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A550 First Black Frame

Printed From: Dyxum.com
Category: Equipment forums
Forum Name: A-mount APS-C
Forum Description: For discussion of all Minolta and Sony a-mount APS-C cameras
URL: https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74903
Printed Date: 02 June 2023 at 15:50


Topic: A550 First Black Frame
Posted By: stuistead
Subject: A550 First Black Frame
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 15:11
My a550 is showing the same problem I used to get with my old Minolta 5D. When the camera is swithced on, the first photo taken in that session will be recorded as a black frame. Everything taken in the same session will be fine. Whereas my 5D used to do this only when it had been switched off for more than 24hrs, on Monday my Sony did it within a 10 minute switched off period. The camera is about 3 months out of warranty but as this seems to be an issue that is becoming more apparent with other users, I wonder if Sony will do a free repair like Minolta did. Has anyone else had the same issue with Sony's latest batch?



Replies:
Posted By: Mescalamba
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 17:39
If its out-of-warranty, you probably wont get free repair. But you may try to suggest (be mean if you need to) that its manufacturing defect, which it is.

Though, Im bit suprised, that they didnt fix it during those 6 yrs. :D


Posted By: photoimpact
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 17:44
My a550 has the same problem. I just learned to live with it. Always waste the first shot after turning it on. And it doesn't always do it, but usually does. It is now my backup camera to a a580, so it's not as relevant. Still annoying, however.


Posted By: Paul07
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 17:50
I'm really surprised to read this...

For 5D/7D, it was not just an exceptionally occuring error, but a simple design default.
I can hardly imagine Sony would make the same mistake as Minolta after fixing this bug first .


Posted By: OniFactor
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 18:34
IIRC, the a450/500/550 will take a black frame to map out hot pixels every once in a while when the camera is restarted. are you sure this isn't what's happening?

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Cam Lewis
a500w/ebaygrip|Dynax7|Sigma70-200f/2.8IIHSM|Sigma24-60f/2.8|SigmaEF-610DGSuperFlash


Posted By: stuistead
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 21:07
It certainly never happened for the first 9 months


Posted By: utcreeper
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 21:33
Originally posted by OniFactor OniFactor wrote:

IIRC, the a450/500/550 will take a black frame to map out hot pixels every once in a while when the camera is restarted. are you sure this isn't what's happening?


At least on earlier models, that would happen when the date changed to a new month, but it happened during start-up, not on the first shot.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kreeper - Me @ flickr

Various A-mount gear


Posted By: Sandyw
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 21:33
If you trawl around the forums this issue pretty much affects a small proportion of all Sony APS-c cameras.

My A350 does it, and I have seen reports of it doing it on A300/A450/A500/A550.   However Sony is somewhat reluctant to take it on as an issue as many folks had/have trouble convincing Sony that this is a problem. Symptoms are generally first frame grossly underexposed but all EXIF looks correct. It normally takes about 24hrs to repeat, becoming much more pronounced on high shutter speeds.

However, the good news is that I have not seen any reports indicating that this behavior is terminal for the camera, however if it regularly FFBs every 10mins then that is pretty dire.

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A700 A900 A77 A99 & a bunch of Sony & Minolta AF Lenses

NEX-5n NEX-7 [Canon EOS 5D] plus a menagerie of MF lenses





Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 23:01
I never experienced it when I had a 550.

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Dennis


Posted By: kozmo
Date Posted: 21 April 2011 at 23:35
My a500 does it as well.

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A850 vg, A57 A33. Zeiss 135 1.8, Tamron 200-400 17-50 2.8
Minolta 100 f2, 50 1.7, 85 1.4 RS, , 35-105, sony 30 macro, tokina 19-35, Beercan.




Posted By: artuk
Date Posted: 22 April 2011 at 00:04
Originally posted by Sandyw Sandyw wrote:

If you trawl around the forums this issue pretty much affects a small proportion of all Sony APS-c cameras.

My A350 does it, and I have seen reports of it doing it on A300/A450/A500/A550.   However Sony is somewhat reluctant to take it on as an issue as many folks had/have trouble convincing Sony that this is a problem.


I think what you mean is that Sony probably know about it, but don't want to accept that it is an issue which requires them to provide support outside warranty (rather like the A700 control wheel issues).

The best recourse, in the EU at least, is to go back to the dealer your bought it from - under law they generally have a greater requirement to deal with "unsatisfactory" goods than Sony may think they do.

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Art


Posted By: mmb
Date Posted: 26 April 2011 at 02:14
Originally posted by kozmo kozmo wrote:

My a500 does it as well.


My a500 started doing this during the last couple weeks.

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A580|A500|M50/1.7|TAM17-50/2.8/TAM70-200/2.8|TAM60/2|TAM10-24/3.5-5.6||M75-300/4.5-5.6|M28-80/3.5-5.6| misc MD lenses and bodies


Posted By: tqlla
Date Posted: 08 May 2011 at 01:16
Dang, my a550 started doing it too. Thats annoying. This a550 had a backfocus problem, now this.:(

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Sony A850 | Sony A65


Posted By: tqlla
Date Posted: 08 May 2011 at 01:18
Maybe we should all call on the same day.

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Sony A850 | Sony A65


Posted By: NIKO
Date Posted: 08 May 2011 at 01:40
My Maxxum 5D had this problem. I got it repaired under warranty a few years back. I always felt it was more of a software issue rather than a mechanical one. That is, a software issue that eventually wears down the mechanical part then the problem becomes visible. However, a mechanical fix solved the problem. Perhaps if it is a software issue the problem has now resurfaced.

Who can say for sure?

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A77II|2xA700|5D|7D|2xMaxxum7|CZ1680|1635|2470|S28|50|24105|70200G|1.4X&2XTC|2xF60M|4xF56AM|M50|2885|28135|3570|70210|KM1870|1735|2875|2x3600HSD|Σ10|50|70|85|1020|100300|1.4X&2XTC


Posted By: Leike1
Date Posted: 08 May 2011 at 21:38
What can we do? I had mine A500 repaired last year after app. 3500 clicks and 2 month of use. Then Sony replaced the cameramodule, and the problem was gone. After 13000 clicks it starts over again. Next week I go on a holyday, after wich I will bring it back, again. At least I have my trusty A100 as a backup.

It startes just after april 15th. Last year too. So it's software related. Maybe a factory reset then?


Posted By: NIKO
Date Posted: 08 May 2011 at 23:25
No, a factory reset won't be of any help if in any way it is a software problem. Think of it this way; you have simply a lever. A rotary solenoid is supposed to rotate the lever 15 degrees. The software tells the solenoid to rotate 15 degrees. However, the solenoid itself rotates to 15.3 degrees due to tolerance specifications. Particularly, after start-up and after the first action. Well, this lever is going to slowly, but surely wear. Once it is worn, the first click will always jamb whatever the lever is supposed to trip (in our case the FFB). Well, the lever continues to wear and eventually will lock completely. The fix? A new and preferably modified lever or a software fix.

This is my best guess as to what might be going on. However, I have nothing to base my assumption on.

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A77II|2xA700|5D|7D|2xMaxxum7|CZ1680|1635|2470|S28|50|24105|70200G|1.4X&2XTC|2xF60M|4xF56AM|M50|2885|28135|3570|70210|KM1870|1735|2875|2x3600HSD|Σ10|50|70|85|1020|100300|1.4X&2XTC


Posted By: shadowgunner
Date Posted: 09 May 2011 at 00:12
I wonder if this phenomenon correlates to percentage of continuous shots vs single frame shots?

A friend w/5d has the FFB problem; but also tends to shoot continuous a lot. So far, neither my a300 nor a700 have this problem; but, I rarely shoot continuous frames.

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A6000+ 16-50PZ+55-210,A700+Grip/A300+Grip. M50 1.7 M35-70 f4,M28-85,M100-200,M35-105N,M100-300xi,Sony 18-70.T20-40.LA_EA3


Posted By: NIKO
Date Posted: 09 May 2011 at 05:08
I doubt it. I have a Maxxum 5D and when I shot with it regularly before getting my first A700 I shot it 95% of the time in single frame mode.

Only Minolta and Sony really know what the cause of FFB is.

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A77II|2xA700|5D|7D|2xMaxxum7|CZ1680|1635|2470|S28|50|24105|70200G|1.4X&2XTC|2xF60M|4xF56AM|M50|2885|28135|3570|70210|KM1870|1735|2875|2x3600HSD|Σ10|50|70|85|1020|100300|1.4X&2XTC


Posted By: trainerKEN
Date Posted: 09 May 2011 at 06:38
both my a350 AND a550 have this problem... I find that they do NOT do it when you let it go to "sleep". So, if you're shooting some kind of important event (paid or not), instead of turning it on and off, just let it go to sleep...

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https://www.instagram.com/kenchengphotography/ - Portrait Instagram * https://www.instagram.com/trainerken/ - Street/City/Landscape/Personal Instagram


Posted By: Jaryn
Date Posted: 15 June 2011 at 14:48
I have an a550 that does the black frame thing, often after a lens change. It doesn't seem to do it with the 18-55 kit zoom, but always does it with my Minolta 50 1.4 and Minolta 100-200. Annoying, but so regular that I pop off a double shot as a mater of course.


Posted By: markce
Date Posted: 15 June 2011 at 15:00
Originally posted by Jaryn Jaryn wrote:

I have an a550 that does the black frame thing, often after a lens change. It doesn't seem to do it with the 18-55 kit zoom, but always does it with my Minolta 50 1.4 and Minolta 100-200. Annoying, but so regular that I pop off a double shot as a mater of course.


Funny, when FFB started with me, changing lenses helped to stop it.
Another thing that helped was activating sensor cleaning.


Posted By: matthiaspaul
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 16:40
I tried to keep track of user reports on this problem in various forums in order to find out if the number of occurances of this fault is still within acceptable limits or if we are seeing the wake of a problem on a similar scale as with the Dynax 5D and 7D. Perhaps this list of links to other threads is helpful to some:

http://www.mi-fo.de/forum/index.php?showtopic=27066&view=findpost&p=263015" rel="nofollow - http://www.mi-fo.de/forum/index.php?showtopic=27066&view=findpost&p=263015

Greetings,

Matthias

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Minolta-Forum (MiFo) - German forum for the Minolta, Konica, Konica Minolta and Sony world of photography: http://www.mi-fo.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.mi-fo.de


Posted By: matthiaspaul
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 16:57
Originally posted by Sandyw Sandyw wrote:


My A350 does it, and I have seen reports of it doing it on A300/A450/A500/A550.

Most of the reports I have seen were in regard to the DSLR-A550 and DSLR-A500, but there have been sporadic reports for the DSLR-A100, DSLR-A200, DSLR-A230, DSLR-A300, DSLR-A330, DSLR-A350 and DSLR-A700 exhibiting this problem as well.

I have yet to see any report for the DSLR-A290, DSLR-A380, DSLR-A390, DSLR-A450, DSLR-A560, DSLR-A580, DSLR-A850 and DSLR-A900 so far.

Since you mentioned that you have seen reports for the DSLR-A450, can you point me to one, please?

Thanks and greetings,

Matthias

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Minolta-Forum (MiFo) - German forum for the Minolta, Konica, Konica Minolta and Sony world of photography: http://www.mi-fo.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.mi-fo.de


Posted By: cruzerpics
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 18:51
+1 My a500 has the FBF issue and I sent it while under warranty to Precision Camera and unfortunately when it was returned to me it still had the issue

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http://www.brandoncruz.com - Cruzerpics
http://shop.ebay.com/lumodi/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 - Lumodi Beauty Dish


Posted By: Leike1
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 19:11
The A500 is now more than 3 weeks into repair. The store said it would be 2 to 6 week before it returns. When it still has issues, I wil get a A580. Than the VG wil work, batteries and cards still can be used. The 500 wil get the macrobody, and the A100 will be sold.

So, until than I have to wait , and wait...


Posted By: maraten
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 21:15
I've just gotten a good deal on an used a450, please tell me if it has FBF issues. Would be a big turn down for me.


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Sony a99 and some old-school lenses


Posted By: sonya300
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 21:23
Had A300 for 3 years and just got an A580 and never had an issue with black frames ;-)

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Sony A580,Tam 55-200,Tam 70-300,Sony 18-55,Ken 1.4 Pro,Sony 30 Mac, Sony 35 1.8, Sony F42AM.


Posted By: trainerKEN
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 22:15
I have this issue with both my a350 and a550. I've noticed that if I just let the camera fall asleep, and I wake it up from touching the shutter button, I never get the FFB. Its the only way I can assure myself not to miss a shot.

I have NOT read anywhere of a560/a580 owners having this issue. Maybe Sony has solved the issue without ever officially admitting to the problem

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https://www.instagram.com/kenchengphotography/ - Portrait Instagram * https://www.instagram.com/trainerken/ - Street/City/Landscape/Personal Instagram


Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 22:36
I never experienced this problem with my 550, but I only had it for 6 months before I sold it and bought a 580, no problem with the 580 either.

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Dennis


Posted By: Jaryn
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 14:46
I had to send my a550 off to Sony (here in Japan) to get the shutter button repaired. They checked the shutter record at the same time and discovered a shutter error, so they're replacing the whole shutter unit. I'm wondering whether the shutter error could be the FFB?? The work is being done under warranty, which Sony at first said they wouldn't do.


Posted By: Leike1
Date Posted: 25 June 2011 at 14:54
It's back but not repaired under warrenty. This time they replaced 3 items:
1) beeldfixatie sectie (I think the Steadyshot module, no part list)
2) partnr. 148752611, camerasection, SHUTTER UNIT(CX85700(AFE-1952)
3) partnr. A1741366A, camerasection, SLIDER UNIT FOR D.CAMERA

The second part was replaced a year ago.
So, people who get the camera fixed, do you get the same replacements?
Mine was a total of 260,- repaircosts, but because it was the second time, just outside warrenty, it was approx. 76,00.

So as a replacement I bought the A580.

Leike is shooting again....


Posted By: alpsoandso
Date Posted: 29 June 2011 at 23:16
I have had this problem as well, since I had the 550. I bought it 11 09 2009 (m/d/y). Quite often the first image taken after the camera is switched on will be totally useless (dark/black).
Back in the 1st week of June 2011, it gave several black images during one outing (I count 8 black/dark images out of 92 shots). I cannot recall whether the camera was switched off between each occurance or not. This happened with a 70-200 mm lens attached.

Then yesterday, 28 june, during another outing where I was testing my sony 300 2.8 (just back from repair), I got so many of these dark frames that I gave up testing the lens and just shot with my Nikon equipment.
I noticed that not all the dark frames are as black as the usual problem generates, which leads me to suspect it might not be the same problem. However several frames WERE black/v dark. And no, I did NOT turn the camera off between each black frame occurrence. Some of the black frames happened with single shots, some during and mixed in with multiple shots (hold the shutter down).

After about 193 shots this stopped happening and everything seemed to work ok again.
However.... This puts the gear in doubt. Will I miss my next great shot because of this problem?

I'll continue testing and if there is a problem I'll have to take it in.

Alp




Posted By: davydd
Date Posted: 05 July 2011 at 06:01
I've had my 550 for over a year and have never experienced the FFB problem.



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