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SAR & A99 ISO Hot Shoe Report

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kefkafloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kefkafloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2012 at 13:47
C&N's flash feet aren't metal either. If you want something to break, you want a cheap, easily replaceable flash foot to break instead of destroying the shoe/top plate of the camera.

Hopefully the F60's foot is just as easy to fix as the F58's; that one could be field replaceable with just a spare and a screwdriver.
 



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analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2012 at 14:54
Originally posted by GrahamB GrahamB wrote:

I wonder if Sony intends to refresh it's current lineup with the new hot shoe, or wait till the respective replacement model is introduced? Perhaps they'll copy the Nikon "s" model refresh.Graham
Another dilemma is whether to continue to sell both types. Would make sense to me because current camera owners might buy a flash in the future and resist adapter.    

There are only 3 "normal" flash units in the current line up F58, F43, F20. Plus ring (not actually a flash) and macro twin.

The F60 dimensions and specs closely match the F58, so that one is covered.

Since A99 does not have pop up flash for wireless control there ought to be a new shoe F2X soon.

My guess is that they hold the F4X until a new crop frame camera comes out.

With ring and macro twin the adapter should be enough, since height of the power unit doesn't affect the light position.    

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Post Options Post Options   Quote matthiaspaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2012 at 19:25
Originally posted by GrahamB GrahamB wrote:

Originally posted by Peekayoh Peekayoh wrote:


Your reasons are invalid as they could have been implemented without discarding the familiar iISO shoe.


But where would the additional contacts have been placed, without compromising the existing design? Would the inbuilt "wobble" provide the direct contact necessary for a constant signal?

New foot, I count 9 contacts.
[...]
Old shoe. Where do you place the additional 5 contacts?
[...]

Well, Minolta already had a 7-pin variant of the Auto-lock Accessory Shoe (aka iISO hotshoe) for the 3000i/3700i and D-314i/D-316i.

Regarding the new Multi Interface Shoe, the edge connector has a maximum of 21 contacts, plus the two contacts of the ISO 518 hotshoe part. I assume, however, that some of the edge contacts carry the same signal (GND) as the ISO metal base, thereby reducing the effective number of signals to less than 23.

Greetings,

Matthias

Edited by matthiaspaul - 27 September 2012 at 16:28
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Post Options Post Options   Quote matthiaspaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2012 at 19:38
Originally posted by kefkafloyd kefkafloyd wrote:

C&N's flash feet aren't metal either.

Don't know about Canon, but the ISO flash foots of the Nikon SB-800 and SB-900 (as well as several Metz Mecaflashes) are clearly metal-based.

If you want something to break, you want a cheap, easily replaceable flash foot to break instead of destroying the shoe/top plate of the camera.

Yes, but I have seen enough flashes where the "foot" broke much further up, so that half of the case had to be replaced to repair them - very expensive. The best solution, as I see it, is if the combination of camera and flash withstands a much extended range of forces.

Greetings,

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2012 at 19:58
The problem is the entire idea of a hot shoe. The original shoe sled was never designed to hold such large battery heavy units atop a camera. They weren't even hot to begin with... mostly used for holding viewers or accessory light meters. Now we've quadrupled the weight and set the balance up high, and then ask for a robust connections that transmits data reliably... all with a head that is stressed bouncing, pivoting... more stress than ever on a "hot shoe".

Big flash units were typically mounted on brackets, and not left precariously perched atop a small foot... metal or plastic.

While the current hot shoe may be fine for microphones and small flash'n'puff... I truly believe than an entirely new mechanism should be created for securing large flash units directly to a camera.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2012 at 22:14
Originally posted by Photosopher Photosopher wrote:

The problem is the entire idea of a hot shoe... I truly believe than an entirely new mechanism should be created for securing large flash units directly to a camera.

Now there's a thought. Extending this idea, here is what Sony really should have done with the introduction of the A99 and F60:

1. Retain the same old iISO shoe in the same place on the camera and with the same capabilities for full backward compatibility with old-fashioned existing flashes and third-party radio triggers.
2. Announce that they will never introduce another new camera with that on-camera iISO shoe or another new flash with the matching foot. End of the road for further iISO development.
3. Use the new ISO-compatible foot on the F60, but make sure the flash includes a boatload of new, tantalizing features including a) elimination of pre-flash woes (a la lazy eye), b) elimination of potential contamination of the scene by light from the controller, c) radio frequency wireless control capability built in, and d) correction of all other flash system drawbacks and anomalies.
4. Keep the two new simple adapters as they have been described for limited cross-generational compatibility.
5. Introduce a new type of A99 vertical grip that supports (or optionally includes) a wrap-around bracket that extends above the camera. The bracket can be easily rotated for landscape or portrait orientation (How? I don't know - the Sony engineers can figure that out), and terminates in the new ISO-compatible accessory shoe that matches the foot of the F60 - and this is the only way to use the F60's new features on the A99.
6. Introduce another new gadget - Sony's own radio frequency transmitter set. The transmitter has both new ISO-compatible and old iISO feet on the bottom, and the receiver (also available separately for multiflash setups) has both new ISO-compatible and old iISO shoes on the top. These gadgets make any combination of old/new camera and old/new wireless flash units into a radio controlled wireless system.
7. Also introduce a simple cheapo autoflash unit with the new ISO-compatible foot as a signal that buyers of future lower level Alphas (with only the ISO-compatible shoe on top) will at least have an affordable compatible flash to purchase when the time comes.

Yes, I'm absolutely sure that would work... but have I forgotten anything?
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Faldrax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2012 at 22:52
Actually, if we take the view that wireless built in is the way forward, then why not go for a cold shoe - IE All it does is allow you to position a device on top of the camera - a small version of a tripod QR plate perhaps?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote greek_alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2012 at 23:12
Originally posted by Faldrax Faldrax wrote:

Actually, if we take the view that wireless built in is the way forward, then why not go for a cold shoe - IE All it does is allow you to position a device on top of the camera - a small version of a tripod QR plate perhaps?



that would be quite big for the camera body and drain a lot of the battery's juice but other than thatit would be great.

maybe the opposite though would fit better. i mean if the flash had the clamp and on the body was something like the plates of the tripod heads with an ISO or iISO mount shaped in there.

(sorry I'm in an exam period so my fantasy is not very limited.)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2012 at 00:27
Well they make wifi cards that transmit data. How hard could it be to transmit a flash trigger signal to a receiver? I don't think a built in RF transmitter would eat up any more power than using built in flash to trigger IR wireless. Maybe I dunno. But the Quantum 4i slaves put the meat in the receiver units. The transmitters are cheap. The receivers costly. But that might be because they'll sell more receivers than transmitters.

Ok so you might not get the 100 yard distance from a built in RF transmitter. Realistically, I only need about ten yards of reliable connection. Blue Tooth might even handle that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote IanL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2012 at 07:51
Originally posted by Photosopher Photosopher wrote:

.... Realistically, I only need about ten yards of reliable connection. Blue Tooth might even handle that.


Not Bluetooth, I think. You need a very simple, fast protocol for flash timing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sky_walker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2012 at 09:05
Bluetooth might be a good solution because it consumes very, very little power comparing to other wireless solutions.
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:


6. Introduce another new gadget - Sony's own radio frequency transmitter set. The transmitter has both new ISO-compatible and old iISO feet on the bottom, and the receiver (also available separately for multiflash setups) has both new ISO-compatible and old iISO shoes on the top. These gadgets make any combination of old/new camera and old/new wireless flash units into a radio controlled wireless system.

Wait wait wait.... I shouldn't be a gadget.
It should be a feature build in every flash, and every pro camera. I was very dissappointed not seeing it included when Sony swapped hotshoes. Radio triggering is standard these days.

And here we come to another fail: Sony did not offered full flash controls from body - including groups and separate control of them (and here I'm thinking about more then 2 groups aside from build-in flash).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sturatcliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 09:31
I think Sony have addressed two of my fears about the new hotshoe:

1 - the speed of being able to lock it into position
2 - will it stay secure or come loose over time?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote matthiaspaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 11:01
Originally posted by sturatcliffe sturatcliffe wrote:

I think Sony have addressed two of my fears about the new hotshoe:

1 - the speed of being able to lock it into position
2 - will it stay secure or come loose over time?


The HVL-F60M flash features both, a quick-locking mechanism and locking pins. Therefore, it will be securely locked in the hot shoe.

But not all equipment with Multi Interface hot shoe features a quick-locking mechanism. For example, the flash adapter ADP-MAA does not have a quick-locking mechanism nor does it have locking pins in its foot. Therefore there is a very real risk that it will come off sooner or later - in particular with an iISO flash mounted on top of it.

Greetings,

Matthias

Edited by matthiaspaul - 22 October 2012 at 11:05
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