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old good A-mounts or new E-all-in-one

Printed From: Dyxum.com
Category: Equipment forums
Forum Name: E-mount lenses
Forum Description: For E-mount lens discussions
URL: https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=140538
Printed Date: 27 January 2023 at 01:26


Topic: old good A-mounts or new E-all-in-one
Posted By: ahaveland
Subject: old good A-mounts or new E-all-in-one
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 13:54
Ok, Dyxum experts has given me several good advices past 15 years.
No I need another.. feel free to include subjective feelings, but still give tecnincal good advice.

Question:

Keep my setup as is or change to one All-in one lens (Tamron 28-200)?
(without spending more money)

current setup:

Secondhand A7Rm2 (newly purchased)
La-EA4 a to Emount adapter

https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tokina-17mm-F3.5-AT-X-17-AF-PRO-_lens164.html - https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tokina-17mm-F3.5-AT-X-17-AF-PRO-_lens164.html
https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Minolta-AF-50mm-F1.7_lens17.html - https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Minolta-AF-50mm-F1.7_lens17.html
https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Sigma-85mm-F1.4-EX-DG-HSM_lens563.html - https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Sigma-85mm-F1.4-EX-DG-HSM_lens563.html
https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Sigma-105mm-F2.8-EX-DG-OS-HSM_lens612.html - https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Sigma-105mm-F2.8-EX-DG-OS-HSM_lens612.html
https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Minolta-AF-28-135mm-F4-4.5_lens38.html - https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Minolta-AF-28-135mm-F4-4.5_lens38.html

My considerations:

My lenses have great individual positives, but my 28-135 walkaround hase some negatives..
First the 1,5meter min focus distance is often causing some annoying situations. I also feel the resolution and sharpness from this 30-35 year old lens is considerably lower than, say a Tamron 28-200 2.8-5.6. The aperture is equvalent at the long end, but slower on 28mm.

But when I really need low light performance, I have my 50mm or 85mm.

I have thought of just finding a F2.8 28/24-70/80mm lens for A-mount on secondhand markets. reccomendations appreciated.
There are both a Sony SAL2875 and a Tokina ATX 280AF PRO for sale locally at very low prizes.

What I don't have in my current setup is good phase detection AF speed, and reach above 135mm.
also speed of my 28-135 would sometimes limit my creativity.

sample images from my instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/ahaveland/ - https://www.instagram.com/ahaveland/



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A100 and A7, SEL28-70OSS, Min 50F1.7, Min 28-135F4-4.5, Tokina 17mm F3.5 PRO. LA-EA4. Sigma 85mm F1.4 Ex-DG-HSM. Sigma 105mm F2.8 Macro EX-DG-OS-HSM.



Replies:
Posted By: Jonas A-R
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 14:03
I think you will miss your fast primes if you go to the 28-200 one lens solution. And maybe also your Macro? I know I would

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a9 a6300
21/2.8 Loxia 35/1.4Z 50/1.4Z 85/1.4GM 90/2.8G Laowa 100mm F2.8 Ultra Macro 100/2.8GM 135/1.8GM
12-24/4G 24-105/4G 100-400/4-5.6GM 2x TC


Posted By: neilt3
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 14:59
I can see how the E-mount 28-200mm can replace the Minolta 28-135mm , but I would keep the prime lenses as they have uses that neither zoom can replace .

If your budget allowed it you might want to look at the Sony E mount 24-105mm , rather than the 28-200mm , as it's apparently a very good lens .

I have a Sony 24-70mm f/4 on my a7Riv , but so far I'm not convinced if I should keep it .
The Canon 24-70mm f/4 L lens I have is giving a much better performance .

I'm not sure if I've helped you though , chucking a few more lenses into the mix !

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see my photostream on flickr;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/sets/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.


Posted By: 4paul
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 15:14
I'm going to say you are good with what you have, based on what I can see on your Instagram!

I will suggest a prime 28mm, since you mentioned normal zooms at 28mm, you can get f2.0 or faster. If you need longer than 105mm then a dedicated telephoto zoom like the inexpensive Minolta 100-300APO will work.

If you are changing the 28-135, you can replace it with SAL or Tokina, or Tamron all-in-one. I guess this time of year you don't have much light so you want the extra aperture. I haven't used any of these myself, but I still like the 28-135, I get angry at the MFD at almost two meters.

Question: Do you like changing lenses, or do you hate changing lenses? Do you like carrying extra lenses in a pouch, or do you only want to carry the lens with the camera? You can only make pictures with the lenses you have with you, and you can only use one lens at a time.

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There is a difference between a shaky or out-of-focus photograph and a snapshot of clouds and fog banks. - Schrödinger


Posted By: QuietOC
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 17:18
I have the Minolta 28-135 F4-4.5, Sony 28-75 F2.8 SAM, Sony FE 24-105 F4 G OSS, and Tamron 28-200 F2.8-5.6 RXD.

I really like having 24 mm for indoor events. The OSS on the 24-105 G is also very helpful.

I've had a lot of blurry shots with the 28-200 RXD. I think I've updated the firmware since I last used it.



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Sony A7RIV LA-EA5
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 17:27
What do you mean by "blurry shots"? I know pegelli is really happy with his. Maybe you have a faulty one?
24mm is overrated imho. 28mm is to me a nice compromise - but people differ.

Almost forgot: I do not really have an advice.
If you want better AF, go with the Tamron 28-200. It seems a really nice lens.
Your HSM lenses work on the LA-EA3, but the AF with those lenses on the A7r2 might be not brilliant. On anything newer I would get a LA-EA3 or 5 with those lenses.

And like it is being said: you would miss some of your primes.

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: XKAES
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 17:32
You have to decide how many lenses you want.

One lens is nice -- I like my 24-200mm, but the 28-300mm ones are a good alternative.

Two lenses? Also easy. A 17-35mm and a 28-300mm.

Three lenses? A 17-35mm, 35-135mm, and a 135-400mm.

Four? Stick with what you got.

This all assumes you only shoot in bright light -- or always bring a flash or tripod.


Posted By: Fivepin
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 21:51
Hey Addy, I don't think the laea3 or 5 work on the a7rmii...I could be wrong...but I think the a7rmiii was the first to use phase auto detection with those adapters...


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G.R.


Posted By: Hezu
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 22:02
Originally posted by Fivepin Fivepin wrote:

Hey Addy, I don't think the laea3 or 5 work on the a7rmii...I could be wrong...but I think the a7rmiii was the first to use phase auto detection with those adapters...
α7R III works with those adapters, however you get AF only on lenses with builtin motors and even then there might be slightly more erratic results compared to the newer cameras, which fully support LE-EA5.

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http://hezu.1g.fi/ - Galerie Hezu


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 22:28
Like Heikki said. The A7r2 gives phase detect AF with adapted lenses like those HSM (SAM/SSM) lenses. I think the A7r2 gives acceptable AF with adapted lenses, but newer cameras like my A7r4 are noticeably better.

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: ahaveland
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 22:59
Thanks for many good advice here.
I have not checked the details of which lenses/body/adapters would give me best AF.
However I already have LA-EA4 with built in focus motor. But this use the contrast points I guess.

I also appreciate some of your questions, like amount of lenses to carry around.. And to keep changing lenses or not..

I need to do some thinking..

Will keep you posted, and please keep the advices coming :-)

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A100 and A7, SEL28-70OSS, Min 50F1.7, Min 28-135F4-4.5, Tokina 17mm F3.5 PRO. LA-EA4. Sigma 85mm F1.4 Ex-DG-HSM. Sigma 105mm F2.8 Macro EX-DG-OS-HSM.


Posted By: neilt3
Date Posted: 16 December 2021 at 23:40
Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

Thanks for many good advice here.
I have not checked the details of which lenses/body/adapters would give me best AF.
However I already have LA-EA4 with built in focus motor. But this use the contrast points I guess.



The LA-EA4 uses phase detect AF sensors built into it , the same as the A mount SLT cameras .
Rather than the contrast AF the camera does off the main sensor .


-------------
see my photostream on flickr;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/sets/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.


Posted By: Roger Rex
Date Posted: 17 December 2021 at 00:22
I can only offer some traditionally basic ways to think about your situation by asking a few questions (things to consider). Some have been addressed above in a slightly different way.

1. 200 mm need - Do you have need for that focal length, are there shots you're not taking that you would take if you had that focal length? For me, certainly not you, the answer is overwhelming "no", i.e, I have a 70-300 lens that I have not used for fifty shots in 20,000 shots.

2. sharpness vs. ease of use - Sharpness, the primes (but you must carry several and will be switching); ease of use, the 28-200 (but won't be as sharp, typically). Note: I am not familiar with the 28-200, perhaps it is quite sharp relative to the primes but that has never happened to me even when comparing very old Minolta primes to very new zooms. That said, the qualitative sharpness advantage of my primes has almost been eliminated by the Sony 16-35 and 24-70, such that I do not use my primes anymore. Perhaps the 28-200 renders sharpness a non-issue to you - I don't know, only you can decide.

3. If you can, consider renting a 28-200 or borrowing one and shoot for a day with it - that should tell you a lot.

4. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1568708-REG/tamron_a071_28_200mm_f_2_8_5_6_di_iii.html/reviews - Here are some reviews of the 28-200.

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Hatred corrodes the container it is carried in. http://rogerrex.zenfolio.com/


Posted By: Miranda F
Date Posted: 17 December 2021 at 21:12
If you're happy using (and changing) primes on the LA-EA4, I'd suggest either the Sony/Minolta 24-105mm f3.5-4.5 or the Sigma 28-105mm f2.8-4. Both are still reasonably compact on the LA-EA4 and both work well with the A7Rii. I use the 24-105 a lot despite the vignetting at wide/fully open. The Sigma version is faster and has nice sunstars but a bit wider at the front.
My experience with FF 28-200mm lenses has not been good, especially those from the film era which are usually disappointing on digital; with the A7Rii you have enough pixels to crop the xx-105mm tightly when you need - and you may get as much usable resolution as with the 28-200mm. If you want a cheap all-in-one and can stand the slow long end the Sony kit FE28-70mm also works well on the Rii.
The best super-zoom I have used personally is the Sony 18-250mm which is surprisingly good at both ends. It's A-Mount APS-C, though, but gets corrections unlike the non-Sony A-mount zooms, and IME these are well worth having if you take jpegs in camera.

I use the SAL85F28 on LA-EA3 a lot on the Rii, as it's a super little lens even on the adapter when you don;t want to carry the big ones around with you.

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Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 17 December 2021 at 21:21
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

Thanks for many good advice here.
I have not checked the details of which lenses/body/adapters would give me best AF.
However I already have LA-EA4 with built in focus motor. But this use the contrast points I guess.



The LA-EA4 uses phase detect AF sensors built into it , the same as the A mount SLT cameras .
Rather than the contrast AF the camera does off the main sensor .
The A7r2 has phase detect sensors off the main sensor with adaptors like the LA-EA3/5.

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: neilt3
Date Posted: 17 December 2021 at 22:05
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

Originally posted by ahaveland ahaveland wrote:

Thanks for many good advice here.
I have not checked the details of which lenses/body/adapters would give me best AF.
However I already have LA-EA4 with built in focus motor. But this use the contrast points I guess.



The LA-EA4 uses phase detect AF sensors built into it , the same as the A mount SLT cameras .
Rather than the contrast AF the camera does off the main sensor .
The A7r2 has phase detect sensors off the main sensor with adaptors like the LA-EA3/5.


Correct , but the camera makes no use of them with the O.P's LA-EA4 .
Which is a shame , as if they could used for a final check by the camera they would remove the need for MFA .

-------------
see my photostream on flickr;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/sets/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 08:31
Aha, but the LA-EA4 does not use of the contrast AF off the main sensor AFAIK.

To summarize:
LA-EA4 - uses the AF system of older A-mount cameras.
LA-EA3/EA5 on A7r2: uses the on-sensor phase-detect and contrast points with the SAM/SSM (HSM) lenses - not with screw drive lenses. AF is acceptable in my experience, but newer cameras are better.
LA-EA5 on A7iv/A7r4/A1: uses the on-sensor phase-detect and contrast points with both SSM/SAM and screw drive lenses. AF is good.

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: neilt3
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 09:01
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Aha, but the LA-EA4 does not use of the contrast AF off the main sensor AFAIK.



That's right .
The LA-EA4 is a stand alone unit as far as AF goes .
Like I said when I wrote " The LA-EA4 uses phase detect AF sensors built into it" .
It doesn't use any of the cameras AF capabilities .

EDIT ; That's unless you convert it to an LA-EA4r with the Monster adapter chip , although I've no idea on compatibility with that set-up .

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see my photostream on flickr;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/sets/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 09:39
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Aha, but the LA-EA4 does not use of the contrast AF off the main sensor AFAIK.


Like I said when I wrote " The LA-EA4 uses phase detect AF sensors built into it"
I got confused by your remark about contrast AF. Therefore the summary

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: Phil Wood
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 11:01
Compatibility of the LA-EA adapters is a bit of a minefield - check the compatibility pages on the Sony website before buying.

With the LA-EA3 note the AF speed comments, while it sort of works on some older bodies the AF speed is incredibly slow, making it pretty useless.

The LA-EA5 will only work on the very latest bodies and some of those will not work with the older adapters.

The LA-EA4 AF is pretty much the same as the A99 and includes the ability to do microfocus adjustments.


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 11:15
Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:

With the LA-EA3 note the AF speed comments, while it sort of works on some older bodies the AF speed is incredibly slow, making it pretty useless.
What do you mean by "older bodies"? In my experience it is fine on the A7r2 - but do not expect to photograph sports.

Don't try it on the A7 or A6000, but the A7r2 or later is fine for most kinds of photography.

Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:

The LA-EA5 will only work on the very latest bodies and some of those will not work with the older adapters.
The LA-EA5 works like a LA-EA3 on older cameras. So, it focusses SAM/SSM lenses, but not screw drive lenses.

Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:

The LA-EA4 AF is pretty much the same as the A99 and includes the ability to do microfocus adjustments.
The LA-EA4 has the older AF system. It has 15 focus points with 3 cross types, the A99 has 19 AF points with 11 cross types (and the 102 support points).

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: neilt3
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 13:51
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Aha, but the LA-EA4 does not use of the contrast AF off the main sensor AFAIK.


Like I said when I wrote " The LA-EA4 uses phase detect AF sensors built into it"
I got confused by your remark about contrast AF. Therefore the summary


No problem .

-------------
see my photostream on flickr;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/sets/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.


Posted By: neilt3
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 13:57
Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:

Compatibility of the LA-EA adapters is a bit of a minefield - check the compatibility pages on the Sony website before buying.



My comment about compatibility was regarding the LA-EA4r modification .
The chips supplied by the Monster adapter folk ( not Sony ) , so you would need to check on their website if they have one .
I think they just have a Facebook account with the details on , rather than a proper website .

-------------
see my photostream on flickr;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/sets/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.


Posted By: ahaveland
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 22:53
https://flic.kr/p/2mRrS5Y"> https://flic.kr/p/2mRrS5Y - DSC09116 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/49697745@N04/ - A_H_A_V , on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/2mRvaAw"> https://flic.kr/p/2mRvaAw - DSC09119 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/49697745@N04/ - A_H_A_V , on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/2mRvaBo"> https://flic.kr/p/2mRvaBo - DSC09137 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/49697745@N04/ - A_H_A_V , on Flickr


Thanks for keeping my discussion alive.

Here are three uncropped photos form today's short hike. Compressed by the playmemories app on my mobile. However I do see that the minolta 28-135 is versatile in range. But I feel that the resolution is far from my experience will so you feel 28-70 3.5-5.6 OSS which I had to sell with my a7.

I wasn't planning to spend more money right now.. but I see that I both want to keep my primes, and get a better walkabout zoom..

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A100 and A7, SEL28-70OSS, Min 50F1.7, Min 28-135F4-4.5, Tokina 17mm F3.5 PRO. LA-EA4. Sigma 85mm F1.4 Ex-DG-HSM. Sigma 105mm F2.8 Macro EX-DG-OS-HSM.


Posted By: ahaveland
Date Posted: 18 December 2021 at 22:55
https://www.flickr.com/photos/49697745@N04/ - https://www.flickr.com/photos/49697745@N04/

Not sure if the Flickr links above worked. But here is my profile.

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A100 and A7, SEL28-70OSS, Min 50F1.7, Min 28-135F4-4.5, Tokina 17mm F3.5 PRO. LA-EA4. Sigma 85mm F1.4 Ex-DG-HSM. Sigma 105mm F2.8 Macro EX-DG-OS-HSM.


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 19 December 2021 at 09:08
How to post pictures here, read this thread: https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/posting-images-and-links-faqs_topic28010.html - https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/posting-images-and-links-faqs_topic28010.html

What you see is that the camera compensates the faults of the 28-70 but not of the 28-135. That gives the impression that the 28-70 is better. FE lenses have this option.

How often do you use your primes?
Where do you use your macro for? The Tamron 28-200 has a 1:3 macro that is not good for bugs but fine for flowers.

I assume you saw the reviews in our lensdatabase: https://www.dyxum.com/reviews/lenses/Tamron-28-200mm-F2.8-5.6-Di-III-RXD_review7071.html - https://www.dyxum.com/reviews/lenses/Tamron-28-200mm-F2.8-5.6-Di-III-RXD_review7071.html

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: ahaveland
Date Posted: 20 December 2021 at 07:50
Thanks Addy,
Fixed the flickr links.

These photos are posted for the disussion of lens sharpness only. Not neccesarily photos I would post public othervise.


I found a SAL28-75 F2.8 Lens locally. And agreed with the seller to buy it for around 110Euros inc postal freight. This was low enough cost to not needing to sell off any primes.

So I might update the discussion later in the christmas holidays when it arrives here.


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A100 and A7, SEL28-70OSS, Min 50F1.7, Min 28-135F4-4.5, Tokina 17mm F3.5 PRO. LA-EA4. Sigma 85mm F1.4 Ex-DG-HSM. Sigma 105mm F2.8 Macro EX-DG-OS-HSM.


Posted By: QuietOC
Date Posted: 20 December 2021 at 11:40
I had a very good copy of the FE 28-70 OSS that was sharper than any of the Minolta 28-135's I've had. It's main fault is being a kit zoom that has some variation. Though that is also a problem with some expensive Sony lenses.

The SAL2875 also gets Lens Compensation when used on the full-frame E-mount cameras. I have a sharp copy of that one too. I had two copies of the Tamron branded version that were not as good, but were still sharper than the Minolta zooms. The SAM is pretty slow and noisy, but works well enough.

I prefer the rendering of the FE 28-70 OSS over these.

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Sony A7RIV LA-EA5
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9


Posted By: ahaveland
Date Posted: 04 January 2022 at 07:34
I've had about one week with the SAM28-75 now.
I'm very happy with the preliminary results.
Didn't do any technical testing or comparisons yet, but the feeling of sharpness is very good.





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A100 and A7, SEL28-70OSS, Min 50F1.7, Min 28-135F4-4.5, Tokina 17mm F3.5 PRO. LA-EA4. Sigma 85mm F1.4 Ex-DG-HSM. Sigma 105mm F2.8 Macro EX-DG-OS-HSM.



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