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Lightroom metadata

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Phil Wood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lightroom metadata
    Posted: 26 August 2018 at 12:49
I have two Minolta 28-105mm zooms, the xi (1991) and the non-RS 1994 issue. They have different metadata (as read by Irfanview):

Minolta - AF 28-105 xi F3.5-4.5
Lens Model - 28-105mm F3.5-4.5
Lens Type - 26151

Minolta - AF 28-105 F3.5-4.5
Lens Model - 28-105mm F3.5-4.5
Lens Type - 10

However, Lightroom 6 does not distinguish between them.

I assume that LR is ignoring the makerID and only using the model text. Is there anyway of persuading it to use the makerID?

 



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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2018 at 19:09
Maybe the optical formula is identical, so it doesn't matter.
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Phil Wood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2018 at 08:40
It matters to me.

I'd like it if Lightroom could tell the difference between pictures taken by two different lenses of the same model, but I accept that this is not possible from the metadata. I can also see that instances where different lenses have the same metadata are indistinguishable to software.

But these two lenses are easily distinguishable using data in the metadata, why is Lightroom not using it?
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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2018 at 15:49
Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:

But these two lenses are easily distinguishable using data in the metadata, why is Lightroom not using it?

Again, the answer must be that Lightroom's designers didn't see a need to distinguish between your two lenses that presumably behave identically, so they didn't build that into the program.

I think I should point out that the model text you referred to in your original post does not (AFAIK) exist in metadata. That text is generated by whatever software is reading the file.

Example: A file from my A77 made with my first generation Minolta 50/1.4 is read in ExifTool GUI as Minolta AF 50mm F1.4 [New]. It is read in PhotoME as Minolta/Sony AF 50mm f/1.4 (D). Both are clearly wrong in terms of the precise model; but since both models have the same lens ID, a distinction can't be made.

If you really want Lightroom to distinguish between the lens IDs, it might be possible for you to add a personal database of lens IDs and the associated text you'd like to see generated by them. I don't use Lightroom, so I can't say anything about that for sure.
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JosR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JosR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2018 at 07:47
Take a look at this post:
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/lens-information-in-sony-alpha-jpg-and-arw-files_topic81142_post940862.html?#940862
LensModel is written by the camera, but "xi" being a non-Sony feature, your Sony camera will not write this, and therefore it writes the same LensModel for both lenses.
Unfortunately, Lightroom will normally use LensModel to display the lens name, and only use LensType in some cases with ARW files.
However, you can use Exiftool to change the LensModel name based on LensType, e.g.

   exiftool.exe -LensModel="Minolta AF 28-105mm F3.5-4.5 xi" -if "$Sony:LensType# eq 26151" *.JPG
and
   exiftool.exe -LensModel="Minolta AF 28-105mm F3.5-4.5" -if "$Sony:LensType# eq 10" *.JPG

Alternatively, and especially for ARW files, you can use Exiftool to write the desired lens name into an XMP sidecar file, see the examples in the cited post/thread above.

Minolta Dynax 7 + 24-105/3.5-4.5 + 100-400/4.5-6.7 APO + 100/2.8 Macro D + 17-35/2.8-4
Sony A580 + Zeiss 16-80/3.5-4.5 + Sigma 10-20/3.5, Sony A850 + SAL-28-75 + SAL-70-300-G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stiuskr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2018 at 12:09
Not any help for what already has been done but in the future you could also tag with a keyword when importing.
Rob Suits Jr.
a99M2 a99 a77 a700 KM7D|Min24/2.8 Min35/2 So50/1.4 So50/2.8 Min85/1.4G Tam90/2.8 Tam180/3.5|Tam17-50 CZ24-70G2 KM28-75D So70-200G1 So70-300G So70-400G1| SonyF60 AD200R2
 



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Phil Wood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2018 at 01:55
stiusker - not an ideal solution, but a practical one. I haven't worked out a sensible workflow with Lightroom as yet, I just import from the SD card and let Lightroom stick the files in directory for each day. I know this is deeply unsatisfactory long term - I need to do a lot of tagging!

josr - a far neater solution, but one that does not quite work. However, it looks like the techniques is the right one.

The script you give changes the wrong data field. It seems to be the Lens Info field that is used by Lightroom. This is a huge shame because Exiftools tells me that the camera stores the correct full name in the Lens Model and the Lens Type fields - "Minolta AF 28-105mm F3.5-4.5 xi", in the Lens Info it stores "28-105mm F3.5-4.5".

Which leads me to consider a script to run before every import that would set the Lens Info to equal the Lens Model. However, I now wonder if this would upset any other program that I might use to process the file? It seems unlikely, but they presumably have these three all but identical fields for some reason.

Of course this also implies that Lightroom will not distinguish between any two lenses with the same focal length(s) and aperture(s). For instance the five Minolta/Sony 75-300mm f4.5-5.6 zooms - and no one is going to convince me that they are all built to the same optical formula.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JosR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2018 at 07:51
Phil - AFTER import in Lightroom, the situation is indeed a bit different, because during import Lightroom copies the Exif:LensModel into XMP-aux:Lens and uses this from then on.

From one of my own images:
[ExifIFD]       0xa432 Lens Info                      : 16-80mm f/3.5-4.5
[ExifIFD]       0xa434 Lens Model                     : DT 16-80mm F3.5-4.5 ZA
[XMP-aux]            - Lens Info                      : 16-80mm f/3.5-4.5
[XMP-aux]            - Lens                           : DT 16-80mm F3.5-4.5 ZA

The ExifIFD ones were written by the camera, the XMP-aux ones were added by Lightroom.

So in your case, you probably also have to change the XMP Lens tag.
The above command then becomes:

   exiftool.exe -LensModel="Minolta AF 28-105mm F3.5-4.5 xi" -XMP:Lens="Minolta AF 28-105mm F3.5-4.5 xi" -if "$Sony:LensType# eq 26151" *.JPG

And after this change, make Lightroom re-synchronise or re-read the metadata from the file.

NB.
"LensInfo" (Exif or XMP) is definitely not the field to use, because this consists only of 4 numbers (the "mm" and "f/" are added by Exiftool on output)
Exif:LensModel and XMP:Lens are text fields.
Minolta Dynax 7 + 24-105/3.5-4.5 + 100-400/4.5-6.7 APO + 100/2.8 Macro D + 17-35/2.8-4
Sony A580 + Zeiss 16-80/3.5-4.5 + Sigma 10-20/3.5, Sony A850 + SAL-28-75 + SAL-70-300-G
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2018 at 09:39
Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:


Of course this also implies that Lightroom will not distinguish between any two lenses with the same focal length(s) and aperture(s). For instance the five Minolta/Sony 75-300mm f4.5-5.6 zooms - and no one is going to convince me that they are all built to the same optical formula.

Well the first one is mechanically different and may be different optically as well. I'd bet a few pounds that the other four are to the same optical design (except for lens coatings and electronics). Does the first one produce the same data as the others?
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, 5d, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Phil Wood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2018 at 10:10
Okay. Thanks for the update on LensInfo. I was looking at files that had been imported into Lightroom, and was not aware that Exiftool manipulated data for display purposes. The Exiftool display of data from my file (using "exiftool file.jpg") does not show any xmp fields as far as I can tell. I shall see if I can work out how to see what they contain before I try changing them.

I guess the key issue is which field Lightroom actually uses for ID purposes - which is, presumably, neither the Lens Model nor the Lens Type as these hold data that differs for the two lenses in question. The metadata displayed in Lightroom does not show the maker's name in the lens - it is identical to Exiftool's display of the LensInfo field. If LR is using Lens Info then I am well and truly stuck.

Googling around I have found a Lightroom plugin called LensTagger that claims to edit exif data from within LR - https://www.lenstagger.com/ - has anyone tried it? I guess I will give it a go as it seems to offer exactly what I want.
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