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E-mount electronic protocol reverse engineering

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Entropy512 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Entropy512 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2019 at 23:10
Originally posted by bostwickenator bostwickenator wrote:

Geez I think I need to start writing a monthly progress report or something so I don't keep missing things. It's such a sprawling project it's hard to keep all the bits straight. I'll go back and review what we got from the MC-11.

LOL. You're definitely not to blame for that one, I'm 90% certain that observation from leegong predates your involvement by many months, if not more than a year.

Can't believe I started this back in 2015 or so... Obviously I've taken some VERY long breaks in between!
 



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Entropy512 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Entropy512 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2019 at 23:12
Originally posted by bostwickenator bostwickenator wrote:

Ok well today I pulled apart an "AccPro Canon EF Lens to Sony E Mount Adapter" looks like they remembered to set the lock fuse as well since I get 0000 0101 0202 etc back from avrdude when I read the flash, was worth a shot. Images here https://imgur.com/a/Hqcera1

Yeah, you'd expect that the people who couldn't have bothered to use something more powerful than an ATMega8 wouldn't have cared that much about protecting things from readback, but FOTGA was the same way.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote doncharisma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2019 at 16:16
Yongnuo have a firmware update for their adaptor, don't know if it's helpful to you guys :

http://yongnuoebay.com/gw/yn_adatper_EF_FE_II_fm_V04.zip

Found on :

http://www.hkyongnuo.com/e-detaily.php?ID=471
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Entropy512 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Entropy512 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 17:36
So, one of the reasons I moved my thread here in the first place was the ability to edit posts that have been replied to... And I just realized based on rereading a bunch of the posts on the first page of this thread that I have failed to do so for quite a few of the original posts!

I am busy this week preparing for a family event, I'm hoping that early next week I'll have time to:
1) Update my sigrok protocol decoder to PD API v3, allowing me to resume collecting and analyzing data
2) Edit a bunch of the posts at the beginning of the thread to reflect new discoveries, most notably:
a) The byte I previously thought was a "message ID" is actually "message length" and individual message IDs are within the payload
b) All of leegong's discoveries regarding potential meaning of certain message IDs

At least for the time being, https://github.com/Entropy512/emount_tools/blob/master/emount_plotdata.py and https://github.com/LexOptical/E-Mount are likely to continue to have the most up-to-date known information, and in cases where information in those repos conflicts with earlier posts here, the information in those repos takes precedence.
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bostwickenator View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bostwickenator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2019 at 20:27
I'd really love if we could work on the protocol in a document it's more maintainable. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iw54nzrF0bzQgLINpcP9F8Odd0N5cd7LjlwCDPTNZK0/edit
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Entropy512 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Entropy512 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2019 at 21:15
I took a look - you've found a lot of good stuff since I last touched anything.

I'm not a huge fan of Google Docs... As far as more maintainable, I'm wondering if Markdown format (or Github's extended GFM - https://github.github.com/gfm/ and https://help.github.com/en/articles/about-writing-and-formatting-on-github for more references) might be ideal - and thus anyone could submit an edit using a Github pull request.

More importantly, though - good news - I FINALLY updated my Sigrok protocol decoder to their new PD API. There are still some cleanups (potential performance improvements too) I need to make, but it seems to be working at least as well as it was before now. I also updated my data plotter to handle some small changes to sigrok's annotation output

https://github.com/Entropy512/libsigrokdecode
https://github.com/Entropy512/emount_tools
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote bostwickenator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2019 at 01:00
Markdown works for me I'll transfer the content of that doc into a new Markdown files and start a GitHub organization for this project we can host the common files in.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Entropy512 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2019 at 02:49
Originally posted by bostwickenator bostwickenator wrote:

Markdown works for me I'll transfer the content of that doc into a new Markdown files and start a GitHub organization for this project we can host the common files in.

I'm in the process of retaking quite a few captures and organizing them.

New discovery: SEL24105G + A7M3 uses a whole PILE of new messages, and frequently sets the message type to 3 (instead of the usual 1=normal and 2=init).

sony_emount-1: 2.326011, Plen: 0014, ftype: 03, snum: 00, speed: 1500000.0, rxtx: 1, extra: 12, csum: 0188, data: "43 E4 06 44 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 "
sony_emount-1: 2.326471, Plen: 0010, ftype: 03, snum: 00, speed: 1500000.0, rxtx: 0, extra: 0, csum: 0337, data: "43 E3 FF FF 00 00 00 00 "

Bytes 2/3 of command 0x43 are motor position, it's seen in the next message 6 back from the lens. Not sure what the first byte after the message ID is.

It looks like command 0x43 is not synchronized with the BODY_VD_LENS pulses, and has its own sequence number embedded within the command (first byte after the message ID)

There's also status 0x42 seen, ????? what it means.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Leegong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 13 minutes ago at 11:21
Just download Sigma E-mount 35mm F1.4 LensFirmware and 50mm F1.4 LensFirmwareV2 ,
decrypt them successfully.
But no idea about MCU model number yet .   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 42 minutes ago at 11:52
Originally posted by Entropy512 Entropy512 wrote:


New discovery: SEL24105G + A7M3 uses a whole PILE of new messages, and frequently sets the message type to 3 (instead of the usual 1=normal and 2=init).

The 24-105G is one of the newer 20 FPS lenses. It is likely that Sony updated the communication.

https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/support/ilc/products/ilce9/continuousshooting/en/index.html#c_lens
Sony A68 A77II A6000 A7II LA-EA3 LA-EA4 MC-11
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Entropy512 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 29 minutes ago at 15:05
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

Originally posted by Entropy512 Entropy512 wrote:


New discovery: SEL24105G + A7M3 uses a whole PILE of new messages, and frequently sets the message type to 3 (instead of the usual 1=normal and 2=init).

The 24-105G is one of the newer 20 FPS lenses. It is likely that Sony updated the communication.

https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/support/ilc/products/ilce9/continuousshooting/en/index.html#c_lens

Yeah, it would be very interesting if the new messages are ones that define whether or not async is seen.

One thing I want to start doing is tracking the "E-mount version" seen in EXIF for various lenses/bodies - and also what messages and fields are/are not seen for a given version. (Also where that version information lies during the initialization sequence...)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote owenn01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 18 minutes ago at 15:16
Okay - I'm not scared of asking this question: one learns though asking the dumb question others fear to ask:

What , in simple terms, is this all about; and where does this take you in terms of either a finished activity/product/action etc? It all looks very interesting (and technical!) - but what will it deliver for you?

There - asked it and not even a tiny bit embarrassed   

Thanks and best regards, Neil

PS. Don't forget - keep it simple for me!!
My Mantra: "Comment on other's work as you would wish to have yours commented upon". Go on - it's fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Entropy512 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 11 minutes ago at 18:23
Originally posted by owenn01 owenn01 wrote:

Okay - I'm not scared of asking this question: one learns though asking the dumb question others fear to ask:

What , in simple terms, is this all about; and where does this take you in terms of either a finished activity/product/action etc? It all looks very interesting (and technical!) - but what will it deliver for you?

There - asked it and not even a tiny bit embarrassed   

Thanks and best regards, Neil

PS. Don't forget - keep it simple for me!!

I think it varies between the various people involved, but it happens that there's a common interest of understanding E-mount protocols and even having some reference implementations of it.

In my case - I've been unhappy with the state of EF adapters for ages. It's my opinion that we could be doing MUCH better than we are now. Look at what the MC-11 has achieved for SGV lenses. Things that could be done "better" though:
1) Officially support AF-C. Funny thing is, this is one of the only cases where the MC-11 works well and it's officially unsupported!
2) Make AF-S better - MC-11 was driving many lens motors at full speed which breaks native AF-S (hunting and overshoot). It got better with a firmware update at the long end of the 17-70, but the wide end is still way too fast. User tuning would be a huge benefit, or at least clear and concise documentation of "lens X has been attempted to be tuned but we hit the limits"
3) Officially support non-SGV lenses with native functionality. Metabones sort-of does this, but has the position for certain important features of "this doesn't work because we don't know the optical formula of the lens". Thing is, such aspects of the lens CAN be profiled in the field. Look at how the lensfun distortion/CA database is populated for example. There are documented methods for determining exit pupil distance (which is likely the critical item for off-center PDAF). The MC-11 proves that storing a table of "additional lens data" is feasible for an adapter. The problem for an adapter where this information is "baked in" with each firmware release is that the table would be huge - so why not have it populated with a tuning tool and only containing the lenses a user owns/uses?

As to whether I'll ever get there - who knows. I've got a lot of other projects I work on, and those pesky EF spring contacts are Bad News for someone as inept as I am on the mechanical side of things.

bostwickenator (Alex)'s "E-mount film body" project makes the rounds every once in a while. There are some fun challenges there, it remains to be seen whether E mount lens motors are repeatable enough for this to actually work, or if they're designed to fundamentally be part of a closed-loop AF control system and won't work well open-loop. I know he has a Voigtlander manual lens, for that lens just having aperture control would be a big deal and would probably work well on his body.

I think leegong has in the past been involved with projects that amount to trying to have the equivalent of CHDK on non-Canon cameras. It's hard to tell, pretty much if it's a camera product and has firmware, he's shown interest in picking it apart. :)
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