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Case Study: Frankman on birding

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Category: Dyxum Community
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Forum Description: Improving photo techniques & getting more from Dyxum
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 11:20

Topic: Case Study: Frankman on birding
Posted By: Frankman
Subject: Case Study: Frankman on birding
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 11:09
Birds in flight are hard to capture and generally require both good techniques and some expensive gear with which to record successful shots. This partly explains why true specialists at BIF photography are rare inhabitants of photo forums.

Therefore, it has been a pleasure for most of us at Dyxum to observe the rapid progress in this field made by Frankman, who is based in Australia, a country known for its diverse bird life. In recent times he has provided the mods who choose our weekly Exhibitions with somewhat of a headache – which is how to actually avoid including one of his many great shots in every issue.

Frank has kindly agreed to provide the article below as our first “Case Study”.    -- brettania

Case Study: Frankman on birding

When brettania asked me to write an article about bird photography, I was delighted. I’ve only been birding for 18 months, but I’ve learnt enough to be able to pass on my experiences to others. From the outset, I must admit that I wasn’t a “bird-watcher”. It simply happened by accident. I had some camera gear, there were lots of birds in the back yard and on the river nearby, so I just started taking photos. My early attempts were quite ordinary, but thanks to the wealth of information and inspiration on the web, I improved my technique, and picked up some better glass. The following is a description of how I go about taking bird photos. My technique is still developing, so things may change, however the fundamentals remain the same.

The gear

I started with a KM 5D and kit 75-300 lens. This is not a bad lens for static shots of birds in trees etc. You’ve got to understand its limitations to get the best out of it. Within a year, I had acquired the 200/2.8, the 300/4 and both 1.4x and 2x Minolta teleconverters. Then I got the A700…..

My stock setup is the 300/4 and 1.4xTC. It gives me a reach of 420mm at f5.6. I’ve used this gear on both the 5D and A700. The 5D is no slouch, but the A700 is a noticeable improvement in terms of AF speed, tracking accuracy, shooting speed and image quality.

The Camera Settings

I set my A700 with the following parameters:
Focus:          AF-C
Metering:     Centre weighted or spot
Mode:          Aperture priority, f5.6 early morning then reducing to f8 as the light improves.
ISO:            400 in the early morning, then dropping to 320 as the light improves.
Rear dial:     Set to exposure compensation mode – need quick access to this function in different situations.

I try to balance the ISO and aperture to give me shooting speeds of 1/1000 or so. Why not just shoot shutter priority, and let the camera determine the aperture? Yes, I’ve done this and got good results. However, I just feel a bit more comfortable setting the aperture. This may change in time and I may change to shutter priority.

The 300/4 has a focus limiter. I set it to around 5-10 metres, which means that if I’m tracking a bird and I lose focus, then the lens has less travel before it regains focus.

The Technique

I will concentrate on birds in flight (BIF), rather than on static subjects in this article. General photographic techniques apply to the latter.

I chose a location where I have a clear and uninterrupted view of the birds as they fly past. I don’t go chasing the birds. I wait for them to come to me. My favourite spot is on the bank of a nearby river. I have a 180 degree view. I go early in the morning, just after sunrise. The low angle of the sun, combined with the reflection off the water means that I have a good amount of light under the wings to enhance detail. I stand with the sun at my back, and just scan to the west for any birds that may be approaching in my direction.

As a result of my fascination with BIF photography, I spend a lot of time observing behaviour. I’ve chosen my “lucky spot” because it’s near a bend in the river, and birds “cut the corner” when they fly along it. I often have pelicans fly directly overhead, only a few metres off the ground. Other birds are a little more skittish, and I need to stand very still as they approach. As soon as they spot me, they either swing in an arc around me or increase altitude to fly over me. Predicting behaviour greatly improves my success rate.

As the bird approaches me, I place my feet, such that they are approaching from the direction of my left shoulder. They are flying left to right, which means that as I pan, my body is turning at the hips, and my feet stay still. I lock focus on the bird when they are 50 or so metres away. I track them until they (hopefully) fill one third of the frame, then I shoot. I don’t shoot much in random bursts. I wait until the “light is right”. I want good light under the wings, and hopefully some degree of tilt on the body. Most importantly, I want to get the eye illuminated by the sun, with a nice catchlight.

If the bird is white, I don’t apply any exposure compensation. If the bird is black, I apply +1/3 or 2/3 stops of exposure. The rear dial on the A700 is great for making quick adjustments. I shoot RAW, so I have a better than even chance of recovering blown highlights and shadow detail when I get home. However, there is a limit to what you can recover, so getting it right the first time is the best policy.

I don’t use a tripod. The unpredictable nature of the flight path makes a tripod useless most of the time. I find the 420mm focal length to be hand-holdable as long as your shutter speed is over 1/500 sec.

The Boredom

Well, it’s never boring just standing there watching and waiting. Even if the birds are out of range, I watch their behaviour. Alternatively, I practice my technique on seagulls – there are ALWAYS seagulls around! I also scan for alternative locations, based on where I see activity. There’s always a next day.

At Home

Getting the shot is only half the deal. The other half is processing the shot. As I mentioned, I shoot RAW. My general workflow is to open in IDC and check that the levels are OK, maybe a slight exposure tweak or WB tweak. Nothing major however. Then I send the TIFF file to Photoshop, where I crop, and tidy up any minor flaws. I sharpen twice – once at full resolution using unsharp mask, and then a second time after I’ve changed the resolution for the web using smart sharpen. That’s about it!

My main criterion for what I keep and what I discard is the sharpness of the eye. If the eye isn’t sharp, it goes in the recycle bin. I have a very full recycle bin!

My Inspiration

I’ve been inspired by several very good photographers on the web. The first was a fellow that went by the name of “Squidfish” on FM forums. The second is Jody Melanson. His work is stunning, and you can see it here: I’d like to thank all the members at Dyxum who freely share their knowledge with newcomers to the A mount like myself. I hope that this article inspires others to take up BIF photography. If I’ve forgotten anything, just post, and I’ll fill in the gaps for the benefit of all readers. I’m happy to help.


My early images:

These are my early successes. They made me want to go out and learn more and shoot more:
KM5D + 200/2.8 + 1.4TC

More recently:

Here are a few of my favourites:

KM5D + 300/4 + 1.4TC

A700 + 300/4 + 1.4TC

This is our first “Case Study”. We hope to run more in order to help people develop either photographic skills or processing techniques. The next planned article will look at how various photographers handle black and white conversions.

Please note that questions and discussion are welcomed.

*** Sony A850 * A700 * Minolta 5D and other stuff ***

Posted By: badlydrawnroy
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 12:00
Well written Frank and a great insight into the methods and techniques you use to get these wonderful b.i.f shots. On a more general note can I ask you about this statement.

" I sharpen twice – once at full resolution using unsharp mask, and then a second time after I’ve changed the resolution for the web using smart sharpen."

So I assume the actual amout of sharpening would depend on the individual shot? can you give a typical example ? Is the initial sharpening done in the raw converter or on the tiff ?

Look forward to more great b.i.f shots.


Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 12:32
Thanks Roy. I've been using the following sharpening technique for a while:

No sharpening in RAW.
Sharpen the image in PS (depending on the image, these are a starting guide):
Amount: 130
Radius: 1.2
Threshold 3

Then resize to 900px, and apply smart sharpening (again, roughly):
Amount: 60
Radius: 0.4

It all depends on the image. Some need a little more than others. I apply the sharpening in layers, so I can always tone it down by reducing the opacity of the layer at final edit.

Hope that explains it.


*** Sony A850 * A700 * Minolta 5D and other stuff ***

Posted By: badlydrawnroy
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 12:38
Yes, thanks Frank, thats interesting. I never normally do any sharpening until after resizing. I must give this method a try as many experts seem to recommend it.


Posted By: DaveK
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 13:03
Hi Frank,

Very nice explanations! You make it looking so simple..
And sharpening twice.. I'll try it.

Thanks a lot!

Best regards, Dave
A7r & A7r3
Let's make a colorful world! - Gallery

Posted By: brettania
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 13:17
As a PS on sharpening shots from the a700 -- gian and I compared notes several times while I was reviewing the camera, and we both came to the conclusion that the first stage of a two-part sharpen could be significantly more aggressive than one would normally consider appropriate. What is more, I would begin with some sharpening in Bibble or IDC, before working on the .tif file in PSP X2.

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Posted By: Ausgezeichnet
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 13:19
Hi Frank,

thanks for time and effort to write this "guideline" down so well.

Which RAW converter do you use?
Have you ever tried sharpening in the RAW converter, or what keeps you from doing so?

I have recently noticed that when I upscale in C1 (200%) to get a decent size from crops, and downsize later a little in PS, the images can take some sharpening despite previous sharpening done in C1 already.


Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 13:58
Bernd - I use IDC. The reason I sharpen in PS is that I feel I have a little more control, or maybe it's just that it's become habit. It would be an interesting exercise to compare different sharpening techniques.


Posted By: Bob J
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 14:20
You say AF-C, but do you only use the centre focus points?

RBJ ~ - Moderation on Dyxum

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 14:49
Originally posted by Bob J Bob J wrote:

You say AF-C, but do you only use the centre focus points?

Bob - yes, I only use the centre focus point.


Posted By: Dopol
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 17:55

your advise disappointed me...

After looking at your shots I had hoped that you would explain how to stop birds in mid-air..
or a way to reduce the waiting time between arrival and a good shot to say about 20 seconds....   

But seriously. Especially the advise on shutter speed will help me in next experiments. And the availability of seagulls will help too.

thanks for time and effort


Be yourself; everyone else is already taken

Posted By: maewpa
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 19:21
That's really interesting stuff - especially about how you get your shutter speed. Lots of ideas to try. Thank you.

How does the amount of cloud affect your shooting - especially metering?

Paul aka maewpa

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 07 April 2008 at 00:37
Maewpa - I don't go out if it's cloudy to the east. I need fast shutter speeds and relatively low iso (<500). At times when I have gone out and I have clouds to the west, but clear sky to the east, I haven't really had much of an issue with metering. I take a lot of shots, and am regularly reviewing what I've taken, so I compensate as I go along. Very unscientific, but it works for me.


Posted By: mudslinger
Date Posted: 07 April 2008 at 16:36
Thanks for taking the time to post your technique and post processing information. You have some awesome bird shots on this forum. Keep up the good work!

A77 | HVL-F56AM | Tam 17-50/2.8 | 28-75/2.8 D | Tam 55-200/4-5.6 | 50/1.7 | 85/1.4 | 80-200/2.8 HS | Sony 70-300 G SSM | Tokina 400/5.6 | 100 Macro 2.8

Posted By: maewpa
Date Posted: 08 April 2008 at 03:06
Thanks for the response, Frank.

Paul aka maewpa

Posted By: Micholand
Date Posted: 08 April 2008 at 19:36
Thanks for providing an insight into your personal BIF photography - a well written article - and sharing those amazing pictures. Continue the good job, Frank!


// - DWEs don't grow on trees! | // - Posting images&links FAQ

Posted By: iGrf
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:28
Thank you for taking the time to write this down.
You have some great birds shots, congratulations

As I look back over my life
I am struck by postcards
Ruined snap shots
Faded posters
of a time, I can't recall
James Douglas Morrison

Posted By: ricardovaste
Date Posted: 13 April 2008 at 16:02
thank you so much for takin the time to share your techniques/experiences with us frank. i didnt comment immediately, as i've been testing out your suggestions. sadly conditions have been fairly dull... and there isnt really a frequent 'flight path' (if that makes sense) here for any birds. ive been trying to practice the technique on pigeons believe it or not (!) but with no success - it gives me an even great appreciation for what results you achieve, especially with the 5D: its unbelievable.

i think a trip to a river is in need :)

Many thanks.

I photograph the moments in people's lives that mean the most to them: - Richard Harris Photography

Posted By: Wētāpunga
Date Posted: 13 April 2008 at 23:20
A somewhat belated note of thanks for this articulate explanation Frankman. I haven't made many attempts on BIF, so now I know exactly what I do wrong .

α1- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF

Posted By: X-R-M
Date Posted: 15 April 2008 at 04:29
Frank, thank you for clear and well written article.
It makes me to try BIF using your advice.
I do have 5D only, but you proved that good results are possible with that camera.

Some switched to other systems to get good BIF pics...
Thanks again

Posted By: SteveC
Date Posted: 15 April 2008 at 05:09
Those are great pictures, Frank. Thanks a lot for sharing your techniques. I could have used some of them (as well as a longer lense!) on a herd of pronghorn that sprang from behind a hill I was hiking on the other day. They circled me at about 50-75 meters, steadily gaining speed, always seeming to be a bit ahead of me. I kept having to shift my feet. It would have helped greatly, I now think, to have positioned my feet more toward the direction they were heading and then follow them by turning my waist. Since i didn't anticipate them being there, I really hadn't any time to play around with various settings. Everything was shot on auto. A few are ok, but none are outstanding. I can hardly wait to go to the nearby lake and try some birds.


Posted By: Octupi
Date Posted: 15 April 2008 at 05:47 question on the 300/4.

How do I set my focus limiter? I know it sounds silly, but for some reason this has eluded me.

Thanks in advance.

-------------" rel="nofollow - Intro to Off Cam Lighting

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 15 April 2008 at 10:11
Richard - as you've experienced, good light is essential. Hang in there - it's not that toughonce you get the hang of it. Pigeons move pretty fast, so they're a real challenge.

chthoniid - the morephotos you take, the luckier you get. THe secret to success is to take LOTS of shots.

XRM - the 5D is a good performer. It taught me a lot. Once I got the A700, I was glad that I had leant so much using the 5D.

Steve - sounds like you found a great location. It's always hard when something "springs" up on you. I've sworn under my breath many times as I'm taking photos of a bunch of tail feathers. There's always a next time - that's what keeps me going back for more.

Octupi. To set the focus limiter on the 300/4, undo the screw knob, set your camera to manual focus, then turn the thick black focus ring to say 5 meters. Then turn the thin white metal ring anticlockwise until you hit some resistance. Then tighten the screw knob. All done. BTW, don't forget to put the camera back onto AF-C. I've forgotten on more than one occasion - I think I've leant my lesson!

And to everyone else - it's my pleasure to share my experience with you all.


Posted By: sandboa
Date Posted: 14 June 2008 at 07:43

Sorry for the tardy addition, but thanks for this writeup. Very interesting.

I also shoot lots of BIFs with the 700 and 300 f/4. It's a great lens for that. One thing I might add is that I get more keepers when I set the AF Area to Wide. It really makes a difference in "picking up" fast flying birds.


Chris Harrison

Posted By: Maffe
Date Posted: 14 June 2008 at 08:25
After testing Cekaris big white lenses I can only say that I´m even more impressed with your BIF-shots
Thanks for sharing

------------- - Flickr

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 14 June 2008 at 12:07
Originally posted by sandboa sandboa wrote:


I also shoot lots of BIFs with the 700 and 300 f/4. It's a great lens for that. One thing I might add is that I get more keepers when I set the AF Area to Wide. It really makes a difference in "picking up" fast flying birds.


Chris - thanks for taking following up and sharing your experiences. I might give wide AF another try. From memory, I did try it, but can't remember why I went back to spot AF. Something about old dog and new tricks I guess .

Maffe - thanks as well. It's challenging but fun. Such a good feeling when you nail a shot!


Posted By: ab012
Date Posted: 14 June 2008 at 13:57
Actually I am also a fan of AF-wide for BIF - the a700 (unlike the 7D IMO) is quite trustworthy in this setting also :)

Mind you if AF-single is working well for you (as it obviously is!) then perhaps its just a case of different strokes for different folks!


fun fun fun

Posted By: Bygum
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 02:37
A great write up and case study Frank.
Great photo's.
I have made up my mind as to which lens after trying the 100-400L, I will settle for the 300L f4 + 1.4.

Will call soon.


Posted By: Cekari
Date Posted: 01 July 2008 at 10:27
This was a great writing of a 'How To' with top notch images as well.

Might be blind but I can't see anything about using SSS?

Do you have it of or on when tracking/paning?

Thanks for a great post.

Images ,

English is a funny language, seldom it spells the words like I do

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 01 July 2008 at 10:36
Cekari - I keep SSS on all the time. I know it's not supposed to be effective when panning, however there's a big likelihood that if I turn it off for the pans, I'll forget to turn it back on for the static shots. I may give it a try later with SSS off for pans to see whether SSS off is better for pans. At the moment BIF is a bit slow with the colder weather and lack of birds.

Cheers, Frank

Posted By: Cekari
Date Posted: 01 July 2008 at 16:59
Thanks m8...
I have the same problem forgetting when I change something...

Will not bother to answer the other thread as well...

Images ,

English is a funny language, seldom it spells the words like I do

Posted By: Dutboom
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 17:26
Frank, thank you very much for writing very clear and practical tips. Your writing are very helpful for newbies like me.

I have some silly questions.

You said that you lock the focus on the birds and track them. Does it mean that you first focus on the bird, keep half pressing then pan you lens following the bird?

If you use the centre focus point, how can you make a sharp shoot when the bird is in 1/3 position?

Yesterday I tried taking some photos of kids and birds, they were all moving around . I set my camera to AF-C then tried to track them. At first the focus point captured my subjects, but then when I moved my lens following them, the focus point started to be confused. It focussed to some other points behind or after the main subject. So I got a sharp fence or sharp tree leaf while the kids and birds were all out of focus. So what's wrong here? My technique, set-up or the camera (A300) and lens?

Hope you can explain to me a litte bit more!

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 18:13

Thanks for the nice feedback - glad it was of help.

No such thing as a silly question! I have them all the time .

Yes, I lock on the bird with a half-press when it's far away. Just keep tracking it as it's getting closer. Actually, I've found with eyestart, you don't even need a half pres. Just keep your eye to the viewfinder and tracking continues. This allows you to chance settings on the cam with your right hand (if necessary) - e.g. if the bird is very dark, use positive aperture compensation. That's why I like eyestart.

The centre focus point is actually quite bit. The only time I have a problem is if the bird is flying towards me fast. I'm experimenting with multifocal points, but haven't made a strong conclusion yet. I'll keep experimenting.

Your situation sounds like there's lots of independent objects moving. The camera doesn't know which one you are focussing on - remember that the centre spot focus are is still quite large from what I have heard from others.

I don't have any experience with the A300. I think that it has less focus points than the A700, but the lens drive motor is similar. Others may be able to help.

I suggest that you start with simple subjects against a stationary background. Seagulls gliding in the wind ar good, easy to find subjects UNLESS they are moving fast towards you. I struggle with those too. If you can find Pelicans, they are great subjects. Big, slow moving and photogenic (IMO).

It's all practice. I must admit that I started off with the 5D and was getting decent shots after only a few attempts. You just need to get "in the zone".

Keep at it, and just make small adjustment to settings and technique. What works for me may not necessarily be the best. I'm still learning too. Can't wait for spring when there are more birds about!

Cheers, Frank

Posted By: Dutboom
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 23:42
Thanks, Frank.

I will try. Hope to put more birds here soon

Posted By: Dynax
Date Posted: 15 October 2008 at 06:07

Thank you for your experience write-up about shooting BIF with an A700. I still use my good old 7D, but am thinking of upgrading to the A700 for BIF photography. Or maybe the A700 replacement if news reaches me in time, but i think that with firmware V4, the A700 is a very good camera.
It seems there are a few APO 300/f4 G + 1.4x converter users around in Oz, maybe we need to get together for a shoot?.



Regards Dynax

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 15 October 2008 at 13:07
I PM'd Dynax - he's in Melbourne, I'm in Perth, 4000km away. The tyrany of distance. Perth's not a great place for meet-ups .


Posted By: revdocjim
Date Posted: 15 October 2008 at 17:58
Thanks for the helpful and well written info, Frank. I may have missed it but I don't recall any mention of WB settings. Do you just go with Auto or do you make in camera adjustments depending on the lighting?

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Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 00:31
Jim - I use auto WB settings with RAW. When I open the image, I do warm up the colour temperature a tiny bit until it "looks right" on my monitor. Since writing the article, I've only been using CS3 for raw processing.


Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 19 October 2008 at 14:40

I just found the Dyxum web site two days ago (joined immediately!) and was instantly drawn to your BIF article. Birds have been my favorite subjects for many years, so much so that my wife groans a little every time I point my lense in that direction. As the AF on my A100 is rather slow, most of my best shots of birds are stationary, but I do get lucky once in a while with a BIF. Do you have any advise for those of us with cameras that are not so quick to lock on with AF?

Thanks... Brian

P.S. I too use AF-C. Most often the opportunity for a good shot is gone in a moment and, with AF-C, I just have to center the bird in the frame and don't have to worry about accidently focusing on some nearby foliage.

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 19 October 2008 at 15:05
Hi Brian. I'm glad you found the article useful. You mentioned that you use an A100, but didn't mention which lens you use. I find that the lens is just as important. There are 2 BIG factors in getting good focus on BIF. The first is the focus limiter on the lens - set it to 5-10 metres so that if you miss the focus, the lens doesn't have so far to travel when it searches. The second factor is finding a nice open area, and locking focus when the bird is at a distance, and just track it until it's close enough to shoot. I still have lots of misses when I catch a nearby bird out of the corner of my eye and quickly try to lock on. Stay alert and keep scanning the distance for birds.

Most of the photos at the beginning of this article were taken with the KM 5D, which from all accounts is slower to focus than the A100 (which I've never used). Yes, the A700 is faster to focus than the 5D, but the 5D was good enough for me. Lots of practice helps.

I also get "that" look from my wife. I just tell her that if I wasn't chasing the feathered birds, I'd be chasing the non-feathered variety .

Cheers, Frank

Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 19 October 2008 at 16:06
Frank, I'm using a Sony 75-300 f/4.5-5.6 (SAL75300). I'll have to try the focus limiter idea. Thanks... Brian

Posted By: Hans Toom
Date Posted: 16 December 2008 at 17:52
Hi Rich again,

WOW!! Stunning photographs. I will get into detail on this later. Thanks.


Hans Toom

Posted By: Janneman1967
Date Posted: 23 June 2010 at 09:26
Thank you very much Frankman. Very usefull tips for BIF and i'm going to practice right away.

Do you have any new tips since the last post?


Sony a7III / Sony Carl Zeiss 16-70mm F4 ZA OSS Vario-Tessar T* E / Sony FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 23 June 2010 at 11:06
Thanks Jan

I'll update this article when I have a bit more time. The best advice I can give in brief is "the more I practice the luckier I get".


*** Sony A850 * A700 * Minolta 5D and other stuff ***

Posted By: chito beach
Date Posted: 22 November 2010 at 16:12
Frank great write up thanks for sharing with us.

I use the same process as you when shooting the A100. Center weighted or spot focus and AF-C for lens I use either the Tokina 80-400mm or the Sigma 50-500mm.

I have just recently purchased the A55 and from reports you can not track fast moving birds in the EVF. Well that's not true it is different but it is doable and the AF system in the A55 is much faster and accurate.

I have only had the chance to try it several times due to weather in the Pacific Northwest, but did not have any issues.

Maybe start up a BIF training thread and give pointer to those of us less experienced?

Thanks again for your work here!

Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 24 November 2010 at 08:23

Brian - I wish I had an opportunity to try out the A55 AF speed. From all reports, it's better than the A700. Nevertheless, I've found the A700 OK for 95% of situations. Once you're aware of the limitations of your gear you can find ways of improving your hit rate through technique and lots of practice.

Once you've had your A55 for a while, it would be interesting to get a detailed report from you. I'm sure others would be interested too.

Cheers, Frank

*** Sony A850 * A700 * Minolta 5D and other stuff ***

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