a300 (Swivel-Screen/Liveview), a350 confirmed
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Category: Equipment forums
Forum Name: A-mount APS-C
Forum Description: For discussion of all Minolta and Sony a-mount APS-C cameras
URL: https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26507
Printed Date: 12 February 2025 at 03:47
Topic: a300 (Swivel-Screen/Liveview), a350 confirmed
Posted By: beline
Subject: a300 (Swivel-Screen/Liveview), a350 confirmed
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 18:44
Updated 20080129 @ 1037 EST:
Doing some scouting on the SonyStyle website reveals confirmation of the a300 (big deal) and the new swivel screen a300K.
A300 and A300K - 10.2MP/Live View/Swivel Screen
From SonyStyle:
From Minolta Spain:
  
A350 - 14.2MP/Live View/Swivel Screen
From SonyStyle:
From Minolta Spain:
    
A300 and A350 will have swivel-screen standard. Button layouts on both models confirm SOME implementation of Live View (HOW is the subject f much debate).
Two new buttons. One on top-plate, and one to right of view-finder. The button to the right is to zoom in Live View (for accurate MF?). The new SWITCH on the top plate is to switch between Live View and the optical viewfinder (or Digital [Electronic] Viewfinder, as some beleive).
The SSS switch, Fn button, and AF selector pad are pushed slightly to the right to allow more room for swivel screen. No other differences, stop looking or you'll hurt your eyes...
Images of both from Minolta Spain appear to be the same except for the MP designation... I'm just the messenger.
No image of the a900... :-(
Thanks to Ankit for initial large images. Initial small images removed for cleanliness. Larger images borrowed from Minolta Spain.
For those of you who don't know, Advizia is the E-Commerce host that Sony uses to run the SonyStyle. All images are direct from the Advizia/SonyStyle database, and as such, are essentially the final word.
This makes 5 cameras in Sony's active line-up.
And a message from Kiklop:
- please .. please ... please .... try to be polite and friendly. With the announcement date closing our admin/mod team will once again decrease our level of tolerance and we will start deleting threads without any warning or explanations (we don't have the time to discuss each word written).
- no bashing other persons are allowed.
- bashing other brands or users isn't allowed unless you are tolerant and you do have arguments
- if you find yourself frustrated by someones postings, use the report button (leave us handle it), take a deep breath and go out shooting with your camera .. that's we have it for ;)
happy shooting ! |
20080128 @ 2000 EST:
Ok, well it seems we have reached an informational stand-still now.
Much of this thread is not speculation, as a good deal of the information mentioned was garnered directly from the photos presented (except the CCD/CMOS bit).
This was crazy, +13k views in one day! Awesome... And to think, I haven't posted in months! HA!
I would also note that this is not the first thread on the topic of the A300/A350. A good bit of discussion had been done at " http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25393 - A200 Based Flip screen DSLR - Main Discussion " and " http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25556 - A 300 coming? Battery grip logic ." However, I started this thread because this was the confirmation from the horse's mouth.
Folks coming from abroad. Be sure to check out the rest of our forum. It is a lovely place! Full of beautiful pictures and wicked smart individuals. Alpha-Mount owners, we want you! And if you don't own an Alpha-Mount? Well, you'd best get one. :-D |
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20080129 @ 1020 EST:
To clear up the Live-View/Optical-Viewfinder/Digital-Viewfinder/Electronic-Viewfinder debate.
It says "Live View/OVF" on the top=plate. Not EVF (looks like EVF on small images from side) or DVF (it looks like DVF on large from-top image due to the curvature of the camera).
However. We have it on good word that there MAY be some implementation of an EVF on one of the models. It is rumored that this would be done by replacing the Focus-Screen with a low-resolution, low frame-rate, low cost sensor of an unknown kind, and placing a similar low-spec'd LCD in front of the viewers eye.
The reasons for this are many. One, it would retain high-accuracy AF while presenting the user (presumably a compact-convert) with a comfortable familiar interface. It would bring Sony into the "Live-View" category in a manner that they may feel is better (they have mentioned that current implementation of LV is flawed). Etc.
I don't exactly agree, but we shall find out in a matter of days... |
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Replies:
Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 18:53
Any one with better web development skills than I. I present this challenge to you.
Write a script to search all
http://www.advizia.com/Accounts/110/1510/lores/DSLR-Axxxaa.jpg images (substituting progressive numbers for "xxx" and optional progressive capital alpha characters for "aa" [we know they like "K" and "P"]).
For those of you who don't know. Advizia is the e-commerce host that Sony uses to drive SonyStyle...
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ricardovaste
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 18:54
I am unsure of where you are finding these on SonyStyle...
edit/ sorry just missed your second post, i understand now !
------------- I photograph the moments in people's lives that mean the most to them: http://www.rharris-images.com/ - Richard Harris Photography
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Posted By: dilettante
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:04
beline wrote:
Doing some scouting on the SonyStyle website reveals confirm of the a300 (big deal) and the new swivel screen a300K. |
Normally in Sony's naming scheme, the difference between DSLR-Ax00 and DSLR-Ax00K is that the first is body only, the second is with the 18-70 kit lens.
------------- http://www.pbase.com/dilettante/" rel="nofollow - dilettante galleries @ pbase.com
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:23
Well...it looks like the dreaded "XX.X megapixels" logo on the left-hand side is still there (I had hoped they would only have this on the A200) :(
Oh and... pics #1 (A300) and #3 (A350) look to be the same...
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:26
So do you mean to say that the a300 is swivel screen by default? because I defiantly see a swivel screen in that second photo...
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ankit
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:34
Played a bit with the URLs. This is authentic guys. I'll let the pictures do the talking. Look closely at the little sticker that everyone loves to hate:
------------- For Sale: 100-300mm/4.5-5.6 D APO
http://ankit.smugmug.com - http://ankit.smugmug.com
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Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:38
Thanks mate. I am Fuskering the urls to kick up any bunnys that may be in there... taking a bit of time..
Lets just say I am a BIT disappointed that the a900 hasn't cropped up. I am actually thinking that Sony may give it a different prefix. Because FF is such a different beastie than what they are currently offering... But thats just a shot in the dark.
My gut tells me its simply not in the cards for PMA...
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:39
Well... it pretty much confirms what Kiklop has said a while ago: two models, both with LiveView, one 10mp, the other 14mp.
Now... 14mp CCD... I wonder how that one behaves at ISO800 and above :(
I'm also really curious to see how the LV implementation works. Is it worth a smaller viewfinder, or not?
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: sybersitizen
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:39
You can't infer anything from these tiny JPGs and their filenames. There's no usable information here.
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Posted By: m.b.
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:41
no.. please don't tell me, those are both A200 clones with LV and one of them has more mpix..
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Posted By: ankit
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:41
sybersitizen wrote:
You can't infer anything from these tiny JPGs and their filenames. There's no usable information here. |
Look at the pic for the A350 - it has a 14.2mpx sensor. That is "usable" information imo :)
------------- For Sale: 100-300mm/4.5-5.6 D APO
http://ankit.smugmug.com - http://ankit.smugmug.com
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:41
Uuuu.... I wonder what that little lever besides the lens mount does :)
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:45
And the swivel screen... Thats concrete information. Sure, no confirmation of Live-View. But think of it THIS way.
WHY have a SWIVEL screen if... gasp... you can't USE it? Thats what a swivel screen is FOR.
That said. Live-View CONFIRMED... Nice...
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Winwalloe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:52
cezarL wrote:
Uuuu.... I wonder what that little lever besides the lens mount does :) |
Looks like a MF/AF switch to me, similar to the one on the A-100 and KM5D I guess, if we talk about the same thing.
The bodies look like the A-200, a bit of a bummer, I like manual flash opening so much ^^
------------- http://guenolephilippe.fr - See my webpage! E-mount stuff, A-mount stuff, and µ43 stuff
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:55
No...not that switch, right underneath it (and slightly to the front,dunno how to explain it) there's a lever-like thingie. My A100 doesn't have that. Or maybe it's just a body-design thing.
EDIT- Mmmm... nope, my bad. There's nothing there. I just checked the A200 pics and the design around the mount is the same, so... no extra lever.
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: sybersitizen
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 19:59
ankit wrote:
Look at the pic for the A350 - it has a 14.2mpx sensor. That is "usable" information imo :) |
That wasn't visible in the first group of photos before the larger ones were posted. Although the '4' is just Photoshopped onto the A300 image, I agree that it does indicate a specification. But it's been known for a while that the A300 would include an articulating LCD, so no real news there.
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Posted By: Winwalloe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:00
Well, that'd be a design-thing to me cezarL ^^
Also, looking at the 1st and 3rd pix consecutively, the pix are the same, only the MP logos changes (but, that doesn't matter).
------------- http://guenolephilippe.fr - See my webpage! E-mount stuff, A-mount stuff, and µ43 stuff
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Posted By: yellowballoon
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:06
Hmm...so perhaps the A350 is just a A300 with an extra 4 megapixels like the Nikon D40x compared to the D40. The thing is, it never makes any difference! You just get worse Noise values!
------------- -Yes sir, it has a 12mp CMOS sensor, ISO6400 capability, 11 point autofocus, HD capability, Live-view, SSS, one of the most technologically advanced...-Great, and how do you load the film?
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Posted By: ankit
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:09
yellowballoon wrote:
Hmm...so perhaps the A350 is just a A300 with an extra 4 megapixels like the Nikon D40x compared to the D40. The thing is, it never makes any difference! You just get worse Noise values!  |
It makes a difference to people comparing cameras on paper... 14.2 > 12, thus sony > canon :)
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http://ankit.smugmug.com - http://ankit.smugmug.com
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Posted By: m.b.
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:10
yellowballoon: if yes, it's sad news for everyone waiting for D80/ K10 level camera.
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Posted By: kiklop
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:10
Don't hurt your eyes and searching for differences between these two bodies; aside the "MP advertisement" you may not find anything else :)
------------- We may have http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/unawsered_forum_topics_date-range13.html - questions waiting for answers !
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:11
yellowballoon wrote:
Hmm...so perhaps the A350 is just a A300 with an extra 4 megapixels like the Nikon D40x compared to the D40. The thing is, it never makes any difference! You just get worse Noise values!  |
Hopefully, it will be more than that. I want a real alternative to the A700 (which is a tad too expensive for my taste and needs). If what these cameras (and especially A350) bring above A200 is just Live-View (and more noise on the 14mp sensor), then... it's not enough for me :(
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: Jlav
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:11
A noticable difference between the A200 here is that in the rear shot, there is a third button on the right hand of the grip that wasn't there on the A200.
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Posted By: yellowballoon
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:12
Kiklop wrote:
Don't hurt your eyes and searching for differences between these two bodies; aside the "MP advertisement" you may not find anything else :) |
By the end of this I think we'll all be needing a +5 prescription!
------------- -Yes sir, it has a 12mp CMOS sensor, ISO6400 capability, 11 point autofocus, HD capability, Live-view, SSS, one of the most technologically advanced...-Great, and how do you load the film?
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Posted By: Winwalloe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:12
Just wondering :
A-300: same CCD than A-200 most likely
A-350: CCD or CMOS ?
------------- http://guenolephilippe.fr - See my webpage! E-mount stuff, A-mount stuff, and µ43 stuff
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:13
CCD
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: DaveK
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:13
m.b. wrote:
yellowballoon: if yes, it's sad news for everyone waiting for D80/ K10 level camera. |
I'm sure sony learned from the Noise debacle of the A100. Do you think they'd make the same mistake? It's a pixelrace out there and Sony wants a piece of that cake. That's understandable, don't you think?
------------- Best regards, Dave A7r & A7r3 Let's make a colorful world! http://dave-kloren.smugmug.com/ - Gallery
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Posted By: m.b.
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:14
Kiklop: so.. is this everything we will get between A200 and A700? :)
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:17
Jlav wrote:
A noticable difference between the A200 here is that in the rear shot, there is a third button on the right hand of the grip that wasn't there on the A200. |
That one's for LiveView... not sure what it does exactly, something to do with AF in LV mode.
To save you the trouble, there's also a third button on the top plate, but I have absolutely no idea what's it for :)
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: ekaitsou
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:17
Heck 14mp is better than Canon's 12mp and its got a swivel screen. If priced about the same as Canon's new Rebel I think Sony can be picking up a whole lot new shooters this year. I'll hold off judgment on the noise till I see it. Who knows, maybe 300 could be better for street photography with higher iso picture quality and the 350 would be good for people who want to get into landscape or studio shooting.
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Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:17
Probably Live-View (third-button, already mentioned)... I would not be surprised if there was no discernible difference... MAYBE a different pipeline to accommodate the different sensor, as I doubt it is the same sensor as the A200. Perhaps the sensor is significantly better than the A200? New sensor, pipeline, and live-view are enough to make a new model.
An this (BIG Pipe-Dream). MAYBE the A350 is the FF everyone has been waiting for? HIGHLY doubtful, but that would account for the 14.2MP (even Sony knows that this generation of consumers knows about the MP smoke).
I am still reeling about the lack of A900...
Makes me sad...
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: douglasf13
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:19
Jlav wrote:
A noticable difference between the A200 here is that in the rear shot, there is a third button on the right hand of the grip that wasn't there on the A200.
 |
Also, the SSS switch, Fn button, and AF selector pad are all moved over to the right on the "A300" to allow more room for the screen.
------------- ----
http://www.douglasferling.com - douglasferling.com
NEX-5, Hasselblad V, Leicaflex SL, Hipstamatic (former A900, A700, A100 owner.)
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Posted By: kiklop
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:20
DaveK wrote:
I'm sure sony learned from the Noise debacle of the A100. Do you think they'd make the same mistake? It's a pixelrace out there and Sony wants a piece of that cake. That's understandable, don't you think? |
Yes it is understandable. Some of us may not like it but that's the fact; most potential buyers are interested in as much MP as possible.
Even i have found something positive in it; sony will have some experiences in noise reduction that may after all be useful knowledge for a900 .. they will need this kind of experience
------------- We may have http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/unawsered_forum_topics_date-range13.html - questions waiting for answers !
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Posted By: chych
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:20
I wonder if they will update the kit lens to a better design; current one is pretty old. Canon's new 18-55 IS kit is apparently extremely sharp, sharper than many of their L lenses.
------------- Sony A700, Sig 24-70/2.8, Sig 15-30/3.5-4.5, KM 50/1.7, Tam 70-200/2.8, Sony F56AM, Sony F36AM
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Posted By: ankit
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:22
beline wrote:
An this (BIG Pipe-Dream). MAYBE the A350 is the FF everyone has been waiting for? HIGHLY doubtful, but that would account for the 14.2MP (even Sony knows that this generation of consumers knows about the MP smoke). |
Wow. Wouldn't that be the something! Even something like 1.3x would be a welcome change :)
------------- For Sale: 100-300mm/4.5-5.6 D APO
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Posted By: douglasf13
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:24
cezarL wrote:
yellowballoon wrote:
Hmm...so perhaps the A350 is just a A300 with an extra 4 megapixels like the Nikon D40x compared to the D40. The thing is, it never makes any difference! You just get worse Noise values!  |
Hopefully, it will be more than that. I want a real alternative to the A700 (which is a tad too expensive for my taste and needs). If what these cameras (and especially A350) bring above A200 is just Live-View (and more noise on the 14mp sensor), then... it's not enough for me :( |
I think we're all getting a bit spoiled if we can't find a camera to suit us when we'll soon have FOUR DSLRs at $1299 USD or less. That being said, wonder if there'll be an A500??
------------- ----
http://www.douglasferling.com - douglasferling.com
NEX-5, Hasselblad V, Leicaflex SL, Hipstamatic (former A900, A700, A100 owner.)
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Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:27
douglasf13 wrote:
cezarL wrote:
yellowballoon wrote:
Hmm...so perhaps the A350 is just a A300 with an extra 4 megapixels like the Nikon D40x compared to the D40. The thing is, it never makes any difference! You just get worse Noise values!  |
Hopefully, it will be more than that. I want a real alternative to the A700 (which is a tad too expensive for my taste and needs). If what these cameras (and especially A350) bring above A200 is just Live-View (and more noise on the 14mp sensor), then... it's not enough for me :( |
I think we're all getting a bit spoiled if we can't find a camera to suit us when we'll soon have FOUR DSLRs at $1299 USD or less. That being said, wonder if there'll be an A500?? |
No A500 images hosted as of this writing. Still looking though. Will keep you updated...
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Alexramos
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:31
The A300 is better than K200D.
The A350 is better than Canon 450D (better LV, more MPx, better noise and AF)
The A350 is better than Niko D80 (LV, more MPx, better noise and AF)
The A350 is better than K20D (better LV, same MPx, better noise and AF)
Sony have for everybody...
------------- Sony Alpha 200
Sony Alpha 700
Sony DT AF 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6
Sony DT AF 55-200mm f/4-5.6
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Posted By: mrwizard93
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:32
So Kiklop does your mean no A900 at the PMAs ... or that you know the A900 has some noise issues that need to be worked out??????
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... what a tangled web we weave!
-------------

http://tinyurl.com/yl6wmg9 - SOME OF MY GEAR FOR SALE
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Posted By: Maffe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:33
Alexramos wrote:
The A300 is better than K200D.
The A350 is better than Canon 450D (better LV, more MPx, better noise and AF)
The A350 is better than Niko D80 (LV, more MPx, better noise and AF)
The A350 is better than K20D (better LV, same MPx, better noise and AF)
Sony have for everybody... |
Thats speculations
No one have even tested any of those cameras!
But I hope that Sony can performe as well or better then "the others"
------------- http://www.flickr.com/photos/maffe - Flickr
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Posted By: yellowballoon
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:35
Maffe wrote:
Alexramos wrote:
The A300 is better than K200D.
The A350 is better than Canon 450D (better LV, more MPx, better noise and AF)
The A350 is better than Niko D80 (LV, more MPx, better noise and AF)
The A350 is better than K20D (better LV, same MPx, better noise and AF)
Sony have for everybody... |
Thats speculations
No one have even tested any of those cameras!
But I hope that Sony can performe as well or better then "the others" |
Worthy speculations though! Crossing my fingers is what I'm counting on!
------------- -Yes sir, it has a 12mp CMOS sensor, ISO6400 capability, 11 point autofocus, HD capability, Live-view, SSS, one of the most technologically advanced...-Great, and how do you load the film?
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Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:40
mrwizard93 wrote:
So Kiklop does your mean no A900 at the PMAs ... or that you know the A900 has some noise issues that need to be worked out??????
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... what a tangled web we weave! |
Kiklop wasn't saying anything about the A900, just that their experience with noise issues will be valuable knowledge for the A900.
If it has been established that Kiklop knows something, I must have missed it, and if he does, from the phrasing of that post, and what I have not found on th image servers, I would say the A900 is still in development, not to be released at PMA.
"sony will have some experiences in noise reduction that may after all be useful knowledge for a900 .. they will need this kind of experience"
"will," "may," "will." (my emphasis) If it's been established that Kiklop knows something he can't tell us, I think he has. These are future tense, and not immediate future tense. "they will need this kind of experience" when developing the A900. Is what I heard. If the A900 were already developed, it would have read more like "sony has some experiences in noise reduction that provided useful knowledge for a900."
That, with missing images, leads me to believe no A900 for PMA.
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: m.b.
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:41
we can't say, if A350 will have better AF or noise than D80/K20.. but I guess it very likely will have much smaller viewfinder :(
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Posted By: Winwalloe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:43
Sony does seem to take its chance to get its 10% market share.
LV in more bodies, with an option for more MP etc... people should see an alternative for several canikon entry level bodies.
------------- http://guenolephilippe.fr - See my webpage! E-mount stuff, A-mount stuff, and µ43 stuff
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:46
m.b. wrote:
we can't say, if A350 will have better AF or noise than D80/K20.. but I guess it very likely will have much smaller viewfinder :( |
If LV is better implemented than what the other manufacturers are offering right now, that might not be such a big issue. I'm generally satisfied with my A100 VF, except for those situations when I HAVE to use manual focusing. If Sony's LV will give a good MF capability, then I can live with the current viewfinder...
But I would love to get A700 DRO and also A700 JPEG colors, to get rid of processing RAW all the time (as it is the case now, with A100).
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: DutchAlpha
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:46
beline wrote:
...it has been established that Kiklop knows something |
Then let's kidnap Kiklop and tickle him under his feet for as long as needed until he finally gives in to this torture and spills the information!!!
(...though the nicer way would be to wait another 2 more days for PMA to see what Sony comes up with...)
Ah, the speculations, it brings back warm memories of the time the A700 was (to be) announced...
------------- A700+Grip | Tamron 17-50/2,8 | Sony 70-300G SSM | Minolta 50/1,7 | Sony 35/1,8 | Sony HVL-F56AM
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Posted By: Alexramos
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:46
NIw, in Advizia do can you look about the new lenses??
------------- Sony Alpha 200
Sony Alpha 700
Sony DT AF 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6
Sony DT AF 55-200mm f/4-5.6
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Posted By: ricardovaste
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:47
Does it not strike you as quite odd to have a 'lower level' camera (below the A700) but with MORE megapixels???
Its certainly interesting me. Simply because i dont know what it holds, not because of the MP's. CCD OR CMOS will be very important of course, it surely wont be CCD will it???
------------- I photograph the moments in people's lives that mean the most to them: http://www.rharris-images.com/ - Richard Harris Photography
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:49
ricardovaste wrote:
CCD OR CMOS will be very important of course, it surely wont be CCD will it??? |
Oh... I've waited a loooong time to be able to do this (quoting myself, that is) :
cezarL wrote:
CCD |
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
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Posted By: DutchAlpha
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:50
ricardovaste wrote:
Does it not strike you as quite odd to have a 'lower level' camera (below the A700) but with MORE megapixels??? |
Canon does this (too):
450D --> 12Mp
40D --> 10Mp
------------- A700+Grip | Tamron 17-50/2,8 | Sony 70-300G SSM | Minolta 50/1,7 | Sony 35/1,8 | Sony HVL-F56AM
|
Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:51
m.b. wrote:
we can't say, if A350 will have better AF or noise than D80/K20.. but I guess it very likely will have much smaller viewfinder :( |
If we consider Jlav's post with the two images for comparison, it seems they have similar sized VF's.
Also, when you consider that Sony makes equipment for Nikon, and has been for some time. Not to mention they have been in the video camera game for ages. I don't see why noise wouldn't be better.
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: kiklop
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:51
m.b. wrote:
Kiklop: so.. is this everything we will get between A200 and A700? :) |
People are never satisfied
When some hints appeared long time ago suggesting 3 models under a700 most didn't believed this will happen ... now ... you are asking for more ;)
cezarL wrote:
Hopefully, it will be more than that. I want a real alternative to the A700 (which is a tad too expensive for my taste and needs). If what these cameras (and especially A350) bring above A200 is just Live-View (and more noise on the 14mp sensor), then... it's not enough for me :( |
Well .. in this case you may wait for some discounts and save a bit for a700
chych wrote:
I wonder if they will update the kit lens to a better design; current one is pretty old. |
It may be old but still, for the money i personally find it quite capable. AFAIK, no new kit lens aside somewhat different kit packages (different tele lens)
While i'm really glad there are so many enthusiastic people, please do not expect wonders; Sony is providing what many have asked for: affordable entry level models with LV. Nothing less and nothing more. No k20D like cameras .. a700 is here for that with all the cons and pros it gives.
And
- please .. please ... please .... try to be polite and friendly. With the announcement date closing our admin/mod team will once again decrease our level of tolerance and we will start deleting threads without any warning or explanations (we don't have the time to discuss each word written).
- no bashing other persons are allowed.
- bashing other brands or users isn't allowed unless you are tolerant and you do have arguments
- if you find yourself frustrated by someones postings, use the report button (leave us handle it), take a deep breath and go out shooting with your camera .. that's we have it for ;)
happy shooting !
------------- We may have http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/unawsered_forum_topics_date-range13.html - questions waiting for answers !
|
Posted By: Winwalloe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:52
Well, with 12MP P&S cameras, some upgraders won't want a 10MP haha.
(indeed I don't know what I talk about)
And we do go back to the A-700 time speculation-wise, but what is more understandable considering the A-200 came so fast we had no time for rumors, specs came too early for that haha.
------------- http://guenolephilippe.fr - See my webpage! E-mount stuff, A-mount stuff, and µ43 stuff
|
Posted By: beline
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:54
DutchAlpha wrote:
ricardovaste wrote:
Does it not strike you as quite odd to have a 'lower level' camera (below the A700) but with MORE megapixels??? |
Canon does this (too):
450D --> 12Mp
40D --> 10Mp |
I am going to have to eat my words on this one. Previously I said that "surely" Sony knows that todays consumers are aware of the MP smoke that manufacturers blow up their behinds. However... Thinking about it makes me reconsider.
It is still in entry-level territory (A350), it has a relatively high model number (A350 > A300, A200, A100), giving it the air of superiority. And it has more MP... Yeah... Seems like a direct ploy to get ignorant consumers...
And here I had dreams of grandeur and a FF A350... So much for that...
------------- http://www.coverthisphotography.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:56
Kiklop wrote:
cezarL wrote:
Hopefully, it will be more than that. I want a real alternative to the A700 (which is a tad too expensive for my taste and needs). If what these cameras (and especially A350) bring above A200 is just Live-View (and more noise on the 14mp sensor), then... it's not enough for me :( |
Well .. in this case you may wait for some discounts and save a bit for a700 |
Now that's not fair, I distinctly remember one of your posts, back when the A200 was announced, something like... "the other model will be a little bit more than just an A200 with live-view"
Of course, by "a little bit more" you could have meant the 14mp sensor... in which case, you were deadly accurate
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
|
Posted By: colmo
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:57
ricardovaste wrote:
Does it not strike you as quite odd to have a 'lower level' camera (below the A700) but with MORE megapixels??? |
It's not the first time it's happened - Canon have just done it with the 450D (over the 40D) and previously did it with the 400D (over the 30D). Olympus did it repeatedly during the lifespan of the E1 (every dSLR they made afterwards had more MP). I'm sure there were other times, too.
I had been hoping Sony would do a K20d-alike, with a nice pentaprism - I suppose that's what the A500 (whenever that shows up) will be. I wonder if liveview is a worthwhile alternative to a glass prism?
If they launch all of these cameras, Sony will have 5 models on the market! I'm sure others have done the arithmetic already this thread, but it's worth repeating...ok, I'll do it again - five cameras!
------------- Dynax 7 & A100|Monopod & 2xCF pods + pan & FLM 38 heads|5400HS|Minolta 24-105/3.5-4.5, 70-210/4, 50/1.7|Sigma 90/2.8, 400/5.6 Tele Macro|Sony 18-70/4.5-5.6|Sunpak 455|X700+50mm f1.4 and other MF stuff
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Posted By: Two_truths
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 20:58
I think that we should tickle Kiklop, not to learn what the new cameras will be, but instead to learn what the new lenses will be!
How about listing "random" numbers in your posts, Kiklop? We could put the numbers together and guess what they mean!
------------- --
Stuart / the Two Truths
The Modern Hippie of Dyxum
http://twotruths.net - twotruths.net
a700 | 1.8/20 | 1.4/50 | 2.8/90 | 1.8/135
|
Posted By: m.b.
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:00
Kiklop wrote:
m.b. wrote:
Kiklop: so.. is this everything we will get between A200 and A700? :) |
People are never satisfied
When some hints appeared long time ago suggesting 3 models under a700 most didn't believed this will happen ... now ... you are asking for more ;)
|
But since I don't care about mpix and live view.. Those 3 cameras look same to me :)
For me they have the same value.. same small viewfinder, only one dial etc.
what's new?? more mpix and swivel lcd? :(
|
Posted By: ricardovaste
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:01
cezarL wrote:
ricardovaste wrote:
CCD OR CMOS will be very important of course, it surely wont be CCD will it??? |
Oh... I've waited a loooong time to be able to do this (quoting myself, that is) :
cezarL wrote:
CCD |
 |
No, i did notice your post, but jsut wondered what others thought. But either way, why do you think it will be CCD? Cheaper?
------------- I photograph the moments in people's lives that mean the most to them: http://www.rharris-images.com/ - Richard Harris Photography
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Posted By: yellowballoon
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:02
My mate had a Canon EOS 400D, and when we made prints from it compared to my sony, with mine using the L20 sigma and his using the kit lens, same object, same exposure, same ISO, same settings, same printer the results from mine were FAR superior - leading me to believe that the sensors some companies say are not quite what they are meant to be.
------------- -Yes sir, it has a 12mp CMOS sensor, ISO6400 capability, 11 point autofocus, HD capability, Live-view, SSS, one of the most technologically advanced...-Great, and how do you load the film?
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Posted By: douglasf13
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:02
colmo wrote:
ricardovaste wrote:
Does it not strike you as quite odd to have a 'lower level' camera (below the A700) but with MORE megapixels??? |
It's not the first time it's happened - Canon have just done it with the 450D (over the 40D) and previously did it with the 400D (over the 30D). Olympus did it repeatedly during the lifespan of the E1 (every dSLR they made afterwards had more MP). I'm sure there were other times, too.
I had been hoping Sony would do a K20d-alike, with a nice pentaprism - I suppose that's what the A500 (whenever that shows up) will be. I wonder if liveview is a worthwhile alternative to a glass prism?
If they launch all of these cameras, Sony will have 5 models on the market! I'm sure others have done the arithmetic already this thread, but it's worth repeating...ok, I'll do it again - five cameras! |
What I don't understand with your post is that the K20D has the same street price as the A700. So Sony DOES have this camera...it just happens to be better spec'ed (aside from MPs.)
------------- ----
http://www.douglasferling.com - douglasferling.com
NEX-5, Hasselblad V, Leicaflex SL, Hipstamatic (former A900, A700, A100 owner.)
|
Posted By: yellowballoon
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:02
Emphasising the HAD, it broke on Xmas day - shutter won't work anymore!
------------- -Yes sir, it has a 12mp CMOS sensor, ISO6400 capability, 11 point autofocus, HD capability, Live-view, SSS, one of the most technologically advanced...-Great, and how do you load the film?
|
Posted By: kiklop
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:04
DutchAlpha wrote:
Then let's kidnap Kiklop and tickle him under his feet for as long as needed until he finally gives in to this torture and spills the information!!!
|
Why me ?
Take some Sony guy instead .. i'm still far less knowledgeable than most of them
------------- We may have http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/unawsered_forum_topics_date-range13.html - questions waiting for answers !
|
Posted By: ricardovaste
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:06
A900 on our way in the fall then?
------------- I photograph the moments in people's lives that mean the most to them: http://www.rharris-images.com/ - Richard Harris Photography
|
Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:06
ricardovaste wrote:
But either way, why do you think it will be CCD? Cheaper? |
Noooo... just because Kiklop said so last week, on a DPR thread: two sensors, that average to 12mp, but none of them being 12mp (so confirms 10 and 14), and... none of them is CMOS.
Obviously the man knows a lot more than he lets us believe. I wouldn't be surprised if he has already played with both cameras :)
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
|
Posted By: kiklop
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:07
cezarL wrote:
Now that's not fair, I distinctly remember one of your posts, back when the A200 was announced, something like... "the other model will be a little bit more than just an A200 with live-view" |
Aha .. correct .. you were the one that was actually reading what i have wrote
cezarL wrote:
Of course, by "a little bit more" you could have meant the 14mp sensor... in which case, you were deadly accurate |
------------- We may have http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/unawsered_forum_topics_date-range13.html - questions waiting for answers !
|
Posted By: kiklop
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:08
m.b. wrote:
But since I don't care about mpix and live view.. Those 3 cameras looks same to me :) |
I saw the same person in the mirror today :)
------------- We may have http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/unawsered_forum_topics_date-range13.html - questions waiting for answers !
|
Posted By: m.b.
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:10
Kiklop wrote:
m.b. wrote:
But since I don't care about mpix and live view.. Those 3 cameras look same to me :) |
I saw the same person in the mirror today :) |
but actually.. it's not funny :(
still.. there is a lot of room yet between 350 and 700.. :)
|
Posted By: bharnois
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:13
For my part I'm really glad I now have the A700. If I'd waited then I'd be tempted by one these 'lesser' cameras.
If SONY wants their share then we'll need the '500 and '900 and that will cover the bases and allow it to happen. Maybe they could skip the '500 if they had to but the '900 is a 'must do'.
------------- Just luvin' DYXUM.
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Posted By: DaveK
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:17
Is this thread growing fast!!!!
------------- Best regards, Dave A7r & A7r3 Let's make a colorful world! http://dave-kloren.smugmug.com/ - Gallery
|
Posted By: TallPaul
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:20
ricardovaste wrote:
Does it not strike you as quite odd to have a 'lower level' camera (below the A700) but with MORE megapixels???
Its certainly interesting me. Simply because i dont know what it holds, not because of the MP's. CCD OR CMOS will be very important of course, it surely wont be CCD will it??? |
A700 Mk2 will have more pixels, released in 2 days?
Seriously though, pixels do not the image make. If its a 14MP CCD then perhaps the performance of the A700 is above the new model, regardless of the number of pixels on the packet.
For those sweeping that website, don't forget you need to use different letters as well as numbers, my money is still on A900 at PMA....
------------- A900, 16-35/2.8Z, 70-200/2.8G, 85/1.4Z, 28-75/2.8, 50/1.7. Nex 6, 16-50mm & Rokkor MC/MD lenses.
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Posted By: TallPaul
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:24
bharnois wrote:
For my part I'm really glad I now have the A700. If I'd waited then I'd be tempted by one these 'lesser' cameras.
If SONY wants their share then we'll need the '500 and '900 and that will cover the bases and allow it to happen. Maybe they could skip the '500 if they had to but the '900 is a 'must do'.
|
Its no good saying "must do" now, in the hope Sony are listening, with two days to go... either there's something in the cabinet or there's not!
------------- A900, 16-35/2.8Z, 70-200/2.8G, 85/1.4Z, 28-75/2.8, 50/1.7. Nex 6, 16-50mm & Rokkor MC/MD lenses.
|
Posted By: colmo
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:25
douglasf13 wrote:
colmo wrote:
<snip>
I had been hoping Sony would do a K20d-alike, with a nice pentaprism - I suppose that's what the A500 (whenever that shows up) will be. I wonder if liveview is a worthwhile alternative to a glass prism?
<snip> |
What I don't understand with your post is that the K20D has the same street price as the A700. So Sony DOES have this camera...it just happens to be better spec'ed (aside from MPs.)  |
The K20d doesn't have a street price yet, because it isn't available (at least not in the UK - Edit: Just found it on Jessops and other sites - L899 is bonkers pricing by Pentax). Actually, the camera I'll be watching for is the Samsung clone, the GX20. I recommended the GX10 to a number of people because it was such a bargain for a long time. The body-only a700 has a UK street price of L700+, and I expect the Samsung twin-lens kit to be L600, just as the GX10 was. The Sony and Pentax/Samsung aren't in the same class, nor do I expect them to live in the same price bracket.
------------- Dynax 7 & A100|Monopod & 2xCF pods + pan & FLM 38 heads|5400HS|Minolta 24-105/3.5-4.5, 70-210/4, 50/1.7|Sigma 90/2.8, 400/5.6 Tele Macro|Sony 18-70/4.5-5.6|Sunpak 455|X700+50mm f1.4 and other MF stuff
|
Posted By: Winwalloe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:26
I only realize now that the A-300K is not a kit with A-300 + kit lens.
Weird but well...
------------- http://guenolephilippe.fr - See my webpage! E-mount stuff, A-mount stuff, and µ43 stuff
|
Posted By: macrophoto
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:35
What I can't understand is the large number of different sensors made.
We know that the development costs ( incl. tooling) for a new sensors is very expensive and everybody aims at economy of scale.
Sony seems to produce 5 sensors for brand new products: ccd 10 mp, ccd 14 mp, cmos 12 mp, cmos 12 mp (FF in the D3) and cmos 20+ mp FF for A900
|
Posted By: Two_truths
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:35
GX-20's RRP is L700.
------------- --
Stuart / the Two Truths
The Modern Hippie of Dyxum
http://twotruths.net - twotruths.net
a700 | 1.8/20 | 1.4/50 | 2.8/90 | 1.8/135
|
Posted By: Two_truths
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:45
macrophoto wrote:
What I can't understand is the large number of different sensors made.
We know that the development costs ( incl. tooling) for a new sensors is very expensive and everybody aims at economy of scale.
Sony seems to produce 5 sensors for brand new products: ccd 10 mp, ccd 14 mp, cmos 12 mp, cmos 12 mp (FF in the D3) and cmos 20+ mp FF for A900 |
Sony and Canon are remaining pretty level, they have just made more advanced sensors with more megapixels.
Sony 2006ish:
6MP APS-C CMOS, 10MP "R1" CMOS, 10MP APS-C CCD, 12MP "D2X" CMOS
Sony 2008ish:
10MP APS-C CCD, 12MP APS-C CMOS, 14MP APS-C CCD, ??MP FF CMOS
Canon 2006ish:
8MP APS-C CMOS, 10MP APS-C CMOS, 8MP APS-H CMOS, 12MP FF CMOS, 17MP FF CMOS
Canon 2008ish:
10MP APS-C CMOS, 12MP APS-C CMOS, 10MP APS-H CMOS, ??MP FF CMOS, 21MP FF CMOS
The real differences is the additions of Nikon and Pentax/Samsung...
Nikon 2006ish:
4MP APS-C JFET
Nikon 2008ish:
12MP FF CMOS
Pentax/Samsung 2008ish:
14MP APS-C CMOS
------------- --
Stuart / the Two Truths
The Modern Hippie of Dyxum
http://twotruths.net - twotruths.net
a700 | 1.8/20 | 1.4/50 | 2.8/90 | 1.8/135
|
Posted By: m.b.
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:45
simple fact, that the thread has been moved here, shows, that the new cameras don't even deserve a new sub forum :))
|
Posted By: douglasf13
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:46
In the US, I believe the price difference between the K10 and GX10 was about $100 US.
------------- ----
http://www.douglasferling.com - douglasferling.com
NEX-5, Hasselblad V, Leicaflex SL, Hipstamatic (former A900, A700, A100 owner.)
|
Posted By: CTYankee
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:47
macrophoto wrote:
We know that the development costs ( incl. tooling) for a new sensors is very expensive and everybody aims at economy of scale.
|
Yes, but economies of scale work the other way, too ... put two different sensors in what's basically the same camera and you have two different models for the cost of sensor development.
macrophoto wrote:
Sony seems to produce 5 sensors for brand new products: ccd 10 mp
|
That's an update of an old sensor and presumably Sony has made money selling it to Nikon and Pentax.
macrophoto wrote:
, ccd 14 mp, |
New, if true, probably same technology as 10.2 so not a lot of research.
macrophoto wrote:
cmos 12 mp, cmos 12 mp (FF in the D3) |
Do we know that Sony produces the sensor for the D3 ? In any event, Nikon designed the sensor and if not manufacturing it themselves, is paying Sony to manufacture it. I'm sure their chip division is happy to take on any new work !
macrophoto wrote:
and cmos 20+ mp FF for A900
|
Guess if you want enough models to compete with everyone else, you need the sensors to differentiate them; at least, unlike Canon, Sony is able to sell sensors to competitors (of course, without those sales, they wouldn't have the kind of production that Canon does).
------------- http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com/gallery/7916530_B3qBq#513527444_ZMQ2t - April Foolishness
CZ16-80 | 28-75D | 28/2 | 85/1.4 | 70-300G | 400G
|
Posted By: macrophoto
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 21:59
I think you are right .... I was talking about one single Sony ...
In reality we see a sensor company and a camera company under the Sony brand
|
Posted By: Pekka L
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:09
beline wrote:
Kiklop wasn't saying anything about the A900, just that their experience with noise issues will be valuable knowledge for the A900.
If it has been established that Kiklop knows something, I must have missed it, and if he does, from the phrasing of that post, and what I have not found on th image servers, I would say the A900 is still in development, not to be released at PMA.
"sony will have some experiences in noise reduction that may after all be useful knowledge for a900 .. they will need this kind of experience"
"will," "may," "will." (my emphasis) If it's been established that Kiklop knows something he can't tell us, I think he has. These are future tense, and not immediate future tense. "they will need this kind of experience" when developing the A900. Is what I heard. If the A900 were already developed, it would have read more like "sony has some experiences in noise reduction that provided useful knowledge for a900."
That, with missing images, leads me to believe no A900 for PMA. |
Hmmm... the way I would read Kiklops hint,
Kiklop wrote:
Even i have found something positive in it; sony will have some experiences in noise reduction that may after all be useful knowledge for a900 .. they will need this kind of experience  |
would be: he knows a900 will have a huge load of mp's stacked on it's sensor!
|
Posted By: kiklop
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:11
m.b. wrote:
simple fact, that the thread has been moved here, shows, that the new cameras don't even deserve a new sub forum :)) |
LOL .. and you replied to me http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26507&PID=275934#275934 - earlier that it was not funny :)
------------- We may have http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/unawsered_forum_topics_date-range13.html - questions waiting for answers !
|
Posted By: cezarL
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:19
It'll be interresting to see what LCD will these models have. The hi-res, 3" A700 one, or the lower A200 screen?
------------- “Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long.” - Walker Evans
http://cezarl.zenfolio.com - http://cezarl.zenfolio.com
|
Posted By: Sanjuro
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:26
cezarL wrote:
It'll be interresting to see what LCD will these models have. The hi-res, 3" A700 one, or the lower A200 screen? |
It can't be the A700 LCD, it would make it too expensive for this model.
I would think kind of A200 LCD.
------------- Rgds Sanjuro
"I paint objects as I think them, not as I see them." --Pablo Picasso
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Posted By: oliv
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:30
macrophoto wrote:
What I can't understand is the large number of different sensors made.
We know that the development costs ( incl. tooling) for a new sensors is very expensive and everybody aims at economy of scale.
Sony seems to produce 5 sensors for brand new products: ccd 10 mp, ccd 14 mp, cmos 12 mp, cmos 12 mp (FF in the D3) and cmos 20+ mp FF for A900
|
Sony has its own 12" cmos wafer fab. IMO this is what makes all the difference. If the production line are not already at 100% of their capacity it does not cost so much to produce as many different chips as they need. The only extra cost is the price of the masks (quite expensive) and of course the extra cost for development, test, packaging... (not so much).
About the sensor of the D3, according to the french mag "Chasseur d'image" it is not manufactured by Sony.
------------- a700+VG F56AM M11-18 CZ16-80 Σ24f1.8 M50f1.4 M85f1.4 M135f2.8 M70-210f4 (beercan) S70-200f2.8G
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Posted By: Turerkan
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:46
having only read the first and the last pages, i'll make a small correction:
making a new/modified sensor of the same type and same size does not require that much investment. OTOH, ccd and cmos are completely different beasts and producing any of them requires huge amounts of money, experience and time. cmos is the way all other microchips are made, but ccd is the 'odd one out'. this alone is the main reason of the trend towards cmos, instead of maintaining two completely seperate production processes, you can pump out all other chips and image sensors from one cmos facility (over-generalisation alert, nerds respond lightly). Pushing the maximum sensor size limit beyond also requires a lot of investment, not even mentioning exponentially increases per-unit prouction cost. shortly: sony could pump out 9mp cmos, 10mp ccd, 11mp cmos and 12mp ccd if they think its the best way. they already have the necessary facilities ready and working.. they however need time and money to make a FF sized chip!
now, regarding the cameras: boring!
that rocker button is so pushed to the right that it cannot be serious.. it must be a joke, somebody wake me up!
and they still retain the SSS switch.
sorry for not being constructive but:
this guys have got absolute no clue what they are making..
only if i hadn't been a mod, then i'd really open my mouth..
------------- http://tinyurl.com/chaokc - Self moderate. http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic45171&get=last.html - Use Gimp. http://tinyurl.com/cj4qq8 - View My Photos.
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Posted By: Maurus
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:51
More pics here (mods delete if this has been posted elsewhere):
http://minoltaspain.com/foros/index.php?topic=9136.msg90829#msg90829 - http://minoltaspain.com/foros/index.php?topic=9136.msg90829#msg90829
------------- http://www.pbase.com/maurus_e/ -
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Posted By: CTYankee
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 22:52
The guy with a history of 5279 posts wrote:
only if i hadn't been a mod, then i'd really open my mouth.. |
------------- http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com/gallery/7916530_B3qBq#513527444_ZMQ2t - April Foolishness
CZ16-80 | 28-75D | 28/2 | 85/1.4 | 70-300G | 400G
|
Posted By: mdaniel
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:05
Having the A100 and looking at these and the A200 and the features they have, there is NOTHING that would make me go "uhh" and "ahh" and "ohh" and want to buy any of them. Only an upgrade to the A700 would be worth the trouble.
I agree about the ergonomics of the navigation button, its too far off to the right. Plus I don't get it why they got rid of my beloved selection wheel on the top right side. I love those on my A100.
|
Posted By: Sanjuro
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:05
When ppl is saying, oh is the same sensor at 10MP but now to 12MP, is not much, is the almost the same.
To do this, is a lot of money invested.
It doesn't matter if you do 2 cmos ona at 10 and the other at 12MP, is a totally new component, you need logistics, you need new and upgraded code for the sensor, etc, new test patterns, you need engenieers to develope all this.
I think is pretty impressive the investment Sony is doing. The sensor to Nikon doesn't count too much, Nikon pay Sony for that.
I am happy too see more Sony cameras.
------------- Rgds Sanjuro
"I paint objects as I think them, not as I see them." --Pablo Picasso
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Posted By: stingray
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:08
If both are really CCD I really do not understand anything anymore about Sony.
They have put a lot of money in development of a new CMOS technology, CMOS is known for being the simplest sensor type for live-view because of its low power consumption and read-out flexibility. Sony choice :
Do not put live-view on their CMOS camera and put it on two CCD DSLR
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Posted By: chacha
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:10
I think it's all good news considering the quality of the images being posted from the a200. The pictures look really clean with excellent color and detail. I think sony has learned a lot about NR and are on their way to producing a great line of cameras and lens. I do hope that the live view features do not effect the size of the viewfinder. The a100 viewfinder is fine for me and I can manual focus using it just fine, but I would not want it to be smaller. I hope all the official announcements arrive on Wednesday at PMA.
My first post at Dyxum, what a terrific group of people. It's so much more positive (as in truthful) and educational here. ChaCHa
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Posted By: Gabriel
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:10
When can I have a replacement for my 5D, with a slightly bigger viewfinder, similar noise levels, and a bit higher resolution? (I don't really care about AF speed or high fps)
Those entry-level cameras are not going to provide this.
...Oh! Wait a minute! Actually it has just been announced, but it features a green ring instead of an orange ring. I'm really wondering why I can't have a similar model in orange.
(side note: are those front indications of megapixels actually removable stickers, or are people expected to cover them with black adhesive tape?)
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Posted By: Winwalloe
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:11
Well... maybe they figured it was the best way to implement live view the way they want it, as it sounded like they wouldn't follow the canikon approach...
(edit: it was an answer to stingray)
------------- http://guenolephilippe.fr - See my webpage! E-mount stuff, A-mount stuff, and µ43 stuff
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Posted By: oliv
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:15
To Turerkan: of course they also have their own CCD fab... About FF cost, what make it very expensive is the yield reduction when the size of the sensor increase. But as they own the fabs and the techno, if they can't do it, nobody can.
However at this time I have no opinion about all those new bodies. If Sony LiveView works as well as previously suggested by Kiklop, why not?
(sorry i have only 48 posts )
------------- a700+VG F56AM M11-18 CZ16-80 Σ24f1.8 M50f1.4 M85f1.4 M135f2.8 M70-210f4 (beercan) S70-200f2.8G
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Posted By: stingray
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:19
Gabriel wrote:
When can I have a replacement for my 5D, with a slightly bigger viewfinder, similar noise levels, and a bit higher resolution? (I don't really care about AF speed or high fps)
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So you want a A200, it seem a fine camera, If I need to update my 5D, it may be my choice. And by the way it is cheaper that the one with the green ring
Gabriel wrote:
(side note: are those front indications of megapixels actually removable stickers, or are people expected to cover them with black adhesive tape?) |
I really hope so !!
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Posted By: Turerkan
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:22
CTYankee wrote:
The guy with a history of 5279 posts wrote:
only if i hadn't been a mod, then i'd really open my mouth.. |
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make that 5284 ;)
hehe
------------- http://tinyurl.com/chaokc - Self moderate. http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic45171&get=last.html - Use Gimp. http://tinyurl.com/cj4qq8 - View My Photos.
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Posted By: Hoffy
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 23:23
Well, this is all very interesting indeed.
Are these models Pentamirror or are they the EVF? If they are not EVF, do they have DOF preview?
But, all this, I suppose is just talk....
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