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Would it be possible to modify a lens to be a STF lens? |
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laguire
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Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 275 |
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Topic: Would it be possible to modify a lens to be a STF lens?Posted: 03 December 2006 at 09:00 |
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I tried printing a gradient pattern on a transparency sheet and cut out a circle then placed it next to the aperture on a 50/1.7, but the transparency layer and printing caused horrible loss of contrast and sharpness. Anyone have any ideas on how to get a high optical quality lens with a gradient?
Could you imagine a cheap 50/1.7 lens converted into a 50/1.7 STF lens just by the addition of a lens element? the 50/1.7 is fairly easy to take apart and the focal length would probably be easier to use for portraits than the 135stf. Plus it would be a brighter/wider aperture lens as well even more so allowing for great bokeh. Oh and of course autofocus. If we could find a source of high grade opaque glass and have it ground to a minus lens and pair it with a plus lens that is clear, that would create an STF effect. would just have to figure a way to mount them next to the aperture. Thoughts anyone? |
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laguire
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Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 275 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 09:08 |
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And another thought about the STF effect-- why hasn't minolta/sony developed a controlled logarithmic aperture closure during a shot to make all lenses Capable to have an STF effect (basically doing what the film maxxum 7 does without 7 separate shots). Has any tried to simulate this with a manual focus lens with a aperture ring (closing or opening the aperture while taking a shot?)
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gobs
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Joined: 25 August 2006 Location: Philippines Online Status: Offline Posts: 637 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 10:37 |
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Im not sure if you can get the perfect STF effect but i think you can do it with Photoshop.... and you can choose which part is in blur with the layer masks and gaussian blur combined...
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Gubbe
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Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Finland Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 10:45 |
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Those are interesting points. Incidentally that gradient on a transparency is precisely what I have tried as well. I've also thought of doing it on a polycarbonate like a cd-case, but I don't have a good printer for it nor have I found good paint or other dyes to make a good enough gradient pattern. My intention was to test it with cheap materials first, then use whatever method works best to paint a gradient on one of those glass plates you use with microscopes and cut it into shape.
I've also thought about that which you speak of as "controlled logarithmic aperture closure" and I concur that implementing this in firmware would be a great idea. I haven't come up with any good hacks to make it work with all shutter speeds, but figured that it could be possible to intentionally grease the blades to make them move slowly and then find the shutter speed that matches the closing speed of the blades. That would not be very useful though, since it would mandate a specific shutter speed AND aperture, thus leaving only the sensor sensitivity setting to control exposure. Implementing such a thing in software though might require hardware changes too, depending on how the diaphragm actuation is done. It might not be possible to control the aperture lever with enough precision and smoothness to create an STF effect without visible steps. Of course, the film 7's method wasn't smooth either, but I haven't seen the results from it. Creating new lens elements for the 50mm is an interesting idea, but sounds way too expensive and beyond the abilities of most of us so personally I've abandoned such thoughts. Here are a couple of unprocessed before/after shots: Without STF With gradient on transparency Adjusted fill light/shadows on this one a bit: EDIT: You can do other interesting things with the aperture besides just STF'ing it... ![]() Edited by Gubbe - 17 January 2008 at 19:15 |
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Arto Rantala
gubbe@sci.fi |
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Remko
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Joined: 25 June 2006 Location: Netherlands Online Status: Offline Posts: 426 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 10:59 |
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Mmm... STF = soft focus right?
I know this lens is supposed to be superb, as is the pricing. But in earlier times there were already several filters designed + sold that should create a similar effect. I think Cokin has filters that can create an approximate effect, and I own a diffuser filter (55mm that can do something similar). Is that a bit what you want your 50mm to change? Better use a screw-on filter than. It keeps your 50mm available as 50mm as well ;) |
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MD Rokkor: 16-500mm+ w/ X-700 or XD-7;
Minolta Dynax/Sony Alpha: 16-400mm+ w/ 7, 700si, A200 or KM5d; Plenty of accessories to choose from... A creative mind. |
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Gubbe
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Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Finland Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 11:14 |
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Nope, STF has nothing to do with soft focus or diffusion. STF is "Smooth Trans Focus" and it's about smoothing the edges of bokeh.
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Arto Rantala
gubbe@sci.fi |
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damian.bradley
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Joined: 29 November 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1290 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 15:41 |
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Sorry Gubbe, I'm not quite following what you're doing with that photoshop work. Can you explain the 'gradient on transparency' method a little?
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Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's lens // Portfolio
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Gubbe
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Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Finland Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 16:38 |
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There is no photoshop work.
Those JPEGs are straight from the camera, just resized. The third one had some adjustment to fill and shadows made in Picasa. That's it. About transparency... think overhead projectors and read laquire's posts again, including the topic of this thread. Edited by Gubbe - 03 December 2006 at 16:39 |
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Arto Rantala
gubbe@sci.fi |
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Cekari
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Joined: 15 August 2005 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 6724 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 16:48 |
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I don't get it, no PS, how did you do as the text say above the pic above? |
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My images at pbase
7D, a700 & a850 user. English is a funny language, seldom it spells the words like I do. /Lasse H |
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cjc181166
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Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1767 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 17:09 |
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I took some sample shots in STF mode on a Dynax 7 today. Samples taken with Min 50 f1.7, 135 f2.8 and berrcan at 70 and 210. I'll get the film processed this week and post the results. I'm interested to see what it looks like vs the stf lens.
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laguire
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Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 275 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 21:57 |
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So basically what I tried (and I assume Gubbe did the same) was printing this on a transparency:
Cut out the center. disassembled my 50/1.7 (was doing it to clean the oil of the apertures anyways), then pasted it right behind the aperture. My pictures did not look as nice as Gubbe's, so I took it out. Mine had too much contrast loss and softness even in the in focus areas. |
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Shaocaholica
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Joined: 14 July 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1880 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 22:09 |
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The problem with the non linear ND element in the STF is that it interferes with the AF sensor to the point where AF is impossible with the current system used by all SLR cameras. I was thinking that they could use a combination of linear polarizing filters, one group fixed and one that rotates 0-90 degrees. So the lens can turn the nonlinear ND group on and off and every step in between by rotating one of the polarizing filters. This way, the camera can AF with the "STF" turned off and as soon as you take the shot, the "STF" kicks in.
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laguire
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 22:41 |
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Remko, I the point is not to soften everything, it is to improve the bokeh (by definition on the out of focus area only) leaving the in focus area sharp. I searched for a filter that would have a gradient like the template above - note you would have to find a way to mount
it right next to the aperture not in front of the lens. The closest I could find is a spot filter - but that BLURS the periphery and keeps the center clear rather then the ideal element which would leave the center clear but DARKEN the periphery (basically a filter that causes a graduated vignetting - a reverse center filter) - which when placed near the aperture, would smooth the transition between in focused areas and out of focus area. Not sure what effect a spot filter would have if mounted by the aperture. Anyone have any idea? I'm away from home for a few months so I don't have the tools to take apart my 50 again now, anyone want to try? maybe get a smaller sized spot filter and place it next to the aperture? I don;t know the diameter of the inside of the barrel of the 50.. spot filter On further thought, the problem I foresee with these filters is that even if the diffusion works, they are not really graduated. If using a diopter type, then it would work for the out of focus direction in one direction (closer of furhter) and worse in the other. |
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laguire
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Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 275 |
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Posted: 03 December 2006 at 23:08 |
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