NEW Advanced Assignment # 2: Macro without Macro
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Category: Dyxum Photographs
Forum Name: Photographic Assignments
Forum Description: Photographic assignments to improve your skills and abilities
URL: https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59084
Printed Date: 24 March 2023 at 09:25
Topic: NEW Advanced Assignment # 2: Macro without Macro
Posted By: pegelli
Subject: NEW Advanced Assignment # 2: Macro without Macro
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 21:53
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This is the NEW Advanced Assignment #2:
The topic is Macro Without Macro and the idea is to enter the wonderful world of macro shots ... without a macro lens. Strictly speaking - direct use of any 1:1 or 1:2 macro lenses is not the intention of this assignment and therefore not allowed. I suggest using one of your "non-macro" lenses and employ one of the techniques listed below. Also realize macro is really 1:1 and higher, and 1:2 is really more "close focus" than macro, so for this assignment we're really looking 1:1 and higher magnifications. There is quite a number of them to choose from: * close-up lenses, * macro rings (aka extension tubes), * macro bellows, * reversing mount (i.e. one lens mounted on the body in reversed position), * reversing ring (i.e. reversed lens mounted on the other lens). While I realise that there are some members that do not have necessary equipment, I think that it is not very budget-stressing to get a reversed ring, or reversed mount, or a set of some close-up lenses and start "macro adventure" without spending too much. (besides, macro lenses are not real macro  - what is 1:1 if you can get e.g. 4:1?)
Remember, this is an advanced assignment so we're expecting technically and compositionally good photographs and the AE's, mods and admins will put the bar pretty high for a pass. Any flaw will let you go back and try again. Last request: pls. describe the set-up you used (camera, lens(es), rings, tripod + assembly, etc. etc.) so we can all see and learn from the endless possibilities that exist in this field.
------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Replies:
Posted By: alphatini
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 06:27
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 12:38
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Good example, great sharpness on the eye. I assume the limited dof and the coin not exactly parallel to the sensor was specifically chosen to do that. I think it worked well. Maybe I would have only blurred the sharp "N" at the left in PP which is now mildly distracting, but won't hold that against a pass. Good luck with the next one. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: alphatini
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 16:21
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Thanks Pieter. For the "N" i knew it was distracting i thought cropping was not allowed.
As for to clone it or PP it, not yet!!! it's only been a week since i've installed GIMP... :-) My APS-C sensor is 23.6 mm width and the coin's surface on the uncropped photo is +/- 11mm. Macro ratio was around 2.1:1 ; if i'm right in my maths .... Regards, and up to my next assigment ------------- |
Posted By: Berean
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 20:33
Okay, my submission using a close up filter. No cropping, but marginally desaturated, and hue changed slightly (? +5) to strengthen the image. Some small scratches cloned out. Resized in PS to 800. CD with water drops added for interest: Can you see my hand?
 ------------- Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence: Roger Waters. A700, Sig 10-20, 17-70, 70-200, Min 24-85, 28, 50, Vivitar 100 macro, HVFL 42AM |
Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 20:42
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@Berean: Ian, Can you provide a bit more information about the lens and diopter rating for the closeup filter? Thanks... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: Berean
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 20:58
Sorry, Brian: I wasn't thinking. Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL lens (about 12 years old) from my Minolta days, that came with a free Sigma close up filter (72mm diameter) but no other information available. Allowed me to focus closer to the water droplets, from approximately 1 metre to roughly 30cm. ------------- Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence: Roger Waters. A700, Sig 10-20, 17-70, 70-200, Min 24-85, 28, 50, Vivitar 100 macro, HVFL 42AM |
bms44974 wrote:Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 07:08
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Berean, looking at the picture it seems about 1:2 (on the sensor, which is what counts) so it's more close focus then real macro, which theoretically only starts at 1:1. Eyeballing it looks you have a length of 4 to 5 cm on the CD. If my calculation is off let me know, but otherwise pls. try again with something with a higher magnification.
Nice shot btw, I like the reflections and the very warm toning. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: Caddis
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 07:25
KM 7D with Sony G 70-300mm and Raynox DCR-150 at 100mm. F19.
T
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Posted By: brettania
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 07:49
| @ Caddis -- How does the shot compare with life-size? |
Posted By: Caddis
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 08:07
| @ brettania -- The hook is about 11mm long |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 19:54
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OK then it's still bigger than 1:1 (on the sensor of 24 mm this scene is abt 33 mm wide), so pls. try again and try to aim for something bigger than live size.
Btw, not a bad shot and the colour contrast between yellow hook and blue background give it a nice "kick". ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: ChrBra
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 23:34
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Ok! hereīs my first try at an advanced assignment, it may not be enough but if itīs one thing, itīs beyond 1:1.
Hereīs a detail shot of my Thors Hammer. a700 reversed Konica Hexagon AR 28 mm f 3,5 handheld 1/60 sec with Sigma 530 flash bounced in roof 
and 1:1 with Sony 30 mm 2,8 for comparsion. 
Regards Christer ------------- My Gear a6000, SEL 35 1,8, Sigma 60 2,8, Min 200 f2,8, 135 f2,8 Min 50 1,4 RS https://www.flickr.com/photos/chr13bra/ |
Posted By: alphatini
Date Posted: 16 February 2010 at 06:21
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nice ------------- |
Posted By: ChrBra
Date Posted: 17 February 2010 at 00:27
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Tnx alphatini, just hoping that "The Judgde" like it as well ------------- My Gear a6000, SEL 35 1,8, Sigma 60 2,8, Min 200 f2,8, 135 f2,8 Min 50 1,4 RS https://www.flickr.com/photos/chr13bra/ |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 17 February 2010 at 06:43
ChrBra, forgot about that one  . I saw it but didn't have time to react and didn't come back to it. Good you "bumped".
I think sharpness suffers a bit using that lens so close, but there's still plenty of detail and texture to see for a pass. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: ChrBra
Date Posted: 17 February 2010 at 08:03
Thanks Pieter, no problemo. I might re-shot this assignment when my "new" tripod arrives, this was more to see what kind of magnification the reversed 28 mm would give. / Regards Christer ------------- My Gear a6000, SEL 35 1,8, Sigma 60 2,8, Min 200 f2,8, 135 f2,8 Min 50 1,4 RS https://www.flickr.com/photos/chr13bra/ |
Posted By: Basil
Date Posted: 18 February 2010 at 03:52
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My first use of the A700 for Macro. (I usually use my A100)
MC Rokkor 50 1.4 with stacked Kenko extension tubes (12mm+20mm+36mm) ISO 200 f11 @1 sec. w/ Opteka ring light http://basil-owen.smugmug.com/Photography/Things/10627280_XkPvG#790970510_sd9YF-A-LB"> 
------------- To see is to enjoy. To see beyond is to rejoice. A77Mark II; A6600; A99; various film bodies and an ever-changing collection of lenses |
Posted By: snajper
Date Posted: 18 February 2010 at 04:50
SAL55200 with reversed zuiko 50mm OM 1.8
 ------------- A580 + too many lenses |
Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 18 February 2010 at 14:29
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@Basil: Even I could thread that needle! Given that you stacked all three tubes in the set, I'm sure you have achieved the "greater than 1:1" objective (and receive a pass on the assignment), but I am curious about the actual dimensions in the image. An off-center (or diagonal)composition would have given the image more impact and moved a step beyond the technical requirements for the assignment.
@snajper: You have earned a pass on the assignemnt. Some information on the actual size of the image would still be of interest. I do note some vignetting which is common on reverse setups when the outer lens is not fully open or when the focal length of the inner lens is too small. Cheers (and congratulations to both)... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: Basil
Date Posted: 18 February 2010 at 19:00
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Brian,
I did a diagonal view using a Mamiya Sekor 135 2.8 and a bellows. With that set-up the image worked. But when I tried it with the 50 1.4, there was too much of the image out of focus to my liking. Even at f11, there is a very narrow field of focus. (Note how quickly the thread gets blurry). Stopping down further made lighting an issue at such a close working distance. It just looked better this way (at least to me). ------------- To see is to enjoy. To see beyond is to rejoice. A77Mark II; A6600; A99; various film bodies and an ever-changing collection of lenses |
Posted By: Berean
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 00:14
Okay, another try! 50mm f/1.7 fully open on camera body, with 18-70mm (@ 70mm) kit lens (borrowed from a neighbour) reversed, and aperture held open using a piece of rolled paper. Not attached using a ring, but placed together, A4 paper wrapped around both to keep together, and stuck with tape, and a pringles tube cut down and slid over the top to keep things secure. My watch, side lit, taken using a tripod, ISO 100.
Hope this is acceptable, it was certainly fun learning. ------------- Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence: Roger Waters. A700, Sig 10-20, 17-70, 70-200, Min 24-85, 28, 50, Vivitar 100 macro, HVFL 42AM |
Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 00:33
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@Berean: Well done, Ian! Sounds a lot less expensive (and more fun) than the closeup lenses and extension tubes you were considering . Consider yourself passed. Cheers... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: Heyckendorff
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 01:04
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Is it allowed to use an older photo if itīs made with the mentioned techniques? Praktika 50mm f:1.7 reversed on my Beercan.
If so I have a very cool B&W beetle and a 40 million year old spider captured in a piece of amber  ------------- http://heyckendorff.blogspot.com/ - My Blog |
Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 01:13
@Heyckendorff: Sorry, Werner  . The assignment rules (on the previous page) say no "mining" of old photos. Of course we'd all be interested to see the shot, but it would not qualify for as passing entry for the assignment. 
Cheers... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: Heyckendorff
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 14:15
Well there goes my predicted relaxing afternoon on the couch 
Then I have to start a fresh on the amber spider. ------------- http://heyckendorff.blogspot.com/ - My Blog |
Posted By: Basil
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 15:12
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Berean,
Great shot and a great low-cost way to get it, especially using a couple of non-exotic lenses. That's the fun of this type of photography...you can get really good results for not a lot of $$$. It's like making your own light modifiers out of cardboard or bubble wrap. While some may be intimidated to show up in public with such "tacky" equipment, you can have tons of fun in the privacy of your own home/yard. ------------- To see is to enjoy. To see beyond is to rejoice. A77Mark II; A6600; A99; various film bodies and an ever-changing collection of lenses |
Posted By: Berean
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 15:57
Thanks, Basil! No expense whatsoever!
I'm relatively new to this hobby, and I'm just beginning to realise (since being on Dyxum) that one doesn't need a great deal of dosh for good results! ------------- Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence: Roger Waters. A700, Sig 10-20, 17-70, 70-200, Min 24-85, 28, 50, Vivitar 100 macro, HVFL 42AM |
Posted By: Heyckendorff
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 22:37
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On display here is a 30 million old spider embedded in a piece amber.
I found the amber on the beach on a photo trip to the White Cliffs of Moen. Nothing was visible when I first looked at it at the beach, but when I came home I decided to polish it. And what a joy to find this little spider trapped inside. The photographs is all taken with my Beercan + a reversed Prakticar Pentacon 50 mm f/1.8 I didīnt attach the 50 mm to the Beercan, I just held it in front of it. This complicates things a bit since one hand is occupied by holding the 50 mm. My lightning rig was a bit odd. I placed the amber on the glass on a 12 volt torch light. On each side of the amber I placed two small diode lights with very cold light. I had to shoot at ISO 800 which caused some grain, but in at least one of the photographs I think it adds to the overall mood. The pictures isīnt as sharp as I had hoped, but to be honest I donīt know why. Shutter times was sufficient to prevent motion blur and mis focusing isīnt the problem. It might be simply because the amber isīnt 100% clear Photographs is taken with my 7D - ISO 800 - aperture between 9 and 22 and shutter times from 1/160 sec to 1/640 sec. All pictures is taken hand held but with my hands resting on various objects. The spider is approx. 1 mm long The Lightning set up. 
 ------------- http://heyckendorff.blogspot.com/ - My Blog |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 09:27
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A beautiful object Heyckendorf. Indeed a nice story about finding it. Nature's treasures are everywhere but this is a very special piece.
As far as the assignment, a flying colours pass I would say, I especially like the colours in the third, but all are good! ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: ChrBra
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 09:52
Do you allow everything in here now?? to post three pics breakes the rules big time!! Iīd say that you send him back to the drawingboard asap or you will have total anarchy here soon!!
Fantastic pictures Werner, it alomst looks like itīs alive, great work that you might enter in some National Geographic comp or something. Regards Christer PS This post may content some irony  ------------- My Gear a6000, SEL 35 1,8, Sigma 60 2,8, Min 200 f2,8, 135 f2,8 Min 50 1,4 RS https://www.flickr.com/photos/chr13bra/ |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 11:37
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It must have been (too) late last night, didn't notice that Christer .
You're right, 2 is officially the max, but the extra shot showing the set-up doesn't count so it's only 1 too many. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: Heyckendorff
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 15:09
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Oh my do I have to learn to read instructions more carefull.
And now I realize that the number of pictures isīnt the only rule I broke. I must admit that I cropped more than allowed. Not to cheat but because I didīnt read the rules properly. Pegelli...Thanks for your comment. Feel free to move my entry to The Dyxum Open views due to braking the regulations here
ChrBra...I always had some troubles with rules I must admit
Regarding the photographs I also feel it very strange that this little spider, after so many million years, still look like it was just trapped inside the resin minutes ago. Itīs so strange to think about how the world looked that particular day the spider met his or hers final destination. What a magnificent preservation resin is. After I found this piece of amber I started digging the internet for more about insects in amber. My search brought my attention to a Danish woman called "The Amber Lady" living in the north west of Denmark. She has the worlds biggest collection of insects embedded in amber. More than 80.000 pieces of amber containing more than 120.000 insects and other animals. She even has a piece with a small lizard in it...isīnt that amazing? Unfortunately I haveīnt succeeded in getting in contact with here. Iīd really like to take more pictures of amber insects. alphatini...great magnification. You say itīs just a reversed 28 mm? Does that mean that you just hold it by hand against the mount flange of the camera? ------------- http://heyckendorff.blogspot.com/ - My Blog |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 15:17
Won't move it open views, I'll just retract your pass  .
You will just have to hang out until eternity for this careless behavior .
Wouldn't mind seeing the uncropped pictures to give you the pass though 
I'll also look up the "Amber Lady" as the whole story about this trapping and conservation intrigues me a lot, especially since it's a natural process totally unaided by man's hand. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: Heyckendorff
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 15:55
pegelli...here is two...just two...un-cropped....I repeat un-cropped versions of the illegal photographs
About the 1:1 magnification iīm a little confused. To be honest I donīt know what that means? 1:1 of what? The spider is approx 1 mm. 1:1 would then mean that it had to be 1 mm on the screen?...nahh....1 mm on the sensor? ..maybe...1 mm on a paper copy straight from the camera then?....nahh donīt think so either. Here is a link to the http://netnatur.dk/netfauna/rav/arkiv/ravfruen-i-skagen/ - Amber Lady Itīs in Danish but iīm sure google can translate it into something very hilarious
Itīs not here own website I think. The pictures of the amber pieces clearly shows she could use some more inspiring photographs of the amber insects ------------- http://heyckendorff.blogspot.com/ - My Blog |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 16:10
Werner, Your pass is rednstated 
The definition of macro magnification is on the sensor (or in the old days the film) , so if the spider is 1 mm it needs to be about 1 cm on my screen (where you're whole picture is a little over 24 cm). Since it's it's something like 3-5 cm (depending what direction you measure) it is for sure a larger magnification as 1:1. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: ChrBra
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 22:09
You Danish!! Never sticks to the rules
These two last is great as well  ------------- My Gear a6000, SEL 35 1,8, Sigma 60 2,8, Min 200 f2,8, 135 f2,8 Min 50 1,4 RS https://www.flickr.com/photos/chr13bra/ |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 01:36
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Reversed Rokkor 50mm f/1.7 on A700 body, wide open. Metz 54 MZ-3 fired remotely. ISO 200, 1/250.
Flesh! 
Alien. 
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Posted By: wilsondiver
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 02:15
I hope this qualifies, taken with the 70-400G and cropping with the 850...
 ------------- A-99II+VG, A-850+vg,A-700+vg,CZ 24/70mm,SAL 70-400G Min 50mm 1.7, 100mm macro 2.8,75-300 Big Beercan,Sigma 70/200mm EX DG 2.8 1.4 2.0 TC, 400mm 5.6, 24/70mm 2.8 EX DG, 12/24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HVLF58AM |
Posted By: brettania
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 02:27
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@ Mark
Two obvious questions.... 1) how much cropping? and 2) any use of a diopter or reversed lens? That lens by itself does not do macro. |
Posted By: wilsondiver
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 02:39
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Brettania,
I would say about 85% crop and no diopter... i shot this photo this afternoon, i was at the limit of close focus @ 400mm.. WOW what a wonderful lens... ------------- A-99II+VG, A-850+vg,A-700+vg,CZ 24/70mm,SAL 70-400G Min 50mm 1.7, 100mm macro 2.8,75-300 Big Beercan,Sigma 70/200mm EX DG 2.8 1.4 2.0 TC, 400mm 5.6, 24/70mm 2.8 EX DG, 12/24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HVLF58AM |
Posted By: brettania
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 02:52
| Agree that it is a wonderful lens, but must say 1:3.7 (0.27Ũ) is not macro. Have a look again at the instructions for this Assignment, and please try again (we might get another very pleasant shot!). |
Posted By: wilsondiver
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 02:57
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Will do Brettania, thanks for the kind words ------------- A-99II+VG, A-850+vg,A-700+vg,CZ 24/70mm,SAL 70-400G Min 50mm 1.7, 100mm macro 2.8,75-300 Big Beercan,Sigma 70/200mm EX DG 2.8 1.4 2.0 TC, 400mm 5.6, 24/70mm 2.8 EX DG, 12/24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HVLF58AM |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 07:17
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santiclaws, any rough idea of the magnification. First shot is a bit nondescript but the second alien melon looks to be OK for a pass if the magnification is enough (bigger than about 1:1 on the sensor) ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 08:52
Those seeds are about 0.5 cm if that helps.
(EDITED to make it clear you mean 5mm or 0.5 cm) |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 17:50
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Soooo, do we have a final verdict?
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Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 19:51
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@santiclaws: is that 5mm along the long or short axis? These appear to be cantelope seeds which can be (in my experience) about 1cm in length. As the A700 sensor is 23.5 x 15.6 mm your subject would have to be smaller in order to qualify. Thanks... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 22:36
I meant along the long axis, but I did not measure them, so they may indeed be closer to 1cm than .5cm. So the question then is whether it is even possible to do a macro with a reversed lens? I was shooting at the minimum focusing distance, wide open. Would coupling it to my 50mm AF lens help increase magnification? I tried that, but it produced very heavy vignetting, which would force me to crop heavily, thus violating the rules .
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 22:46
Or post with the vignette and make it part of the composition. Can be done I think depending on subject. 1:1 or larger can be dome with just a reversing ring, but everything depends on the length, for 1:1 or larger the distance between the sensor and the nodal point (roughly middle) of the lens needs to be larger than twice the focal length. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: alphatini
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 22:49
TY ... yes just holding against the mount flange. if i remember correctly the magnification was greater when the built-in hood was extended. It puts the "reversed" lens 3/8 inch or (9mm)from the mount flange of the camera. http://kurtmunger.com/minolta_af_28mm_f_2_8_reviewid95.html - i didn't mesured the built-hood took the info here... ------------- |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 23:03
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 23:09
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Focal length is the mm which describes the lens, i.e a 50/1.7 has a focal length of 50 mm. This is the distance between the sensor plane and the nodal poit of the lens when focussed at infinity. At 1:1 the distance between sensor and nodal point and then from nodal point to sublject at 1:1 are all exactly double the focal length, so for a 50/1.7 (or whatever other 50 mm lens) is 100 mm. Except for special lens designs the nodal point is roughly the middle of the lens. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 19:11
OK, I think I'm being dense here, but I'm confused again.
As I'm reading the above post, the focal length is equal to the distance between the nodal point and the sensor, but then you said "the distance between the sensor and the nodal point (roughly middle) of the lens needs to be larger than twice the focal length." I thought the distance between the nodal point and the sensor was the focal length. How can it be twice as long as itself? What am I missing?
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 22:06
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santiclaws, sorry to confuse you, I'm not a good teacher.
The focal length is the distance between the sensor and the nodal point when when the lens is focussed at infinity. This distance (between the sensor and nodal point) needs to be doubled for focussing the lens at 1:1 magnification. If I still confuse you let me know, and I'll try further. If you want a very good (but also very technical) explanation and all the formulas that go with it see http://www.mhohner.de/formulas.php - this page on Michael Hohner's site (btw, he is also a member here) ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 22:35
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I checked out Michael's page and frankly, the explanation is so far above my head I can't even see it... Thank you for taking the time to try and explain it and sorry I'm such a poor student.
I guess what I really need to figure out is the practical application, without necessarily having to understand the theory behind it. In order to increase magnification using a lens reversed directly on the body, do I move closer to my subject? What does the distance need to be between the nodal point, which is about the middle of my lens, and the subject? If I put my AF lens between the reversed lens and the body this would serve as a sort of extension tube, thus increasing magnification? |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 22:39
santiclaws, maybe this is better : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_%28optics%29 - Wikipedia (Thans to Brian/bms44974 for pointing out the link to me  )
If you put a AF lens between your reversed lens and your body a whole new (and more complicated) set of optical formulas apply and I won't even attempt to describe those. Basically to increase magnification you move closer to the subject and move the lens away from the sensor to keep focus. At 1:1 all distances are equal: sensor to nodal point and nodal point to subject are both exactly twice the focal length. So for larger than 1:1 you move even closer and the distance lens to subject gets smaller and the distance sensor to lens gets larger. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 22:43
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@santiclaws: I'm a trained mathematician and I still have trouble getting my head around optics. For me, the bottom line is getting the subject to appear larger on the sensor (at 23.5mm x 15.6mm for your A700) than it is in real life. Cheers... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 23:07
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Thanks, Brian. I think I understand the bottom line as to the goal, the question is how do I do get there using a reversed lens?
I'm going to experiment using the two 50mm combo again. Unfortunately I just sold my actual macro lens, life would have been easy by simply attaching the reversed lens to the macro. Oh well, it appears I'm in imminent danger of actually learning something. |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 08:22
OK, let's try this again. Same reversed 50mm, this time with a 1.4x TC. Slightly cropped on the left, about 5%, levels adjustment. 1/80, ISO 200. String is about 0.8mm thick.
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 08:35
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Santiclaw, may I congratulate you on a pass. If the string is about .8 mm the whole scene is somewhere between 15 and 20 mm wide so the magnification is a little over 1:1.
Secondly, I also like the shot. Maybe I would have cloned out the second string and shadow at the right top, but can imagine the whole picture becomes "too empty" when you do that. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: santiclaws
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 08:56
WooHoo!! Please send my winnings in gold! I did debate cloning out the second string, and decided against it for reasons you suggested. I think the second string adds a bit of interest to the photo, I intentionally kept it in the shot. I have a similar one that doesn't have the second string and I don't like it as much. Thanks for all your help! |
Posted By: Pavel
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 16:03
A-900 set of ext.tubes+2xTc and reversed 50/1.4 ------------- A-900+VG;16f/2.8fish;50f/1.4,Sig20f/1.8;Tammy 90f/2.8;Sony135STF;M200f/2.8HS;M 200 f/4 Macro;M 300f/4HS;Sony500f/8reflex;M600 f/4HS;M3x1xmacro;16-35CZ;24-70CZ;70-200SSM;70-400SSM;1.4xTc;2xTc |
Posted By: Pavel
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 16:05
The setup
 ------------- A-900+VG;16f/2.8fish;50f/1.4,Sig20f/1.8;Tammy 90f/2.8;Sony135STF;M200f/2.8HS;M 200 f/4 Macro;M 300f/4HS;Sony500f/8reflex;M600 f/4HS;M3x1xmacro;16-35CZ;24-70CZ;70-200SSM;70-400SSM;1.4xTc;2xTc |
Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 16:19
@Pavel: I'm sure that your subject is not intended to in any way depict the referees of these assignments  . That's a pass. Cheers... Brian------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: cthep2
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 08:09
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my 1st photographic assignment try:
A700 + 18-70mm @ 70mm + reversed cannibalized yashica lens + diffused flash ** cannibalized 35-70mm yashica lens - only retain front & back element. Size of insect : around 7mm Exif : available Working distance : around 2-3 inches Setup : 
Shot without cropped / with vignetting - just a bit of levels adj. 
Add the border instead of cropping, with curves adj. 
Cheers! /chris ------------- Pics talk, Cam doesn't! http://www.flickr.com/photos/cthep2 - MyFlickr http://500px.com/chrisdapito/ - 500Px - Recorded Momentz |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 09:15
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Chris, a pass with flying colours (in more sense than one)
@ Pavel, I applaud your innovative lens mounting solution. I've seen this type of tape used for many purposes but this is another first ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: TheRuttmeister
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 14:02
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My first attempt at any of the assignments... so please be gentle!
And I was inspired by the shots I saw here and had the kit to hand, so decided to try some macro: 
The tip of the extruder for a 3D printer... the opening is 0.3mm 
And heres a used one. It extrudes ABS plastic, the black crud is burnt on plastic (it runs at about 230 degrees c). Both taken using a 28mm f2.8 MD mount lens with a big stack of extention tubes. Plus an led headtorch I had handy for some extra light. ------------- A300, Some Lenses. Some broken some not... Anyone got a broken Sig 24mm superwide II? |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 13 April 2010 at 08:02
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Wow TheRuttmeister, that's more than 5x magnification on the sensor and even much more on the screen, despite the relatively small post size. If that's not a pass I don't know.
I also like how the milling grooves come out in the first and composition wise it's nice as well how you've used the light and shadow and the two color background. In the second I would have preferred a bit more shadow detail in the black char (especially right below the nozzle) and the background here is less nice with the undefined light blob. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: TheRuttmeister
Date Posted: 13 April 2010 at 11:15
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Ah, sorry, yeah the images are not cropped, scaled for web only. Originals on my http://www.flickr.com/photos/45928876@N02/ - flickr
I'm still not very good at the whole posting of pics. And the lighting was the hardest part, theres about 2mm between the lens and the subject, made getting light in there rather difficult! ------------- A300, Some Lenses. Some broken some not... Anyone got a broken Sig 24mm superwide II? |
Posted By: Dudger
Date Posted: 22 April 2010 at 23:19
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Hope its ok to do an Advanced before finishing all the intermediates - its just something i had been playing with.
Setup = An MC Rokkor 50mm 1.7 lens, MC fitting ground off and an old A mount Push fitted(Not finished that yet because i cant so far get infinity focus) - but i used a reversing mount and it gave somewhat less than 1:1 
Tried the reverse on my 18~55 - forget it - not enough light. Had a Broken Sony projector - so dissasembled the lens unit and got a chunk that amazingly Push fitted straight into the remains of the MC fitting. Hoorah - That gives me 1.3:1 and is very useable. Also tried creating a lensed container to put things in to boost it further - that gave me 1.8:1 - maybe i should get an extender and try that. Pic 1 - this is the logo on a sony lens cap - its 10mm deep - so the uncropped image is about 1.8:1 if my maths is correct - however its probably not attractive enough for this assignment
Shot with tripod 
Pic 2 - This is my homemade macro on its own - if Pic 1's maths is right then this one is 1.3:1 - and hopefully it will get me a pass ? (NB- shot for this assignment, but used the image in the flowers thread because i was pleased with it - hope thats ok) shot hand held  ------------- Dave A330 - SAL16~105 - Min100-300 APO - Min50/1.7 - 5600HSD |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 23 April 2010 at 07:05
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Good stuff Dudger and you can do the assignments in any order so no problem.
Also I applaud your innovative use of "optical elements" at your disposal for this assignment. The abberations are quite strong, but in the second picture they even enhance the picture and work very well with the pattern and lines of the flower heart. No other conclusion than a pass for me. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: stresskiller
Date Posted: 10 May 2010 at 16:08
 sigma 70-210mm
 sigma 70-210mm + reverse rokkor 50mm 1.7
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 10 May 2010 at 20:26
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Nice work stresskiller, and the darkness of the shot adds to the mistery of the words on the face. A pass for and looking forward to your next challenge submission. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: 60HertzJig
Date Posted: 25 June 2010 at 19:52
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Here's my entry! I'm just starting the assignments, but since I recently got a reversing ring, I decided I'd jump right into this one.
Entry: 
The setup: 
Shot using my KM7D. My Minolta 50mm f/1.7 prime was attached to my 7D, and a Rokkor 50mm f/1.7 reverse mounted to it. I'm still new to macro, but I believe this should result in a 1:1 ratio. The Rokkor lens was set wide open at f/1.7 (wow what a shallow depth-of-field); the vignetting gets ridiculous at smaller apertures. By using a tripod, I tried to level the camera's focal plane parallel to the magazine so I could get the best focus edge-to-edge. As for the exposure itself, this was shot in manual mode, bulb (1s), f/2.8, ISO100. I shot in a dim room, using a bounced flash to provide light (to try and eliminate shadows and uneven light). Minimal post-processing; just adjusted the white balance and curve a bit. Resized with no crop. Edit: 'DETAILS' measures just under 20mm wide, for reference. |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 26 June 2010 at 07:30
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That's certainly a pass 60HerzJig, and a warm welcome to Dyxum.
I think using the word "DETAILS" was very appropriate for the assignment ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: 60HertzJig
Date Posted: 27 June 2010 at 20:07
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Thanks pegelli! I appreciate the welcome.
On to my next assignment then! =] |
Posted By: ulyshut
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 07:27
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my 1st try on this assignment
a piece of apple was placed on a white plate. flash was triggered in the right side. i use my kit lens with 10x zoom macro adaptor (around $40) still learning on lights...  ------------- shoot shoot shoot makes perfect |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 20:18
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Nice shot and a pass ulyshut, I like the general softness of the shot with still some texture and detail in the right spot. Well done for such a simple macro set-up. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: ulyshut
Date Posted: 17 September 2010 at 07:18
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thanks pegelli for the pass on to my next assignment ^^ ------------- shoot shoot shoot makes perfect |
Posted By: petaar
Date Posted: 05 October 2010 at 11:31
Hello everybody! I'm new to the assignments and would appreciate some tips and hints. For this one I've been using a200 and a reversed DT 50f18 (with piece of folded paper to hold the aperture).
ISO 200, 1/125 Hoepli Grande dizionario italiano 2009, "macrofotografia" is about 2mm high 
ISO 400, 1/100 Coin from the Chech Republic, letters are about 3mm high |
Posted By: IA
Date Posted: 05 October 2010 at 12:27
Helios 44-M M42 +extension tubes (12+24mm) plus focus confirmation adapter. 1/1.7 sec F16 sony α350 with tripod and live view focusing
 ------------- http://www.flickr.com/photos/30025892@N03/ - My Flickr |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 06 October 2010 at 16:54
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two passes petaar and IA, very nice ways of doing macro.
petaar, welcome to Dyxum and very brave to start your posting career with the assignments. Since you're asking for tips, unless you consiously want to play with small dof you need to keep your subject parallel to to the sensor. I like the effect in your first shot but the coin might have benefitted from top to bottom sharpness that way. IA, simple shot but the colour and subject bring back nice memories of analog tape recorders I used to play with in my early years. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: IA
Date Posted: 06 October 2010 at 17:17
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Thanks ------------- http://www.flickr.com/photos/30025892@N03/ - My Flickr |
Posted By: petaar
Date Posted: 07 October 2010 at 06:05
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@ pegelli, thanks on the pass and on the tip. DOF is very tight with this kind of macro and aperture fully open with piece of paper - I figure it's less than 0.5mm ------------- A77 A200; SAL50F18, Samyang 8mm F3.5, Samyang 85mm F1.4, Min 70-210 F4, MC-MIR 20mm F3.5 http://www.flickr.com/photos/petaar/ - flckr |
Posted By: rtuss
Date Posted: 19 October 2010 at 02:12
Here are my two attempts at this.
I like that the RGB's are visisble in the white pixels. This is the weather network icon on my blackberry. 
My wife's best friends. |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 19 October 2010 at 04:36
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rtuss, can you describe your set up and technique used for the shots above? ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: rtuss
Date Posted: 19 October 2010 at 12:39
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For the blackberry icon I used the 50/1.8 reversed mounted to the 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens as shown below.
http://s872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/rtuss/?action=view¤t=macrosetup.jpg"> 
For the diamond ring I reversed the lenses. |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 19 October 2010 at 13:27
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A clear pass rtuss, very innovative use of simple equipment to achieve a high magnification with good results.
Did you use your blackberry to shoot your set up ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: Stever
Date Posted: 25 October 2010 at 03:02
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Even though this is my first assignment, I might as well give it a whirl.
Minolta 50mm f1.7 MC + bellows. Knife: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevexiao/4708368382/"> 
iPhone Guts: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevexiao/4708366396/"> 
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 26 October 2010 at 08:03
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@ Stever, a pass as far as I'm concerned. Bellows and simple old rokkor lenses can do very well for macro shots. Especially like the knife, and how it brought out the surface texture of the milled surfaces. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: davydd
Date Posted: 30 October 2010 at 04:26
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I've been experimenting with macro tubes so I thought I'd give this assignment ago. The flower heads are 5mm long.
MD ROKKOR-X 50mm prime and macro tubes. 
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Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 30 October 2010 at 06:32
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a royal pass davydd, another good example of macro (a bit beyond 1:1 I think) without specialised macro equipment. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: Cycletech
Date Posted: 06 November 2010 at 20:49
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This is my first try at an assignment...
The first 3 shots were taken using an a700 with the following setup - a mount 2x teleconverter, a mount to MC mount adapter with glass, MC mount 2x teleconverter, MC 2x teleconverter, MC macro extension tube, MC 28mm 3.5 (wide open), and finally a Hoya +4 close-up. It was a lot of fun getting it all to work.
Shots were handheld with Super Steady off. Light was a $4 flashlight. None of these are crops Lincoln's eye and nose 
Lincoln's Bow-Tie and part of his Kerchief 
'GOD' from the penny 
I can't remenber the set up I used for this, but I like it, so I added it here. 
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Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 06 November 2010 at 21:48
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@Cycletech: Chris, that's a pass. Except for the Perspective Assignment you are allowed to post only two images/entry in the assignments thread. We sometimes make exceptions in this assignment when the third is a photo of the setup/equipment used. Glad you enjoyed this one.
Cheers... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: Allan Olesen
Date Posted: 13 November 2010 at 01:44
The tip of a pozidriv 0 screwdriver.
Konica Minolta 7D. Minolta Beercan at 210 mm. ROWI 55mm Close-up Lens (+4), bought on ebay for L7.99. 55-55 mm Macro Reverse Ring, bought on ebay for L2.18. 49-55 mm Step-Up Lens Filter Ring Adapter, bought on ebay for L1.55. Minolta 35-70 F/4 at 35 mm. A piece of cardboard to keep the aperture on the 35-70 fully open. Minolta 3600 HS(D) in wireless mode. Mini Flash Diffuser Softbox, bought on ebay for L4.39. A piece of A4 paper to reflect the light from the flash. Cardboard boxes, coins, books etc. to support everything on the dining table. Distance to motive approx. 5 cm. Picture not cropped, only resized to 25%. With this setup I can fill the sensor with a motive of 3.6 mm x 2.4 mm. That should be approx. 6.5:1 macro. To show the size of the screwdriver: 
Konica Minolta 7D. Minolta Beercan at 210 mm. ROWI 55mm Close-up Lens (+4), bought on ebay for L7.99. Distance to motive approx. 20 cm. Picture not cropped, only resized to 25%. This photo actually qualifies as a "better than 1:1 macro" photo too. Sensor width is 23.5 mm, and the picture shows 23 mm of the tape measure. ------------- a77 + grip - Sony 16-50/2.8 - Min 24/2.8 - Min 28/2.8 - Min 50/1.7 - Min 35-70/4 - Min 28-135/4-4.5 - Min 70-210/4 - Min 100-400/4.5-6.7 APO - Min 135/2.8 MD - Min 3600 HS(D) |
Posted By: pegelli
Date Posted: 13 November 2010 at 08:13
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Very nice pass Allan, the screwdriver tip is impressive.
I would only clone out the little dark spot in the red background, but that doesn't take anything away from the pass. ------------- You can see the April Foolishness 2022 exhibition https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic141325_post1694580.html#1694580 - here Another great show of the talent we have on Dyxum |
Posted By: grimelda
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 15:12
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firstly, this assignment is awesome.. i tried a whole lot of setups, but the combo minolta 100-300apo@7.1 with reversed md rokkor 50,1.4@2.8 worked best. did some tests and found the magnification ratio to be 2,08:1 ;  uncropped photo of ruler showing 10mm.. translate that ratio of the photolength/1cmruler to a 23,6mm sensor gives 2,0848:1 but anywayz, my entrys: 1...  100300apo/50,1.4 shot handheld, in direct sunlight. fly was about 1,5 cm long 2..  100300apo/50,1.4 unnatural light, rusty mechanics of a broken machine head of a guitar. diameter screw = 8mm also did a shot to check DOF;  to be about 0,5mm (tags of ruler are 1mm apart) |
Posted By: bms44974
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 17:21
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@grimelda: A clear pass. Thanks for the detail. Cheers... Brian ------------- A7rIV; A7rII; A6500; A77; SEL2470Z; SEL90M28G; SEL100400GM; SELP1650; SAL70300G; CZ1680; LA-EA4 |
Posted By: 495
Date Posted: 03 May 2011 at 18:20
Sony a230 + kitlens 18-55mm + kenko 25mm.  ------------- With the power of my mind, I make the end of this sentence dissa |
Posted By: grimelda
Date Posted: 04 May 2011 at 08:31
cant decide which works better.. anyway here i goes for my second pass! pics straight off camera.  found this little spidey hanging in my backyard; this is him hiding in a green tupperware lid. abdomen equals 2-3mm |