FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Minolta 1200 Ring flash

Page  <1234 5>
Author
XKAES View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 24 September 2021
Country: United States
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 15:32
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

[QUOTE=michelb]
I've never found a use for ADI flash control .
Nothing worse than direct flash , rabbit in the headlamps look ,IMO .
Bounce flash or off camera flash for me , so no ADI anyway .


90% of the time I use flash, there's nothing to bounce the flash off. And if it's too far away, the shot is under-exposed. And if close enough, it affects the color of the subject.

And with a background -- assuming there is one -- it is typically many feet beyond the subject, so TTL flash just gives me a completely washed out subject.

It would be great if I could use off-camera flash everytime I use flash, but that only happens in the studio.

ADI isn't perfect in every regard, but it gives the best exposure more often for my strobe use.
http://www.subclub.org
http://www.subclub.org/minman
http://www.subclub.org/minchin
http://www.subclub.org/toko
http://www.subclub.org/fujinon
 



Back to Top
neilt3 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 13 September 2010
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Manchester.U.K
Status: Offline
Posts: 3023
Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 17:14
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

[QUOTE=michelb]
I've never found a use for ADI flash control .
Nothing worse than direct flash , rabbit in the headlamps look ,IMO .
Bounce flash or off camera flash for me , so no ADI anyway .


90% of the time I use flash, there's nothing to bounce the flash off. And if it's too far away, the shot is under-exposed. And if close enough, it affects the color of the subject.

And with a background -- assuming there is one -- it is typically many feet beyond the subject, so TTL flash just gives me a completely washed out subject.

It would be great if I could use off-camera flash everytime I use flash, but that only happens in the studio.

ADI isn't perfect in every regard, but it gives the best exposure more often for my strobe use.


For off camera flash you can use wireless TTL flash control .
Hold the camera in one hand held to your eye , and hold the flash held away from the camera with the other .
Flash control is managed with either the cameras pop up flash ( A mount ) or using another ( compatible ) flash as the controller .

If direct flash works for you , it works for you .
No harm in trying other methods , just on the off chance you might prefer the results .
see my photostream on flickr;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.
Back to Top
XKAES View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 24 September 2021
Country: United States
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 19:24
Thanks, but those are not options for me. I don't have cameras with built-in flashes, and I'm not going to walk around carrying another flash.

One option would be to always use the ADI flash on a removable shoe with a short ADI flash cable --assuming something like that is actually made -- and remove the flash when used. The ADI distance would be the same, but I better have good aim!
http://www.subclub.org
http://www.subclub.org/minman
http://www.subclub.org/minchin
http://www.subclub.org/toko
http://www.subclub.org/fujinon
Back to Top
addy landzaat View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 22 April 2006
Country: Netherlands
Location: Netherlands
Status: Online
Posts: 13352
Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 19:53
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

Thanks, but those are not options for me. I don't have cameras with built-in flashes, and I'm not going to walk around carrying another flash.

One option would be to always use the ADI flash on a removable shoe with a short ADI flash cable --assuming something like that is actually made -- and remove the flash when used. The ADI distance would be the same, but I better have good aim!
The ADI distance is the focus distance from the camera, not the flash.
Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101
Back to Top
XKAES View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 24 September 2021
Country: United States
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 20:55
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

The ADI distance is the focus distance from the camera, not the flash.


Of course, but if I have the flash on a cord at arm's length on my left, the distance will be the same -- except perhaps for a close-up.

But it doesn't matter because I can find no suitable flash cord adapter. While there are plenty of ADI-capable adapters that allow off-camera flash use, I don't see any that allow you to place the flash on the top of the shoe connector -- when not using the flash off-camera. That means that you can't carry the camera and the flash as a single unit.

Maybe there one out there -- or could make one. It would be simple enough to glue a shoe on to of the shoe connector, for transport, but it would be non-functional.
http://www.subclub.org
http://www.subclub.org/minman
http://www.subclub.org/minchin
http://www.subclub.org/toko
http://www.subclub.org/fujinon
Back to Top
Phil Wood View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 24 March 2013
Country: United Kingdom
Location: England
Status: Offline
Posts: 2489
Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 00:02
A little HVL20 flash as a trigger for wireless will fit into a pocket - not ideal, but you don't need to carry two big flashguns.

Edited by Phil Wood - 11 May 2022 at 00:07
 



Back to Top
neilt3 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 13 September 2010
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Manchester.U.K
Status: Offline
Posts: 3023
Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 01:01
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

The ADI distance is the focus distance from the camera, not the flash.


Of course, but if I have the flash on a cord at arm's length on my left, the distance will be the same -- except perhaps for a close-up.

But it doesn't matter because I can find no suitable flash cord adapter. While there are plenty of ADI-capable adapters that allow off-camera flash use, I don't see any that allow you to place the flash on the top of the shoe connector -- when not using the flash off-camera. That means that you can't carry the camera and the flash as a single unit.

Maybe there one out there -- or could make one. It would be simple enough to glue a shoe on to of the shoe connector, for transport, but it would be non-functional.


You won't find a cable that you can run a flash off camera and retain ADI flash control as it won't exist .
As Addy points out the ADI distance is the focus distance from the camera, not the flash.
However the camera calculates the flash output based on the flash being mounted on the camera , facing directly forward .
If the flash is being controlled via a wire or wirelessly , or bounce flash is used , the camera reverts to Pre-Flash TTL metering .
This is because if the flash is not on the camera facing forward the camera has no idea on where the flash is in relation to the target and camera/lens , therefor it cannot know how much light is required .

see my photostream on flickr;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.
Back to Top
XKAES View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 24 September 2021
Country: United States
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 02:02
If I have my flash off-camera connected to the hot shot by a cable, how would the camera know that the flash is not on the camera?

I know that with a flash titled upward that the camera can tell it is not pointed forward, but simply connected to a correct cable won't tell the camera anything different.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
http://www.subclub.org
http://www.subclub.org/minman
http://www.subclub.org/minchin
http://www.subclub.org/toko
http://www.subclub.org/fujinon
Back to Top
michelb View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 26 August 2009
Country: Canada
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Posts: 703
Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 02:11
On the Minolta Off Camera shoe OS-1100 (also present on WL stands MS-1 and MS-2), there is a small notch at the side of the shoe that lets a pin on the flash know it is off camera. See the long oval shaped hole on the right side of the shoe here. This is what is telling the body that the flash is off camera.
Sony used the same shoe for its A-mount flash units and when they changed to MIS, they have so many connectors on there that there is likely a provision for something similar on that new shoe but probably now electronic.



If this oval hole was filled, maybe it would fool the system but i am not going to spend time on this

And just a small correction on something someone mentioned here: The power necessary to provide proper lighting by flash is actually the flash/subject distance. In the case of ADI, and this is why it is limited to direct on camera flash is the the flash is at the same distance as the camera since it is directly above the body.


Edited by michelb - 11 May 2022 at 02:18
Michel B
Back to Top
gigo View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 28 March 2008
Country: Japan
Location: Yokohama
Status: Offline
Posts: 420
Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 02:59
The 99II manual also states that if you use the flash with an off-camera, it will automatically become P-TTL.
If you cannot automatically detect the situation where ADI cannot be used, such as when the wide panel cannot be detected with an old flash, be careful to switch to P-TTL in the menu.

FYI:
Off camera flash accessory list.

Minolta OC-1000, ISO-cable-plug
Minolta OC-1100/Sony FA-CC1AM, iISO-cable-plug
FA-CS1M, Mi-Mi w/socket
Minolta OS-1100/Sony FA-CS1AM, ISO-iISO w/socket
Minolta OS-1000, ISO-ISO w/socket
Minolta Cable EX/Sony FA-EC1AM,socket-cable-plug
Minolta Cable CD/Sony FA-MC1AM,plug-cable-plug
Minolta TC-1000/Sony FA-TC1AM

Unfortunately, most of these are obsolete. (I have so many of these that the box is full )
ILCE-1, FE:14/24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
ILCE-QX1, Full Sprctrum NEX-5R, E:2
LA-EA5, A:35G/100S/200M/500R,3x-1x +7, SIGMA MC-11 + Canon EF8-15 FishEye
Back to Top
XKAES View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 24 September 2021
Country: United States
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 03:12
Originally posted by michelb michelb wrote:

If this oval hole was filled, maybe it would fool the system


I appreciate the information. There are several NON-Minolta/Sony off-camera flash cables available. I'm going to check some of them out to see if they saved a few pennies and didn't bother to add that hole. And, of course, filling in the hole would be easy, anyway. It might be worth the trouble.

It's too bad that the existence of that hole prevents using the flash in ADI mode on a camera bracket. Seems kind of dumb to me.
http://www.subclub.org
http://www.subclub.org/minman
http://www.subclub.org/minchin
http://www.subclub.org/toko
http://www.subclub.org/fujinon
Back to Top
neilt3 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 13 September 2010
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Manchester.U.K
Status: Offline
Posts: 3023
Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 08:22
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:



It's too bad that the existence of that hole prevents using the flash in ADI mode on a camera bracket. Seems kind of dumb to me.


Not dumb , just common sensed if you understand how ADI flash control works .
The camera works out how much power is required for correct illumination based on the distance from the target .
If the flash is held off camera , the camera has no idea where the flash is or which way it is pointing or how far away it is from the target .
Therefore it can't use the distance information from the lens to calculate the required power , so reverts to pre-flash TTL metering , as already explained.

If Minolta hadn't made it work this way everyone that tried using their flash off camera would be complaining how bad ADI flash was and their exposures were always wrong , not accepting things are off due to them not setting the camera and flash up correctly .


Edited by neilt3 - 11 May 2022 at 08:26
see my photostream on flickr;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.
Back to Top
gigo View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 28 March 2008
Country: Japan
Location: Yokohama
Status: Offline
Posts: 420
Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 12:40
The topic is getting off and on, but I have a question that I can't answer for a long time.
The E-Mount camera doesn't have an ADI / P-TTL switching menu.

ADI: Pre-flash + distance information.
P-TTL: Pre-flash only.

Is this because ADI has progressed and P-TTL is no longer needed, or is ADI abolished because the disadvantages of ADI outweigh the advantages?
Or has automatic switching progressed to the point where manual switching is not necessary?

I don't care about the method because the results are all, but I'm curious.
ILCE-1, FE:14/24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
ILCE-QX1, Full Sprctrum NEX-5R, E:2
LA-EA5, A:35G/100S/200M/500R,3x-1x +7, SIGMA MC-11 + Canon EF8-15 FishEye
Back to Top
XKAES View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 24 September 2021
Country: United States
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2022 at 14:44
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

Not dumb , just common sensed if you understand how ADI flash control works .


I understand how ADI flash works, and I still think the way it's set up is dumb.

If I have an ADI-capable flash on a camera bracket -- for convenience and to avoid red-eye -- the distance to the subject is exactly the same, and ADI flash would be a great benefit.

Minolta -- and later Sony -- added a fifth tab on the shoe on the early AF flashes, which is difficult to see. It's off to the side -- but inside the foot slot -- and basically tells the flash that it is on the camera. When the flash is not on a camera, the tab is not depressed, and the flash will not fire in ADI mode. Some early Minolta AF ADI flashes, such as the D2500 do not have his tab -- and I assume they will operate in ADI mode off-camera.

I haven't checked out all of the Minolta off-camera cables, but I assume that very early AF off-camera flash cables lacked the oval hole, simply because the early AF flashes did not have ADI flash capability. And looking at the NON-Minolta/Sony off-camera flash cables, some have the oval hole, and some don't -- such as this Promaster version. Using an ADI-capable flash with this cable should allow for ADI use off-camera, such as a camera bracket or at arm's length.

I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in this.





Edited by XKAES - 11 May 2022 at 15:14
http://www.subclub.org
http://www.subclub.org/minman
http://www.subclub.org/minchin
http://www.subclub.org/toko
http://www.subclub.org/fujinon
Back to Top
Dyxum main page >  Forum Home > Equipment forums > Lighting Page  <1234 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.

Monitor calibration strip

Dyxum.com - Home of the alpha system photographer

In memory of Cameron Hill - brettania

Feel free to contact us if needed.