has fine/course threads along with the diameter for nuts and bolts. Do I have it right if I were to get the correct filter diameter and call it a day?

Any suggestions on UV filter brands. It looks like Hoya is a big name when scrolling through ebay for a filter kit.

Sean
 



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Swoopy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Swoopy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 06:42
Beware with larger sizes. Some lenses will state for example an '86c' where others can state an ordinary 77 or 82. The 'c' stands for coarse, meaning that the thread is faster (not sure if that's right way to say it in English) or to say it differently the peaks and troughs of the thread are wider apart.

Putting an ordinarily threaded filter on a lens with coarse thread will destroy either your filter-thread, or the lenses', or both.
If no 'c' is stated, then a filter, or collapsible rubber hood, stating (for example) 55mm should always mechanically fit on a lens stating 55mm.

Hoya is a good brand. Myself, I can recommend this eBay seller who sells Hoya Super HMC (High Definition Multi-Coated I believe) UV filters. Cheaper for me than buying the cheapest brand (usually Hama, which are not even that bad) locally.

-edit- I discovered that 82c was perhaps a bad example of a coarse filter indication to give since it's also a type (blue) of colour filter. Removed.

Edited by Swoopy - 11 November 2007 at 06:53
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brettania View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote brettania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 06:50

Sean -- don't get too enthusiastic about filters as in most cases you are better off without unless you are buying the ones that cost nearly as much as a secondhand 50 f1.7.

The lesser ones can contribute to a lessening of IQ even though they may look clean and perfectly transparent.

I make exceptions for my expensive glass (70-200 SSM) or some of the ones with a very prominent front element -- but the latter can be the hardest to fit a filter on.

Welcome to Dyxum.

Edited by brettania - 11 November 2007 at 06:54
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Pete Ganzel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pete Ganzel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 07:24
Hi Sean:

All filters used with DSLR lenses have the same thread pitch 0.75mm.
Very small filters (around 30mm in diameter or less) have a thread pitch of 0.5mm.

Good quality filters like those made by the major brands such as Hoya and B+W will have very little affect on image quality.

Pete



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LORENZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LORENZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 08:08
Were going to be shooting in the desert alot. Race trucks make a huge amount of dust. This is the reason for the filter/protection. Hoya or B+h it is. I was hoping I could get away with the a cheapy $7 unit off ebay...

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. 62mm with out the "C" which depicts coarse threads. (62mm may not be a large enough lens to have the "C" option) Hoya or B+H.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhotoTraveler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 08:22
The threads are standardized, so you need not worry. The threads work like the rest of the metric thread world. In that for a given application, the thread pitch is "understood" unless said otherwise.

That's why with metric bolts, you will see M8, M10, M12.   It's the default. Unless a custom thread pitch from the norm is used, it's not noted. When it isn't the normal pitch, you will see it something like M33x2.0

The thread pitches for filters are not the same as your normal screws threads. But since you are looking at filters for filter threads, it's back to being understood.   So any 49mm thread filter will work on any lens listed as needing 49mm.

I wasn't aware of the "C" but that is a perfect example of noting it if it's not the "understood" pitch.

It's part of Metric threads that are so nice.   No need for 1/4-20 just say M6 and you got what you need to know. By default it's understood to be M6x1.0 unlike English where the thread for a 1/4" bolt is not understood to be a particular pitch.
 



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analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 19:00
To repeat an earlier post and to clarify another.

In the larger filter sizes (86 and above) there are at least two thread pitches. There may be three. Listings on B&H for 86mm include 86C, 86M and 86. (86 and 86M might be the same thing, as listed by a clueless vendor.)       

======================================

Metric threads do come in several pitches, just like SAE. In fact often three pitches rather than usually two in SAE.

The only difference is that metric is specified in width of one thread rather than threads per fixed length. 1/4-20 is 1/4 inch dia, 20 threads per inch also called coarse.   1/4-28 is 28 threads per inch and called fine. 10-1.5 is 10mm dia 1.5mm per thread. 10-1.25 and 10-1.75 are also common. In automobiles at least the pitch is always noted in the manual, since you will fine different pitches on the same car depending on use.

But camera filter threads are certainly not standard bolt threads. They are much much finer, perhaps unique to camera lenses and filters. This may also be true of the fine machine screws used to assemble cameras and lenses, since you cannot buy them retail. (If you know a source please tell me.)      
       
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Mr.Pink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mr.Pink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 20:15
Good quality filters like those made by the major brands such as Hoya and B+W will have very little affect on image quality.

Pete

I'm thinking on buying Cokin UV MC filter for my Sigma 18-50 f2.8. Is it Cokin less quality then Hoya or B+W? What's the difference between UV Haze and UV Haze MRC (and slim line of each one) B+W filters? There's big difference in price, so if I choose to buy B+W, I wan't to purchase ''best buy''. Can anyone recommend me, please:)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pete Ganzel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 20:25
Seems to becoming a long thread here :7)

All Hoya filters above 40.5mm have 0.75mm thread pitch.



B+W lists their 86,95,105,112 and 122mm filters as having Metric 1.0mm thread pitch. Below these all are .75mm pitch until you reach 43mm where both .05 and .75mm pitches are available.

SK Grimes has a little page showing all the complexities.

Filter Threads

Way more complicated than necessary and as I said before, for 99.5% of lenses used on DSLRs will have a standard 0.75mm pitch and any filter of the right diameter will fit.

Pete

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analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 21:58
I think maybe others besides me have run into the 86C problem with the Bigma, Sigma 170-500 or the Tamron 200-500 all of which are 86C. Nevertheless some retailers list the other pitch as an accessory. You have to look hard to find the C in Sigma's documentation. Sigma brand filters list as 86C, but the lens listing just says 86.       

Tiffen lists c and m for 86mm and above, which are likely 1.0 and .75. Same for B&H house brand.    

The .75 will go on a turn or two then bind. Also produces strange stripey bokeh, I assume because as it binds it bows the glass slightly.


             
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Pete Ganzel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pete Ganzel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 23:32
Hi Analytical:

So the Bigma threads are 1mm pitch?
It would be interesting to see what the large KM lenses use.

Pete
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Xan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Xan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2007 at 23:50
Personally I`m using Hoya Super HMC UV filters. Not seeing them affecting IQ. Quite happy with them especially at making few shot at my home town located in mountain valley.
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LORENZ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LORENZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2007 at 02:22
What would be a good quality budged minded brand in your opinion?
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Gabriel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gabriel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2007 at 07:55
For good-for-price ones, I'd suggest "S&W" UV filters (easily available on EBay).

Of course, it's likely to lower quality than a top quality filter, but is a very good price/quality tradeoff.
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