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How to use Minolta macro on A7RII to copy slides

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howardg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote howardg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to use Minolta macro on A7RII to copy slides
    Posted: 30 March 2019 at 17:02
I have a Minolta 100mm Macro f/2.8 D that I want to use on my Sony A7RII body for slide copying. I bought a Nikon ES-1 slide copying adapter to use for that purpose. I mounted the lens on the A7RII using an LA-EA3 adapter and then attached the ES-1 to the end of the lens using a step-down filter adapter. I found that the lens does not come close to focusing on the slide. I tried a Minolta 50mm Macro f/2.8 that I also have and it worked perfectly. However, I prefer to use the 100mm macro instead of the 50mm macro because the latter has oily aperture blades and can only be shot at maximum aperture.

I explored further and, without the ES-1 adapter, I held the slide by hand in front of the lens (focused at 1:1) and moved it backwards and forwards until it focused. I found that I needed to hold the slide 6.25 inches from the front of the lens to achieve focus. What kind of extension tube would I need? Would I use the tube between the camera body and LA-EA3 adapter and the lens, such that the order of the components would be [camera body] > [LA-EA3 adapter] > [extension tube] > [ES-1 slide copying adapter]?

Having perused this article-- https://shuttermuse.com/how-to-calculate-mfd-of-a-lens-with-an-extension-tube/ -- I understand that an extension tube will reduce the minimum focusing distance (MFD) of a lens by a factor greater than 1:1.

In the cited article, the author took a Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L II with an MFD of 380mm and added a 25mm extension tube, which brought the MFD down to 237mm. So I guess my question is: What length extension tube should I get so that I can use the ES-1 slide adapter with my Minolta 100mm Macro f/2.8 D? This lens appears to have a MFD of approximately 170mm as measured by me, though the specs for the lens say it has an MFD of 350mm. Perhaps the LA-EA3 adapter has shortened that?

Thanks!

--Howard
 



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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2019 at 17:17
Originally posted by howardg howardg wrote:


I explored further and, without the ES-1 adapter, I held the slide by hand in front of the lens (focused at 1:1) and moved it backwards and forwards until it focused. I found that I needed to hold the slide 6.25 inches from the front of the lens to achieve focus. What kind of extension tube would I need? Would I use the tube between the camera body and LA-EA3 adapter and the lens, such that the order of the components would be [camera body] > [LA-EA3 adapter] > [extension tube] > [ES-1 slide copying adapter]?
How much of the slide did you see when you held it 6.25 inches in front of the lens? I guess it's almost the whole slide. I think your problem is that the ES-1 slide adapter is too short and putting an extra extension ring on the lens will achieve focus, but you won't get the whole slide in your digital capture.

Originally posted by howardg howardg wrote:

Having perused this article-- https://shuttermuse.com/how-to-calculate-mfd-of-a-lens-with-an-extension-tube/ -- I understand that an extension tube will reduce the minimum focusing distance (MFD) of a lens by a factor greater than 1:1.
I think this is correct if you replace the word "will" by the word "can". It all depends on the focal length of the lens and the length of the extension tube.

Originally posted by howardg howardg wrote:

In the cited article, the author took a Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L II with an MFD of 380mm and added a 25mm extension tube, which brought the MFD down to 237mm. So I guess my question is: What length extension tube should I get so that I can use the ES-1 slide adapter with my Minolta 100mm Macro f/2.8 D? This lens appears to have a MFD of approximately 170mm as measured by me, though the specs for the lens say it has an MFD of 350mm. Perhaps the LA-EA3 adapter has shortened that?
First, the definition of MFD is between the sensor and the subject, not the front of the lens and the subject. Since the extension of the lens at 1:1 is roughly equal to the distance of the subject to the lens your measurement of ~170 mm agrees quite well with the 350 mm MFD. The LA-EA3 doesn't change the MFD is any way. Again I think the problem is that the ES-1 puts your slide too close to the front of the lens, so you need to put some length between the filter threads so it puts the slide about 170 mm from the lens, then you'll be able to get a sharp image of the whole slide. Without that you will only get a picture of a smaller area of the slide.

Hope this helps a bit, if not just ask further

Mind the bandwidth of others, don't link pictures larger then 1024 wide or 960 pix high, see here
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howardg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote howardg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2019 at 20:09
Thanks for the insight on MFD. So it sound that I just need to have a 130 mm tube between the lens and the ES-1 adapter. A simple tube with a thread on each end. Where do I get such a thing? A bellows? I might as well buy a shorter macro lens.

Edited by howardg - 30 March 2019 at 20:19
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2019 at 23:12
Part of the problem with the published equations is they all assume the lens behaves like a single glass element, and many do not (no telephoto lenses do, for a start, and neither do most macros). Most of the traditional 50mm non-macro lenses (especially the double-Gauss types) behave in a predictable fashion, but on most lenses you just have to play around and see.

The trick is to pick a lens which is sharp at its MFD and gives 1:1 or so (which practically means a macro lens) and put the slide in a position you can adjust. Some people use a slide projector for this (built in light source!) but Sybercitizen's arrangement is a good one.

Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2019 at 23:32
Originally posted by howardg howardg wrote:

Thanks for the insight on MFD. So it sound that I just need to have a 130 mm tube between the lens and the ES-1 adapter. A simple tube with a thread on each end. Where do I get such a thing?

You'll never find a thing like that ready-made ... and having one machined would probably cost more than you'd want to pay.

A bellows? I might as well buy a shorter macro lens.

That would be the best idea, considering the low price of Minolta macro lenses. You really shouldn't be messing with the ES-1 at all unless you use a lens of the right focal length, such as the Nikon lenses for which it was designed. I mean ... you could jerry-rig something that would work using the lens you have, but you could also jerry-rig something using the lens you have and not using the ES-1 at all.

Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Some people use a slide projector for this (built in light source!) but Sybercitizen's arrangement is a good one.

Do you mean the thing I rigged up years ago, that's still occupying space on my website?

Edited by sybersitizen - 31 March 2019 at 02:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SnowFella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2019 at 04:49
Looks like the ES-1 was designed to use either a 55 or 60mm macro lens, the 100mm that you are trying to use has way to long MFD.

Only way to fix it if you want to keep on using the 100mm would be an extension tube between the lens and ES-1, you need to push the slides out past the 100mm macros MFD of 350mm.

Adding a tube between the camera and lens will increase the magnification, enough of a tube that you can focus on the slide will mean you only will get part of the slide in the frame.
 



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stiuskr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stiuskr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2019 at 04:58
Use a cardboard box to make a lightbox. I did to copy slides and they came out pretty good. One hole in the center a little larger than the film size and beveled strips of foam to hold the slide flat against the box, then two more holes to either side for a pair of flashes and glue something white to the back panel. The hardest part for me was color correcting those that needed it.

Sample

00099_42 by Robert Suits Jr, on Flickr

Rob Suits Jr.
a99M2 a99 a77 a700 KM7D|Min24/2.8 Min35/2 So50/1.4 So50/2.8 Min85/1.4G Tam90/2.8 Tam180/3.5|Tam17-50 CZ24-70G2 KM28-75D So70-200G1 So70-300G So70-400G1| SonyF60 AD200R2
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2019 at 14:28
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Do you mean the thing I rigged up years ago, that's still occupying space on my website?

That's the one. Just an example of a good DIY method.
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Bob J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2019 at 15:08
What you could do is to use a 'dumb' A mount adapter with the 50 macro... This will allow manual focus, but will allow you to stop the lens down manually. The alternative is to set up on a tripod and forego the slide adapter. If you look in the adapters link there is an example of a cheap dumb adapter and of you look in the scanners article there is an example of a tripod slide copying setup using a 100 macro.

I'll see if I can add some links when I'm on a proper PC rather than my tablet.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2019 at 15:39
One option (not the cheapest though) could be also to buy an used Micro-Nikkor 55 mm and Nikon F to E mount adapter. Given that Nikon slide copier is intended for that lens, that certainly would provide the most hassle-free setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2019 at 16:19
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2019 at 16:28
I think this is 2nd best solution with Minolta macro.

The result. The slide taken at 1980, w/ Kodachrome64.
9,99II,7RIV,6300.., about 40 lenses
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Post Options Post Options   Quote howardg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2019 at 17:00
Thanks everyone for so patiently helping me understand the optical physics involved. I think I now understand that extension tubes between the camera body and the lens can decrease the minimum focusing distance of the lens, but at the "cost" of increasing the magnification, such that I can move the lens closer to the slide but I will only be able to capture a small part of the slide--not the whole thing. I guess this "cost" is usually the "goal" of using extension tubes: to get in as close as possible to details. It's only a cost when you are trying to get an image of an entire object (a slide) but can't get it into focus because of the MFD of the lens. In that case you have to move the subject away from the front element.

I think I'll try the first setup described above and put the camera and lens on a tripod and point it down at a slide lying on a lightbox.

Thanks again.

--Howard
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