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HVL-F58AM on a7

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ahaveland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahaveland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HVL-F58AM on a7
    Posted: 01 August 2017 at 13:34
Hi, Can the older sony flash be used wireless with Sony A7 body? Without any other extras? I see there are some adapters if you wish to put the flash on the flash shoe.. But I wanted to use it wireless..
Or pherhaps some cheap ebay wireless trigger that works out of the box..??
 



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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2017 at 14:42
The A7 doesn't have a built-in flash so you need *something* to trigger the WL flash.
You have a choice between an optical WL flash like the HVL-F20M, a full-size Sony flash with an 'M' on the end, or any of the various radio triggers in which case you need a radio trigger (Tx) on the camera and a radio receiver under the F58AM (and possibly a shoe converter as well).

There have been several previous threads on radio triggers. Look back a few months and you'll see them.

Look at Michael Hohners flash setup for optical WL flash compatibility*. Scroll down to the camera section, select A7 as the camera and any of the flashes on camera to check they will drive the HVL-F58 (they all will!)

* confusing, I know, but in cameras WL means (optical) wireless and NOT radio, when everyone else uses wireless to mean radio

Edited by Miranda F - 01 August 2017 at 14:47
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Post Options Post Options   Quote coyote1086 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2017 at 18:27
Michael's site is very informative, the 20M/20AM is a good little controller which can trigger most flashes wireless, even those older 3600/36AM/5600/56AM.
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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2017 at 18:40
Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

Or pherhaps some cheap ebay wireless trigger that works out of the box..??

Yes, you can get cheap radio trigger systems if you don't need TTL autoflash or HSS.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote coyote1086 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2017 at 19:19
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

Or pherhaps some cheap ebay wireless trigger that works out of the box..??

Yes, you can get cheap radio trigger systems if you don't need TTL autoflash or HSS.


I tried using the Pixel King trigger for old flash shoe with the ADP-MAA on the A7ii, with the 58AM on the pixel king receiver. This setup doesn't quite work as the flash fired but was somehow with very low power. Even in manual mode.

The OP can use cheap radio trigger, but he will also need to get a flash shoe adapter.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2017 at 22:54
Originally posted by coyote1086 coyote1086 wrote:

I tried using the Pixel King trigger for old flash shoe with the ADP-MAA on the A7ii, with the 58AM on the pixel king receiver. This setup doesn't quite work as the flash fired but was somehow with very low power. Even in manual mode.

The Pixel King is not one of the cheap triggers I was referring to. It does support TTL autoflash and HSS because it tricks the camera into thinking a flash is mounted directly on the shoe. It has also been reported to behave unpredictably with recent SLT models, so incompatibilities apparently exist there.

The OP can use cheap radio trigger, but he will also need to get a flash shoe adapter.

Not necessarily. It would be possible to have a transmitter that fits the new shoe and a receiver that fits the old shoe.
 



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ahaveland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahaveland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 09:18
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:


Not necessarily. It would be possible to have a transmitter that fits the new shoe and a receiver that fits the old shoe.


This could be an option.. However I might just buy the adp-maa adapter and accept the big flash on top in those situations..

Or sell the F58AM and buy a new flash system.

Why haven't anyone made a small 20$ Sony transmitter yet that communicate directly with the F58Am??

I see these small adapters can be bought for Nikon flashes..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 10:33
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by coyote1086 coyote1086 wrote:

I tried using the Pixel King trigger for old flash shoe with the ADP-MAA on the A7ii, with the 58AM on the pixel king receiver. This setup doesn't quite work as the flash fired but was somehow with very low power. Even in manual mode.

The Pixel King is not one of the cheap triggers I was referring to. It does support TTL autoflash and HSS because it tricks the camera into thinking a flash is mounted directly on the shoe. It has also been reported to behave unpredictably with recent SLT models, so incompatibilities apparently exist there.

The OP can use cheap radio trigger, but he will also need to get a flash shoe adapter.

Not necessarily. It would be possible to have a transmitter that fits the new shoe and a receiver that fits the old shoe.


I was going to comment that many (most?) of the cheaper radio triggers don't seem to support TTL flash - as you comment the PIxel King system isn't one of the cheap ones, and therefore is better featured.

Of course, Sony now make their own radio system, but it costs as much as other brand flash guns and controllers.

If the OP doesn't yet have any flash (I am assuming he own the 58 flash already), then other brands offer flash guns that support wireless, TTL and have the SOny multi interface shoe - Nissin and Godox/Neewer being examples. I've used Nissin and cannot recommend, others seem to like Godox/Neewer.

I mention those cheaper brands as they are well featured and may cost less than an expensive TTL radio trigger system - which also means if you want to add to it later it will cost much less. If you want a professional standard system, buy an expensive brand.

It may also be worth considering if later you need other features such as the ability to trigger studio flashes, as that could influence your choice (e.g. you want a PC sync socket on the trigger).

The cheapest short term option would be to buy the Sony '20 flash gun with the multi interface shoe. The Sony wireless system works satisfactorily provided there is a line of sight between the controller (camera) and the flash gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 15:19
Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

Why haven't anyone made a small 20$ Sony transmitter yet ...

I assume you mean a small $20 radio transmitter and receiver. Here's a set for $20; but you'll still need an adapter for the new shoe on the camera.

... that communicate directly with the F58Am?

The only thing that can communicate directly with the F58AM is a shoe-mounted controller flash (or a pop-up flash on cameras that have those).

Edited by sybersitizen - 03 August 2017 at 15:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahaveland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2017 at 07:32
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:


I assume you mean a small $20 radio transmitter and receiver. Here's a set for $20; but you'll still need an adapter for the new shoe on the camera.


The only thing that can communicate directly with the F58AM is a shoe-mounted controller flash (or a pop-up flash on cameras that have those).


As the HVl-F20m or other new flashguns can be used to control the F58AM, why didn't anyone think of a small led transmitter that use Sony protocols to control a Sony flashgun? At least Sony them selves should offer something small and lightweight to be mounted on top of my A7.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2017 at 11:04
Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

As the HVl-F20m or other new flashguns can be used to control the F58AM, why didn't anyone think of a small led transmitter that use Sony protocols to control a Sony flashgun? At least Sony them selves should offer something small and lightweight to be mounted on top of my A7.


Good question, but as someone who tried something similar a few years ago, I suspect the answer is that as the Sony WL protocol uses very short high-power bursts for signalling, it was difficult to get the power out of leds. It probably isn't now, but you still need a fairly large capacitor to supply the high current, so maybe there isn't the advantage in size you expect. It would be worth someone trying through. It shouldn't be difficult to take an old flashgun and interface the flash tube drive to a power LED. You could use a bunch of IR leds (which is what I did many years ago) for invisible flash control. Still line of sight and limited range in daylight, though, which is why most have gone to radio. Radio is smaller.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2017 at 15:56
Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

At least Sony them selves should offer something small and lightweight to be mounted on top of my A7.

IMO, Sony should have put a pop-up flash on your camera (and on my A99), as is done with APS-C A-mount bodies. Then we'd have not only a wireless controller, but also something to provide easy and convenient fill flash and catchlights for subjects' eyes.

Edited by sybersitizen - 04 August 2017 at 16:39
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2017 at 08:34
Yes. They seem to have decided that a flash on top wouldn't appeal to the pros. They claimed at the time it wouldn't fit on the A900 pentaprism, but the 800si has a big pentaprism and a flash ... a very powerful flash, in fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2017 at 22:11
Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

Hi, Can the older Sony flash be used wireless with Sony A7 body?

Ahoy!

Have you checked the Sony (USA) compatibility chart for info? Have you bought a flash and/or adapter and if not, what are you looking for? Have you looked in the Dyxum classified ads section as there's several available via posted URL's?

I cannot verify the accuracy of the Sony (USA) compatibilty chart, but it may answer some of your questions and there's other databases that might be suitable such that on MHohner website.

If this info has been stated already, then my apologies to the OP as I haven't read all replies.
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