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what is the future of A mount?

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Atom Ant Oz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Atom Ant Oz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2018 at 13:25
Originally posted by SnowFella SnowFella wrote:

Got to ask, where did you get yours from? Currently looking at pulling the trigger on one but Sony's are like hens teeth here downunder

I bought mine at the end of June (during EOFY sales) from DigiDirect. The Elizabeth St suite always has a few in stock, so there shouldn't be any problem getting one from your nearest branch in Sydney.

Sony AU lists the price as $4599 (the RRP has just increased!) but I bought mine for almost $1k less.
Sony A99ii | A77ii
10-20mm | 16-105mm | 24-70mm Z | 24-105mm D | 70-200mm G | 100-300mm APO D | 70-400mm G |
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2018 at 09:11
Originally posted by C_N_RED_AGAIN C_N_RED_AGAIN wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if Nikon tries to slowly ween thier customers over to mirrorless.


I don't think that can be a slow process. Canon and Nikon surely see their DSLR technical dominance slipping away as their mirrorless competitors become more sophisticated. In order to counter that, they each have to introduce a new mirrorless line which will need substantial investment and a lot of new lenses. Sure, they will make adapters, but their old lenses aren't going to perform well enough on a mirrorless body to maximise their capability.

To make mirrorless a success (for them) Canon and Nikon will not only have to put a lot of money into it, but a lot of marketting as well. That will inevitably cut into sales of their DSLRs, and they will end up in exactly the same position that Sony are in with A mount. Therefore, Canon and Nikon's new mirrorless range cannot simply be an additional line - it must surely replace their DSLRs as the flagship or fail to compete with the existing mirrorless brands.

Kevin Raber of Luminous Landscape puts it rather well in his video clip from Sonyalpharumours. It will be war ...

Let the war begin!

Edited by Miranda F - 06 August 2018 at 09:14
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, 5d, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Cliff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2018 at 16:18
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

There needs to be a lot of computer power to get this in real time and at, say, four stops. But probably, at some time, it will be possible.


Each axis of movement presents its own issues. I expect we'll get electronic IS as each is resolved. Simplest will come first, for example rotation around the sensor plane axis. That and some other modes are within today's capabilities. What it takes is a sensor with enough real estate to remap pixels without falling off the edge. A FF sensor in an APS-C camera could probably do that. Pixel remapping algorithms are pretty straightforward and are simpler than mechanical solutions to some modes of stabilization. They do need to be fast.

If other modes require changes in focus across the sensor they present a significantly more difficult problem. If we just had the capability to focus individual pixels on the sensor we could be free of IS issues and the expense of exotic lenses. The mount wars would be OBE (overtaken by events).

OTOH, maybe embracing and expanding mechanical in body IS is the path forward. Extend the movement range of the sensor forward and back and use it to focus too. That would eliminate paying for focus motors in every lens and simplify the electronics/mechanics required to do IS and auto focus in separate mechanical systems.

In any event we can expect the rate of change we have experienced in the last decade+ to continue unabated. The entry of CaNikon to the mirrorless market can only accelerate it. Better stuff and cheaper, what's not to like?
ContaxRF, Min7000i, Sony A100, A65, Nex5T, A7ii, A6500. 2 many lenses, mostly ordinary Minolta & 3rd party A, MC/D, other mf, vintage Vivitars & cats, LA-EA2,3,4 E16-50&55-210mm
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Cliff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2018 at 17:24
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Let the war begin!

You're absolutely right.

The analogy I would use is IBM and the introduction of new technology in the PC. Almost 40 years ago IBM dominated the IT business with legacy (mini and mainframe) products released on a cycle that maximized their profits. That is very like the position Nikon and Canon occupy in the camera business today.

IBM tried to manage introduction of new PC features/performance to maximize profits and to protect their legacy products. When they did that competitors ate their lunch in the PC world and sales plummeted. IBM responded by introducing competitive PC products (think PC AT and PC3270 terminals), but those ate holes in both PC profits and their legacy products. They phrased it at the time as "taking a dollar out of one pocket and putting 75 cents back in the other pocket." They ceased doing that and the cycle started over again as they lost PC market share to better, cheaper competitive products.

The solution IBM found was to largely get out of the hardware business, and IBM now is mostly a software and services company. Nikon and Canon do not have that luxury. Canon can survive with its diverse product line, but the handwriting is on the wall for Nikon. They have stalled as long as they can, but are now entering a war that is the death knell for their traditional DSLR products. The harder they work to be competitive in mirrorless the faster their legacy DSLR product lines will collapse.

Sony started with disruptive technology in A mount with in body stabilization and SLT. When that failed to crack the CaNikon stranglehold they tried mirrorless E mount. Sony bridged the transition with lens adapters so A mount users could migrate easily without immediately buying a whole new compliment of lenses, or doing without until E mount matured (that is why I am hoping for an LA-EA5 as mirrorless competition heats up and expect we will see better Canon and Nikon E mount adapters). We will get a very real measure of how well Nikon has learned from Sony's example if there is a Nikon adapter from F to their new mirrorless mount. It will also be telling if they avoid foolishness like making it impossible to get a shutter to release on an MF or adapted lens as they have done to segment their DSLR body lines.

Yes Miranda F, "Let the war begin!" Sony is in a heck of a lot stronger position today than the small PC makers were 40 years ago. I do not envy either Nikon or Canon, they are in a very tough position with dim prospects that it will get a lot better.

It will be interesting to see what tricks Sony has up its sleeve. A7Riii and A7iii were mostly cobbled up out of existing technology. My bet is we will be pleasantly surprised with what they have engineered in the almost complete Moore cycle since the A9 was introduced. My bet is they were not whistling Dixie when they described the A7iii as their "base" camera.




Edited by Cliff - 06 August 2018 at 17:30
ContaxRF, Min7000i, Sony A100, A65, Nex5T, A7ii, A6500. 2 many lenses, mostly ordinary Minolta & 3rd party A, MC/D, other mf, vintage Vivitars & cats, LA-EA2,3,4 E16-50&55-210mm
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2018 at 10:35
Originally posted by Cliff Cliff wrote:

Each axis of movement presents its own issues. I expect we'll get electronic IS as each is resolved. Simplest will come first, for example rotation around the sensor plane axis.

Point and shoot cameras have had that for years, and I think that smartphone cameras have it too, judging by how little blur I get shooting in dull light.

Originally posted by Cliff Cliff wrote:

OTOH, maybe embracing and expanding mechanical in body IS is the path forward. Extend the movement range of the sensor forward and back and use it to focus too. That would eliminate paying for focus motors in every lens and simplify the electronics/mechanics required to do IS and auto focus in separate mechanical systems.

The snag with that is long-focus lenses need a lot more sensor movement than is practicable, though it can work for short focus lenses.
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, 5d, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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overeema View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote overeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2018 at 16:55
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:


Point and shoot cameras have had that for years, and I think that smartphone cameras have it too, judging by how little blur I get shooting in dull light.

The snag with that is long-focus lenses need a lot more sensor movement than is practicable, though it can work for short focus lenses.

Obviously the smaller the sensor size the lower the engineering challenges for IS. You won't get nice bokeh from small sensor camera's.
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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2018 at 18:16
What point and shoot camera has electronic IS for stills? I know for video, but not for stills.

I do not know what phone you own, but several phones have optical image stabilisation, like the Samsung S9, Huawei Mate 10pro, Google Pixel, iPhone X and I could go on, but no electronic IS for stills.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AutumnRose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2018 at 03:11
I just hope Sony doesn't blow it's lead with mirrorless cameras and that they have learned their lesson on the lack of marketing. It would be a shame for them to lose the war they started.
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Cliff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cliff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2018 at 16:53
https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-takes-over-as-no-1-in-u-s-full-frame-cameras-launches-historic-be-alpha-campaign/

Sony has taken the #1 spot in FF in the US. Amazing success for Sony's "disruptive technology".

More good news is that includes A mount. A rising tide lifts all boats.

I'd like to see A bodies that are native E with a bundled LA-EA5 to handle all A mount lenses. That would provide a larger body to appeal to DSLR users and a platform to support adapters for Canon and Nikon glass that would facilitate migration. The A99iii would become a 1st string player on the Sony dinosaur slayers team, and it would support A mount while enhancing convergence of the Alpha brand.
ContaxRF, Min7000i, Sony A100, A65, Nex5T, A7ii, A6500. 2 many lenses, mostly ordinary Minolta & 3rd party A, MC/D, other mf, vintage Vivitars & cats, LA-EA2,3,4 E16-50&55-210mm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote C_N_RED_AGAIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2018 at 18:21
Wow. Impresive.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jackal2008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2018 at 18:59
Originally posted by Cliff Cliff wrote:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-takes-over-as-no-1-in-u-s-full-frame-cameras-launches-historic-be-alpha-campaign/

Sony has taken the #1 spot in FF in the US. Amazing success for Sony's "disruptive technology".

More good news is that includes A mount. A rising tide lifts all boats.

I'd like to see A bodies that are native E with a bundled LA-EA5 to handle all A mount lenses. That would provide a larger body to appeal to DSLR users and a platform to support adapters for Canon and Nikon glass that would facilitate migration. The A99iii would become a 1st string player on the Sony dinosaur slayers team, and it would support A mount while enhancing convergence of the Alpha brand.


Very interesting approach. Probably the laea5 would just a mirror and some chips, no more motor to drive the lens, since it would be simpler to reuse a99 design. One slim adapter and support both amount and emount
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