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what is the future of A mount?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 23:01
So forget the SLT and use the (technique of the) sensors of the A7/A9 series in a A-mount body. Please Sony....

Absolutely - an A9 and/or A7III and/or A6500 with an a-mount option - without mirror. That'd be almost perfect (in an oldfashioned bigger DSLR body).

For some people, it always comes back to removing the mirror as if paradise will unfold afterwards. Just as I asked at least once in the thread already, what is the motivation behind that? Is it just so you can gain back 1/2 stop, while losing the capability of more flexible AF options?
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote overeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 23:03
Originally posted by der dickgg der dickgg wrote:

The two sensor idea is not new; A300 and A350 worked with this technique. One sensor for live-view and one for taking pictures. We don't need a second sensor for AF, highspeed series or video nowadays anymore. So forget the SLT and use the (technique of the) sensors of the A7/A9 series in a A-mount body. Please Sony....

If you don't want two sensors, simply buy an E-mount camera. Period.

The register distance of A-mount enables a scheme with two sensors that can have capabilities that one sensor cannot have. I happen to have an A-350 (for 10 years now). It indeed has two sensors which made it an advanced camera at its time.
Today's microprocessor capabilities could enable a real-time co-operation between sensors that open possibilities that cannot be achieved by one sensor with today's technology. 10 years from now we will be talking about different capabilities based on more advanced technology than today.

Edited by overeema - 19 March 2018 at 23:06
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 23:14
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Is it just so you can gain back 1/2 stop, while losing the capability of more flexible AF options?


90% AF coverage vs 47%
1/2 stop more light

And last but not least: peace of mind, as mirrorless A-mount would lead a way into the future for A-mount, while at the moment that isn't so clear
A99, NEX-C3, HVL-F43M, more than enough glass (A, E, M42, MD)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote amsap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 23:29
overeema "happily live together (except in Australia)" and there I was planning the return of my A99II for upgrading!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 23:42
Originally posted by mike77 mike77 wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Is it just so you can gain back 1/2 stop, while losing the capability of more flexible AF options?

90% AF coverage vs 47%

You can already get that without removing the mirror, as in the A99II.

1/2 stop more light

Yes, we know.

And last but not least: peace of mind, as mirrorless A-mount would lead a way into the future for A-mount, while at the moment that isn't so clear

Some of us already have peace of mind. Some of us will lose peace of mind if our existing screw drive lenses, in particular, fail to work as well without the SLT mirror.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote whiteheat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2018 at 23:44
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

The dedicated AF sensor allows cross sensors, on sensor phase detect doesn't. The AF of the A99m2 is -4EV, the A9 tops out on -3EV. There is a real advantage in using a dedicated phase detect sensor next to the on-sensor one. Please Sony, don't give in...
Sure, higher figures are always better in theory, but what difference of 'real significance' does that make in the real world? For example, people, reviewers and pundits etc, have been waxing lyrical over the AF speed and accuracy of the latest crop of A7's. In fact, so good is it (apparently), that many reviewers can't get it to go wrong in quite challenging circumstances and environments. Well, if the A7x/A9 AF is that good, the fact that the A99II has an extra -1EV advantage over the A9 is somewhat superfluous. Or have I just got wrong end of the stick in that in real world conditions that extra -1EV is going to make all the difference for most people, most of the time? Just an open question.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 00:07
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by mike77 mike77 wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Is it just so you can gain back 1/2 stop, while losing the capability of more flexible AF options?

90% AF coverage vs 47%

You can already get that without removing the mirror, as in the A99II.

1/2 stop more light

Yes, we know.

And last but not least: peace of mind, as mirrorless A-mount would lead a way into the future for A-mount, while at the moment that isn't so clear

Some of us already have peace of mind. Some of us will lose peace of mind if our existing screw drive lenses, in particular, fail to work as well without the SLT mirror.



Yes, with the A99II you can get 47% but not 90%.

As for screw-drive: is there any reliable info according to which they wouldn't work with on-sensor PDAF now and in the future?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote whiteheat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 00:08
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by mike77 mike77 wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Is it just so you can gain back 1/2 stop, while losing the capability of more flexible AF options?

90% AF coverage vs 47%

You can already get that without removing the mirror, as in the A99II.

1/2 stop more light

Yes, we know.


And last but not least: peace of mind, as mirrorless A-mount would lead a way into the future for A-mount, while at the moment that isn't so clear

[quote]Some of us already have peace of mind. Some of us will lose peace of mind if our existing screw drive lenses, in particular, fail to work as well without the SLT mirror.


Ah, but that 1/2 stop more light is something we used to have. Now it's been taken away from us. We (most 'normal' photographers) understand that our IQ degrades with loss of light, ergo, less light reaching the sensor equals a potential reduction in IQ (not always, perhaps almost never) and the reverse being also true, id est, more light equates to better IQ. Remember, in most cases we are talking about perception rather than reality. That said, from a design philosophy perspective, something that obviously reduces a benefit is going to cause continual angst in the community. A design solution that does not involve a degradative feature is always much preferable and generally speaking, any such feature that is perceived as being degradative should be removed or redesigned to remove that negative perception, as soon as possible.

What Mike77 says has merit. It may not actually be the case but it would calm some very ruffled feathers. Plus any solution so designed should cater for legacy lenses. That said, the future is mirrorless and Sony already has a mirrorless system. I don't see them developing another one anytime soon, especially if it competes with their current mirrorless system.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote amsap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 01:06

whiteheat " I don't see them developing another one anytime soon, especially if it competes with their current mirrorless system."

Their ads show that in Aus anyway we will compete with anything :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PMac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 01:15
Originally posted by mike77 mike77 wrote:



And last but not least: peace of mind, as mirrorless A-mount would lead a way into the future for A-mount, while at the moment that isn't so clear


This thread is now running at 48 pages and wont die for precisely this reason. I was watching some youtube reviews of the A99ii recently and while they were all pretty positive about the camera every single one basically said that no matter how good the camera is its hard to recommend to anyone other than an existing a mount user due to uncertaintly of the e vs a mount.

I suspect the issue isnt whether the a mount retains a mirror or loses it or even reverts back to a 'normal' mirror/optical vf. Since the advent of the e mount the a mount has just plugged on away doing what it was doing - this gives the impression its a bit of a zombie mount. Any clear change in a mount direction either towards or away from the e mount would demonstrate that it is being actively and purposefully managed, not just plodding along waiting for the end.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 149113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 01:43
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

   
Some of us already have peace of mind. Some of us will lose peace of mind if our existing screw drive lenses, in particular, fail to work as well without the SLT mirror.


This is probably going to be borderline blasphemous but I can't think of a single Minolta/Sony screw drive lens that either hasn't already been done better with a newer SSM model, or can't be improved upon in the future by introduction of a new lens design based on SSM. Everyone goes right to the 135mm or the 200mm as the use case for keeping screw drives lens compatibility but a lot of people that shoot with the 135mm lens shoot MF so does it really matter? And the 200mm is nice but it's comes up short against the latest 70-200mm 2.8 zooms with SSM in just about every area.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote whiteheat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 01:44
Originally posted by PMac PMac wrote:

Originally posted by mike77 mike77 wrote:



And last but not least: peace of mind, as mirrorless A-mount would lead a way into the future for A-mount, while at the moment that isn't so clear


This thread is now running at 48 pages and wont die for precisely this reason. I was watching some youtube reviews of the A99ii recently and while they were all pretty positive about the camera every single one basically said that no matter how good the camera is its hard to recommend to anyone other than an existing a mount user due to uncertaintly of the e vs a mount.

I suspect the issue isnt whether the a mount retains a mirror or loses it or even reverts back to a 'normal' mirror/optical vf. Since the advent of the e mount the a mount has just plugged on away doing what it was doing - this gives the impression its a bit of a zombie mount. Any clear change in a mount direction either towards or away from the e mount would demonstrate that it is being actively and purposefully managed, not just plodding along waiting for the end.

A mount is dying for sure and will die officially at some point in the future. That future is determined by the existing A mount base. It would be reasonable to assume that 'new' A mount users are either negligible or non existent. Therefore, the continued existence of A mount depends on how long its existing user base is a commercially viable exercise for Sony. The more of us that give up photography, move to another manufacturer or switch to E mount, hastens the day when A mount will officially cease to be. The rate at which E mount is developing, it may not be too long before most if not all the advantages of A mount are eroded or even surpassed by E mount. When that happens, the switch over of A mount users to E mount will increase. I am almost positive that at some point, I will switch to E mount. Because I know I am going to do that, I am not investing in any more A mount gear and am selling off any superfluous gear even now - in fact I have ridden myself of many A mount lenses over the last few years already as part of a natural rationalisation project. So, the death of A mount then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This all said, why sweat it? It's going to happen at some point so there is no point in crying in to your beers or tearing your beards. As I mentioned previously here or in another thread, keep your A mount stuff for as long as it will go. In the meantime, think about where you want to go brandwise should the day come when you need to replace A mount gear. So, it may mean saving now to get what you want/need x number of years down the track. Yes, I know it is easy to say in theory but the reality may be different, but that is a simple, perhaps simplistic, way of keeping yourself at peace.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 01:47
Originally posted by mike77 mike77 wrote:

Yes, with the A99II you can get 47% but not 90%.

What makes you think the presence of the SLT mirror is responsible for that, or that removing it will make a difference?

As for screw-drive: is there any reliable info according to which they wouldn't work with on-sensor PDAF now and in the future?

I didn't say they wouldn't work. Is there any reliable info that they will work as well? That's what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by whiteheat whiteheat wrote:

Ah, but that 1/2 stop more light is something we used to have. Now it's been taken away from us.

Tsk, tsk ... First, when was the last time you got something without giving up something? The SLT mirror allows capabilities that no other technology allows. Second, under what circumstances does 1/2 stop of light make or break a photo? That's the difference between ISO 100 and 140. Never have so many moaned so loudly about so little.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2018 at 01:53
Originally posted by PMac PMac wrote:

I suspect the issue isnt whether the a mount retains a mirror or loses it or even reverts back to a 'normal' mirror/optical vf. Since the advent of the e mount the a mount has just plugged on away doing what it was doing - this gives the impression its a bit of a zombie mount. Any clear change in a mount direction either towards or away from the e mount would demonstrate that it is being actively and purposefully managed, not just plodding along waiting for the end.

You think the A99II did not represent a significant advance? But somehow the removal of the mirror will represent something glorious?

I just can't get behind either of those ideas.
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