FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

why Minolta color meter so expensive?

Page  <12
Author
Okapi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 11 January 2007
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Posts: 1031
Post Options Post Options   Quote Okapi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2011 at 00:31
I think the title of your post was not exactly what you ask, and it's because that a lot of Dyxumers are going in the Minolta meter way and think the colorimeter has the same use as the different calibration systems.
The use of the colorimeter is not exactly what you need for your apn, but to know the exact color of a target as said Vitor, they are a lot of paint sellers who use it with an exact value of your color to make the same to match for your use.
It's more a precision measuring tool than a photograph help, it was the best produced in his price range, built like a tank and very precise despite his age.
Excuse my bad english please!
α700, α900, α77, NEX7, and some white lenses…
My favourite pictures
 



Back to Top
romke View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Knowledge Base Contributor

Joined: 03 September 2009
Country: Netherlands
Location: Putte
Status: Offline
Posts: 3007
Post Options Post Options   Quote romke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2011 at 10:20
the reason for color meters being much more expensive then exposure meters most likely is the fact that they used to be/are sold in very small numbers compared to exposure meters.

The Minolta types had a very good reputation and thus still are expensive.

Whether they are of much use in this digital age might be debated. The WB can always be corrected later on, especially when shooting RAW. One of the cheaper WB control gadgets (spheres, cards) do it just as well in most situations and are far cheaper then a "real" meter.

There is no reason to go to the trouble dialing in a specific white balance. It usually is easier to take a shot with and a shot without a "true white" item and proceed from the eyedropper reading of the "white" object when PP.
Back to Top
superx2won View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 14 January 2008
Country: Malaysia
Location: Malaysia
Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
Post Options Post Options   Quote superx2won Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 09:18
Originally posted by vitor vitor wrote:

A color meter will help when proper color balance is critical. This is true if you shoot with film or digital. Imagine you are doing a product shot where the correct color is essential, or that the color is actually the product.

If shooting with mixed light, its important to use gels on the strobes/flashes to balance properly. Its common to use CTO (Orange) filter   on a flash to get proper balance with the ambient tungsten light.

The Minolta meters where the industry reference. Yes, minolta was good at several things, including light measurement.

They where so good that they made that all their lenses produce the same color output. Making life easier for those that needed a consistent representation between lenses.


i like to shoot product for web used.. i would like to buy a color meter to help me to understand the lighting condition.

A900 + A65 + KM 7D + Maxxum 9 + S16-105
Learn repairing Minolta lens --> Join my Photography-lab.com blog for step by step guide
Back to Top
zfcentral View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 28 December 2008
Country: Sweden
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Posts: 1738
Post Options Post Options   Quote zfcentral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 09:23
A color meter won't help you understand lightning conditions perse it will help you narrow down the color of the light.

Very few people need a colormeter... and for product shots on the web it's a lost cause ....-) Considering you have no control of what monitor is used to view the content.


Back to Top
vitor View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 10 August 2006
Country: Portugal
Location: Lisbon
Status: Offline
Posts: 1851
Post Options Post Options   Quote vitor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 09:42
To make my statements above more clear have a look at this
info.

If you look at the first image, you will see the condition where having a color meter is the only way to work. You can decide to turn off some lights, put some gels on the flash to match one of the sources, etc.
In the scenario above you can't fix these later in PP.

They are common when doing some interior portraits or real estate photos, where you need to balance several ambient light sources.

The condition described above is not very common when shooting products.
Since your goal is product shots in controlled light right? You can use the method described by romke.

Edited by vitor - 05 March 2011 at 09:42
Back to Top
Okapi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 11 January 2007
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Posts: 1031
Post Options Post Options   Quote Okapi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 10:04
Sorry, Vitor, but I don't understood why and how use a Minolta color meter in the link you give, a colorimeter is ONLY made to measure one color, not a WB, with different lightning sources, you have to measure each item on each color if you use a colorimeter, and give that later to your printer.

On your example in the link, you have to make a shot on a calibrated target in each point if you want a real WB, and after that use the Adobe DNG software to make a profile for your camera with exactly the good repro of the colors.calibrated target

When you made commercial picture, here you need a color meter, the red on the picture of your kitchen robot must be the same as on the real thing when printed in the publicity catalog.
But it's not a problem of WB, just a problem of printing quality.

I made a false typing, for colorimeter you have to read color meter as I wrote later in my post.

Edited by Okapi - 05 March 2011 at 12:39
Excuse my bad english please!
α700, α900, α77, NEX7, and some white lenses…
My favourite pictures
 



Back to Top
AlphaMan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 26 August 2008
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Cumbria, UK
Status: Offline
Posts: 1592
Post Options Post Options   Quote AlphaMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 11:28
Lets not get colorimeter and color meter confused.

Personally I think that there are some (and only a few) occasions where a color meter would very useful. For example, there are some lighting conditions where there are mixed light sources where a color meter and some gels would help. I have done a lot of industrial photography and Sodium Discharge lamps commonly used in very large industrial buildings are the pits! This is especially true when there are fluorescent tubes and ordinary light bulbs all in the same space. Under conditions like these, a good color meter is great (I use an old Gossen one).

For most occasions, using the various camera white balance functions are perfectly good enough.

I think that the OP raises a good point and that is that the white balance system in the Sony camera (in common with others) isn't absolutely perfect and I have had some minor niggles with it myself (studio work with a white background can be problematic, especially when photographing very pale people with red hair, for example).
Back to Top
vitor View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 10 August 2006
Country: Portugal
Location: Lisbon
Status: Offline
Posts: 1851
Post Options Post Options   Quote vitor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 11:29
Originally posted by Okapi Okapi wrote:

Sorry, Vitor, but I don't understood why and how use a Minolta colorimeter in the link you give

The link was to show an image with different light colors.

The why: so you can balance different light sources. You do this by either placing gels on the light sources or turning the light off so it doesn't contribute to the scene.

The how: Measure each light source individually as you do with a flash meter.

Originally posted by Okapi Okapi wrote:

, a colorimeter is ONLY made to measure one color, not a WB

I never made such a statement. WB is not the same as color balance or color matching.

Originally posted by Okapi Okapi wrote:

with different lightning sources, you have to measure each item on each color if you use a colorimeter

Correct, as you do with a flash meter.

Originally posted by Okapi Okapi wrote:

and give that later to your printer.

This is true if you give to the printer the last reading of the scene with all light sources contributing to the image. This step is to allow the printer to know what was the color of the scene.

Originally posted by Okapi Okapi wrote:

On your example in the link, you have to make a shot on a calibrated target in each point if you want a real WB, and after that use the Adobe DNG software to make a profile for your camera with exactly the good repro of the colors.calibrated target

What you describe is the same as the response above about giving the reading to the printer. This is the final step and must not be confused with balancing/matching the color of multiple light sources.

Originally posted by Okapi Okapi wrote:

When you made commercial picture, here you need a color meter, the red on the picture of your kitchen robot must be the same as on the real thing when printed in the publicity catalog.
But it's not a problem of WB, just a problem of printing quality.


I never made the statement of WB=color balance.

Edited by vitor - 05 March 2011 at 11:31
Back to Top
Okapi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 11 January 2007
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Posts: 1031
Post Options Post Options   Quote Okapi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 13:20
I think Alpahaman answers perfectly, it's not easy for me to explain in english what I want to say, the use in industrial process was the principal need of a Color Meter, Minolta has made a more precise item, the The Minolta Croma meter for industrial process like painting coloration, the Color Meter was if I take the original manual was made for :
The basic function of the Color Meter II is to provide data that will allow selection of proper filtration to color-correct the light for a specific film.



Then it's usable specifically with a media which has a specific characteristic reaction with some lightning condition, and with a sensor, you have no reference for using the information directly, as said in the manual:
The Color Meter II employs three high-sensitive silicon photo cells to make simultaneous measurement of both the blue/red and green/red light ratios, and light-balancing and color-compensating indexes are immediately displayed in digital form etc…


Then, how did you use those informations with your electronic camera?
Excuse my bad english please!
α700, α900, α77, NEX7, and some white lenses…
My favourite pictures
Back to Top
vitor View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 10 August 2006
Country: Portugal
Location: Lisbon
Status: Offline
Posts: 1851
Post Options Post Options   Quote vitor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 14:22
Originally posted by Okapi Okapi wrote:

Then it's usable specifically with a media which has a specific characteristic reaction with some lightning condition, and with a sensor, you have no reference for using the information directly, as said in the manual:
The Color Meter II employs three high-sensitive silicon photo cells to make simultaneous measurement of both the blue/red and green/red light ratios, and light-balancing and color-compensating indexes are immediately displayed in digital form etc…


Then, how did you use those informations with your electronic camera?


The color meter gives you the readout in Kelvins, you just set your WB to that value (assuming your camera as that option).

But as I said before, changing the camera reading is the last step and can be done using other methods.

Correcting the light source its only possible using a color meter.
If you use two different flash brands the color can be different.
Some (cheap) flashes change their color with different power settings.
To correct that you will need to place some gels in front of them to make them have the same Kelvin color temperature.

The meter will also tell you the amount of correction need between them.
Back to Top
Okapi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 11 January 2007
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Posts: 1031
Post Options Post Options   Quote Okapi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2011 at 00:18
Ok, I understand how you use it now, but it's the same job as measuring with your apn or not?

It was not clear to me because when it's important, I always use the grey chart as a minimum, and the colored chart when possible, and always made a profile adjustment with the Adobe soft, I never think to a different light possibility on the flashes, I always use the same flashes to be precise, then never seen a measurable difference or what I can see on picture.

Hope you understands my english…
Excuse my bad english please!
α700, α900, α77, NEX7, and some white lenses…
My favourite pictures
Back to Top
Dyxum main page >  Forum Home > Equipment forums > Other photographic topics Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.

Monitor calibration strip

Dyxum.com - Home of the alpha system photographer

Find us on Google+

Feel free to contact us if needed.

Links monetized by viglink VigLink