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The A77 thread (cont'd)

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Forum Description: For discussion of all Minolta and Sony a-mount APS-C cameras
URL: https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77046
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 06:44


Topic: The A77 thread (cont'd)
Posted By: Micholand
Subject: The A77 thread (cont'd)
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 18:26
Please use this thread for any A77 rumour discussion!

Link to the previous 77 pages of http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/the-a77-thread-first-pic-a77-a65_topic72579.html" rel="nofollow - the A77 thread .


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/Michael

//www.dyxum.com/dforum/topic87334.html - DWEs don't grow on trees! | //www.dyxum.com/dforum/posting-images-and-links-faqs_topic28010.html - Posting images&links FAQ



Replies:
Posted By: JekyllAndHyde
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:02
next 77 pages to go? :)

but i must say i'm pretty dissapointed with Sony dropping the OVF completely :( i was hoping for some real a700 replacement and not better a55

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http://lightstream.blogspot.com - Lightstream


Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:08
Originally posted by JekyllAndHyde JekyllAndHyde wrote:

next 77 pages to go? :)

but i must say i'm pretty dissapointed with Sony dropping the OVF completely :( i was hoping for some real a700 replacement and not better a55


+1

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Dennis


Posted By: photoman
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:15
ISO above 12800 will be useless. Why not get rid of the higher ISO's and then give us ISO 25 and ISO 50?

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A700, Sig 10-20, 17-70, 24 f2.8 400 f5.6 telemacro, Min 85 f1.4, 50 f1.7, 70-210, Cosina 100 macro,


Posted By: Dave_Anderson
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:22
Originally posted by photoman photoman wrote:

ISO above 12800 will be useless. Why not get rid of the higher ISO's and then give us ISO 25 and ISO 50?

Because there is this idea among ignorant marketing types that higher numbers sell(except in golf equipment sales).

Kidding aside, I'd guess that for a sensor to be usable at ISO 25 it would have to be less sensitive overall, or it would just saturate. So your ISO 200-3200 sensor would then be ISO 25-400, not counting "extended ISOs". Of course it's not so simple as that but I don't think I'm too far wide of the mark.

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α900+VG|α100|F20|2xF58|16-35,24-70,135Z|STF|70-400G|50,85 1.4|16,20,28,100M,80-200APO f/2.8|28-135|500f/8|1x-3x Macro|2xMFC-1000|Tiltall+RRS, Bellows


Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:42
Originally posted by photoman photoman wrote:

ISO above 12800 will be useless. Why not get rid of the higher ISO's and then give us ISO 25 and ISO 50?


Just break out the ND filters, if you're gonna have a "semi translucent" film on one end of the lens you may as well throw one on the front end too

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Dennis


Posted By: Howard_S
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:48
I'll be interested to see what the so-called 'NEX Pro' has. A 24MP sensor, a good EVF and build quality (to match that in the A77), and no translucent mirror. What's not to like?

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Howard Stanbury https://www.instagram.com/instadelusions/ - Instagram | http://www.flickr.com/photos/stanbury/ - Flickr | http://stanbury.org/ - Web


Posted By: tigertimb
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:49
Originally posted by photoman photoman wrote:

ISO above 12800 will be useless. Why not get rid of the higher ISO's and then give us ISO 25 and ISO 50?


I'd like the low ISO too, but it is interesting to see over at DXO that the A580 has better ISO 100 than the A900, so I'm both hoping and expecting that there will be improvements with the low ISO too; less noise and greater dynamic range.

And there's speculation that the really high ISO might be done the same way that it's done on the NEX - several shots fired rapidly at very high ISO and then aligned and merged with the purpose of getting rid of the noise.
You can't use it in every circumstance, but it can work exceedingly well and is not just a gimmick - using it, I can shoot at ISO 6400 and get shots that are at least as clean and sharp as a single shot taken at ISO 1600.

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Tim
If you appreciate comments on your photos, how about returning the favour to others . . .


Posted By: maraten
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:52


New picture @ Sony Alpha Rumors

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Sony a99 and some old-school lenses


Posted By: jvsanchez
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:58
a little off topic, but that unmarked lens looks to me suspiciously like a 24-120 f/4 i'd honestly rather have that than a CZ 16-50.

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- Vincent
α7 IV | CZ 55/1.8 | Σ 35/2 C | FE 20-70/4 G | FE 70-200/4 G | FE 200-600/5.6-6.3 G


Posted By: Beachrider
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 21:59
Why are you guys in-love with an arbitrary ISO number? There is nothing magical about ISO-50. It was just useful because of the inherent sensitivity of photo-chemicals. There isn't any reason to expect sensors to have similar sensitivity.

Am I missing something?


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 22:17
Originally posted by jvsanchez jvsanchez wrote:

a little off topic, but that unmarked lens looks to me suspiciously like a 24-120 f/4 i'd honestly rather have that than a CZ 16-50.

Didn't realise that it was something new. Size wise I would think it could be a 24-105/4 - however that would kill off the 28-75/2.8 as a budget option. I don't know about the size of the Nikon 24-120, however the Canon 24-105/4L is bigger. But Minolta lenses used to be smaller then Canon's and this lens seems slightly bigger then the 24-105/3.5-4.5. It looks different then the 16-105 to me. So, is this the legendary much rumored 24-105/4G?

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: Hezu
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 23:18
Originally posted by Stanbury Stanbury wrote:

I'll be interested to see what the so-called 'NEX Pro' has. A 24MP sensor, a good EVF and build quality (to match that in the A77), and no translucent mirror. What's not to like?
Let's see, the most obvious I can think of are:
- slower AF speed than in DSLR/SLT models
- adapter required for mounting A-mount lenses
- with that adapter AF only works with lenses that have builtin motors

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http://hezu.1g.fi/ - Galerie Hezu


Posted By: tigertimb
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 23:40
Originally posted by Beachrider Beachrider wrote:

Why are you guys in-love with an arbitrary ISO number? There is nothing magical about ISO-50. It was just useful because of the inherent sensitivity of photo-chemicals. There isn't any reason to expect sensors to have similar sensitivity.

Am I missing something?


From my perspective, it's not so much about wanting ISO-50, as it is about wanting even less noise and greater dynamic range. (Even on the A900 at ISO-200, there is still considerable room for the noise to be improved within the shadows)

The current emphasis with new cameras at the moment, all seems to be about improving the high ISO which I'd certainly appreciate on occasions, but more typically, I'm able to shoot at ISO-200 and so improvements there would benefit me more often.
And I would guess a typical A900 user might think the same way - if you read any reviews before buying the A900, you already knew that it didn't excel as high ISO performance compared to existing competition, so you probably bought it for other reasons.
So it's great to see Sony catching up with high-ISO performance, but I hope they also stay ahead of the curve on their existing strengths and for me this included their low ISO performance, with high dynamic range making a superb combination when coupled with the 24Mp

(and ISO 50 also gives benefits for some flash photography, long exposures without the need for ND filters and similarly I frequently hit the 1/8000sec limit when shooting with below f2 on a sunny day (in the UK!) and having ISO 25 would help then too)

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Tim
If you appreciate comments on your photos, how about returning the favour to others . . .


Posted By: sybersitizen
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 23:42
Originally posted by Stanbury Stanbury wrote:

I'll be interested to see what the so-called 'NEX Pro' has.

Start a NEX Pro thread to talk about that. Has nothing to do with the A77.

A 24MP sensor, a good EVF and build quality (to match that in the A77), and no translucent mirror. What's not to like?

Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

Let's see, the most obvious I can think of are:
- slower AF speed than in DSLR/SLT models
- adapter required for mounting A-mount lenses
- with that adapter AF only works with lenses that have builtin motors

- and no compatiblity with the Minolta/Sony flash system.

Different evolutionary paths. The NEX may inherit the earth, but it hasn't happened yet. Again, fodder for some other thread.


Posted By: Bob J
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 23:52
Originally posted by Beachrider Beachrider wrote:

Why are you guys in-love with an arbitrary ISO number? There is nothing magical about ISO-50. It was just useful because of the inherent sensitivity of photo-chemicals. There isn't any reason to expect sensors to have similar sensitivity.

Am I missing something?


If you want to use a slow shutter speed and don't have the necessary ND filters, it can be useful.. however if you lose dynamic range it is less useful.

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RBJ ~ http://tinyurl.com/h7uhozk - Moderation on Dyxum


Posted By: Sick
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 23:58
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

- and no compatiblity with the Minolta/Sony flash system.

Different evolutionary paths. The NEX may inherit the earth, but it hasn't happened yet. Again, fodder for some other thread.
Who says that.
No reason to believe a bigger body does not use the iISO hot shoe.
Esp if it comes with build in EVF (that isn't even available for the NEX 3/5 port).


Posted By: RubberDials
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:01
A couple of things we can learn from the picture that we didn't know - the camera has raised numerals on the mode dial like the a900 (but unlike the a850) and the body finish appears to be the dark matte of the a850, rather than the satiny a700/a900 finish.


Posted By: sybersitizen
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:01
Whoa! The SLT family continues to exhibit the 'sexy' gene...



Posted By: sybersitizen
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:04
Originally posted by Sick Sick wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

- and no compatiblity with the Minolta/Sony flash system.

Different evolutionary paths. The NEX may inherit the earth, but it hasn't happened yet. Again, fodder for some other thread.
Who says that.
No reason to believe a bigger body does not use the iISO hot shoe.
Esp if it comes with build in EVF (that isn't even available for the NEX 3/5 port).


Who says what? What exactly is your question? What exactly is your point?


Posted By: Adrian Harris
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:25
Re: A77 - Looks like the hot shoe and tilting rear LCD could obstruct each other.

Re NEX: If people are going to discuss that horrid little - and almost useless - camera range in this thread, which has nothing to do with NEX cameras. Then I can not see why I shouldn't start talking about my Panasonic G1 in this thread either - after all it does use all my Sony lenses.

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Adrian

www.t1000.co.uk


Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:29
Originally posted by RubberDials RubberDials wrote:

A couple of things we can learn from the picture that we didn't know - the camera has raised numerals on the mode dial like the a900 (but unlike the a850) and the body finish appears to be the dark matte of the a850, rather than the satiny a700/a900 finish.


looks like the same mode dial on the 580 actually.

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Dennis


Posted By: RubberDials
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:36
Originally posted by dca1213 dca1213 wrote:

Originally posted by RubberDials RubberDials wrote:

A couple of things we can learn from the picture that we didn't know - the camera has raised numerals on the mode dial like the a900 (but unlike the a850) and the body finish appears to be the dark matte of the a850, rather than the satiny a700/a900 finish.


looks like the same mode dial on the 580 actually.


It does. With two extra settings.


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:42
People don't care about ISO 50 or if it was ISO 45 or 55, the point is many folks want lower ISOs. Film had very low ISOs, options. This is important if you want to take longer photos.   I honestly think the number of folks who want low ISOs is similar to those who want pointlessly high ISOs, so why shift one way.

Sensors just have one sensitivity, it's base. Everything from there on is boosted with circuitry (power). A sensor will always perform it's best at the lowest possible ISO.    Shifting things up just becomes a pain to folks who use those low ISOs. People don't want to have to put ND filters on their lenses. Just like any other filter, people want to avoid filters, it's a pain and it's cost. Also if a person was putting ND filters on at ISO25, and now they only have ISO200 as the base, they have to add more filter to make up for that just to get to where they were.

Originally posted by Beachrider Beachrider wrote:

Why are you guys in-love with an arbitrary ISO number? There is nothing magical about ISO-50. It was just useful because of the inherent sensitivity of photo-chemicals. There isn't any reason to expect sensors to have similar sensitivity.

Am I missing something?


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:45
I want a better idea what is going on with that screen. First thing that popped into my mind was Fatboy Slim video, go 55 seconds in. Interestingly, I like to think that's what Sony engineers look like too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMrIy9zm7QY" rel="nofollow - Video


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:50
It's good to here they both have GPS, if Sony blew that one after the success of the A55, that would have been dumbfounding. In interviews reps had said GPS will come on the higher end models in the future, so it's good to see it stays.

Lets just hope this holds for "NEX-Pro"

I agree, such camera should have it's own thread, but it is semi-relevant as it probably shares many the features of an A77.   Folks should probably look at lots of things as "how does this work for both systems" as they will probably share more than not. So how something might work in an SLT body may be helped/narrowed down by considering how it would work in a NEX body as they would probably want things commonly implemented.


Posted By: RubberDials
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:51


I've always thought of you as more jazz and easy listening than block-rocking beats PT.


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 00:56
I dislike Jazz.

Not much of a fatboy slim person, though it's ok. But I have always liked that scene (girl before is ok too).

Also as an engineer, I always tend to think of engineers from the 70s always looking like that (the dudes with fro's)


Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 01:08
Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

Film had very low ISOs, options. This is important if you want to take longer photos.   


More about finer grain than exposure time from my experience with Kodachrome 25 and Panatomic X 32.

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Dennis


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 01:16
Understandable.   That would lead more into a resolution discussion I think.

One of the things I wish camera makers would do is implement a menu option for reprocity failure. Possibly done by PWM'ing the sensor with time. People can select a log curve and the camera then turns the sensor on and off slower and slower with time, which could possibly have a benefit in power consumption and sensor temps, which could then reduce long exposure noise issues.


Posted By: Pete Ganzel
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 01:53
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:


- and no compatiblity with the Minolta/Sony flash system.

Different evolutionary paths. The NEX may inherit the earth, but it hasn't happened yet. Again, fodder for some other thread.


Oh dear we're off topic.

The E mount video camera Sony produces has a standard Mino/Sony flash shoe. There is likely to be more blurring/blending of the two systems not less.

Pete      


Posted By: sybersitizen
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 03:10
Originally posted by Pete Ganzel Pete Ganzel wrote:

The E mount video camera Sony produces has a standard Mino/Sony flash shoe. There is likely to be more blurring/blending of the two systems not less.

Well, that's a comfort. Hey, maybe the SLTs will eventually grow NEX-like flash connectors on top for the HVL-F7S and F20S.


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 03:17
They might,   my gut feel is that shoe you see on the low end NEX bodies may just be used for them. Flash is basically an included accessory for those models. 7 series and up NEX bodies get iISO flash.

The low end SLTs still have a view finder right in that spot, which makes getting to the circuit bored to do the edge connector difficult, and those bodies all ready have lots of top side area to just maintain the pop up flash.

The shoe on the NEX bodies is more of a function of major cost reduction and there being little room for anything else. A pop up flash would be very hard to fit in those bodies, and sony has left themselves a good place for a pop in EVF.

Only way I see that shoe showing up in SLTs is if Sony makes an SLT with no EVF, then I'd say it would be very likely to see that shoe. But I don't see why Sony would bother with an "A22", at that point just buy a NEX.


Posted By: Pete Ganzel
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 03:23
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by Pete Ganzel Pete Ganzel wrote:

The E mount video camera Sony produces has a standard Mino/Sony flash shoe. There is likely to be more blurring/blending of the two systems not less.

Well, that's a comfort. Hey, maybe the SLTs will eventually grow NEX-like flash connectors on top for the HVL-F7S and F20S.


It just might, as it is a multi purpose data connector that also provides power.

Pete


Posted By: sye46
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 04:09
wow, i can't believe the hype around the A77. I might just pick one up as well....


Posted By: jvsanchez
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 06:35
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by jvsanchez jvsanchez wrote:

a little off topic, but that unmarked lens looks to me suspiciously like a 24-120 f/4 i'd honestly rather have that than a CZ 16-50.

Didn't realise that it was something new. Size wise I would think it could be a 24-105/4 - however that would kill off the 28-75/2.8 as a budget option. I don't know about the size of the Nikon 24-120, however the Canon 24-105/4L is bigger. But Minolta lenses used to be smaller then Canon's and this lens seems slightly bigger then the 24-105/3.5-4.5. It looks different then the 16-105 to me. So, is this the legendary much rumored 24-105/4G?


it might not be anything new. could be the 16-105 but it seems a little more sculpted, where the 16-105's pretty blocky and sharp edged. It reminds me of the Sony 24-105/3.5-4.5. of course, it could be nothing and i could just be hoping and dreaming. But honestly a 24-105(120)/4 is exactly the lens i want.

Back on topic now. sorry for the diversion

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- Vincent
α7 IV | CZ 55/1.8 | Σ 35/2 C | FE 20-70/4 G | FE 70-200/4 G | FE 200-600/5.6-6.3 G


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 06:39
Staying on topic is far to constraining for the A77 thread.


Posted By: Fuzzphoto
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 10:12
About lower ISOs, this is simply impossible for an electronic imaging device. The base sensitivity is fixed in the silicon, and the only thing you can do to get lower ISOs is to overexpose, then attenuate the signal, severely limiting DR. It would simply be no good. If you want to force long exposures on a digital camera, use ND filters. Period.

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Joris' http://fuzzphoto.eu/ - Fuzzphoto gallery | A77II, A700+VG, NEX-5, http://fuzzcraft.com/equipment.html - other gear


Posted By: trainerKEN
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 10:19
people should really stop whining about the EVF until actually looking through one (one with an OLED screen that is), or just move on to other brands already.   

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https://www.instagram.com/kenchengphotography/ - Portrait Instagram * https://www.instagram.com/trainerken/ - Street/City/Landscape/Personal Instagram


Posted By: addy landzaat
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 11:24
Originally posted by trainerKEN trainerKEN wrote:

people should really stop whining about the EVF until actually looking through one (one with an OLED screen that is), or just move on to other brands already.   
You're the only one on this continued A77 thread that is whining about the EVF...

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Anyway, a more constructive response:
Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

It's good to here they both have GPS, if Sony blew that one after the success of the A55, that would have been dumbfounding. In interviews reps had said GPS will come on the higher end models in the future, so it's good to see it stays.

I've no need for GPS, so I would like to see a (cheaper) version without the GPS... What about an A75 without GPS?

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Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101


Posted By: Howard_S
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 11:57
I doubt that the extra cost of providing GPS is actually that huge, and the facility can always be switched off and not used of course.

I'd rather it be properly integrated in the camera than made available as an (expensive) optional extra.

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Howard Stanbury https://www.instagram.com/instadelusions/ - Instagram | http://www.flickr.com/photos/stanbury/ - Flickr | http://stanbury.org/ - Web


Posted By: Fuzzphoto
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 11:58
A GPS receiver and antenna is not likely to cost more than $10 nowadays, so making it optional would probably make both resulting models more expensive.

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Joris' http://fuzzphoto.eu/ - Fuzzphoto gallery | A77II, A700+VG, NEX-5, http://fuzzcraft.com/equipment.html - other gear


Posted By: Beachrider
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 14:57
On the low-ISO function. I, too loved Fuji Velvia-50 and shot some nice negatives on Ektar-25. I think that others are also recalling the sharpness, depth and range extensions that people could get with those films.

I just think that we need to cajole Sony (since they make the sensors for Nikon, Pentax and Sony) to build sensors with extended depth and range, so we can get that again. If you just want to get shallow DOF or portrait-like dreamy images from low f-number lenses, you may need to get those ND-filters in this post-photochemical technology.

Is that about right?


Posted By: Fuzzphoto
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 15:03
It's technically impossible to go below base ISO of an image sensor. Period.

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Joris' http://fuzzphoto.eu/ - Fuzzphoto gallery | A77II, A700+VG, NEX-5, http://fuzzcraft.com/equipment.html - other gear


Posted By: Sick
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 15:13
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Well, that's a comfort. Hey, maybe the SLTs will eventually grow NEX-like flash connectors on top for the HVL-F7S and F20S.
But that's pure speculation.
The same way it is possible that a more advance NEX Alpha (call it NEX-7) comes with the iISO hot-shoe.
And it could also be that it comes with build in flash and can wireless trigger the Sony/Minolta D flashes.

Saying "- and no compatiblity with the Minolta/Sony flash system." as a statement means you have insight in Sony's platform plans? ;o)


Posted By: Peekayoh
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 15:41
That's the problem with using "ISO" rather than "Gain" as a descriptor for digital sensitivity, people try to apply other equally inappropriate film qualities to the sensor.


Posted By: tigertimb
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 15:48
Originally posted by Fuzzphoto Fuzzphoto wrote:

It's technically impossible to go below base ISO of an image sensor. Period.


True, but does that mean that a sensor couldn't be made at a lower base ISO in the first place, even if that means some compromise with the high ISO? (or equivalent thereof)

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Tim
If you appreciate comments on your photos, how about returning the favour to others . . .


Posted By: sybersitizen
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 15:57
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Hey, maybe the SLTs will eventually grow NEX-like flash connectors on top for the HVL-F7S and F20S.

Originally posted by Sick Sick wrote:

But that's pure speculation.

I wouldn't even call it that. The thought just popped into my head and I let it out.

The same way it is possible that a more advance NEX Alpha (call it NEX-7) comes with the iISO hot-shoe.
And it could also be that it comes with build in flash and can wireless trigger the Sony/Minolta D flashes.

Saying "- and no compatiblity with the Minolta/Sony flash system." as a statement means you have insight in Sony's platform plans? ;o)

If you object to that statement, why did you not also object to some of these?

- slower AF speed than in DSLR/SLT models

- adapter required for mounting A-mount lenses

- with that adapter AF only works with lenses that have builtin motors


All of the above are true with regards to current NEX still cameras and will remain true with upcoming NEX still cameras unless Sony makes significant changes. Sony could invalidate all of those truths at some point in the future. Even the one about the adapter - if they include the adapter in the box, the NEX is 'instantly compatible' with Alpha lenses. I don't see how there can be any reasonable speculation if we constantly allow for the possibility that a future NEX camera might be literally anything and everything. All you would need to do is repeat that last phrase and be done.


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 16:20
Making 2 models for one change like that would doubtful in cost savings.   Sony didn't bother selling the A55 without GPS in the US, I wonder if they ever sold many of those around the world or quickly just went to the GPS only model. Why make a camera that saves them maybe 5 bucks, yet at the retail end they have to put a much bigger price delta in there, at least 50 bucks.   That means either removing some profit to have the cheaper model, or pricing the GPS model higher than planned or just simply higher and hurting sales.

As is commented many times, there is lots of features in cameras some people don't use. Just the way it is. But the A55 had 2 big things, SLT and GPS.   I'm pretty sure GPS was a big part of it's success.


Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

It's good to here they both have GPS, if Sony blew that one after the success of the A55, that would have been dumbfounding. In interviews reps had said GPS will come on the higher end models in the future, so it's good to see it stays.

I've no need for GPS, so I would like to see a (cheaper) version without the GPS... What about an A75 without GPS?


Posted By: PhotoTraveler
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 16:26
yes no,   the sensor can't go below, they doesn't mean you can't PWM it, if it's only running half the time during exposure, you have certainly reduced it's sensitivity.

As was mentioned, it needs to be thought about as Gain, and I think people are making the false assumption that what ever the base ISO of the camera is, is also the point with no Gain Added.    I doubt this to be the case, as pretty sure even the most base ISOs see a good amount of Gain applied to the signal.

Originally posted by Fuzzphoto Fuzzphoto wrote:

It's technically impossible to go below base ISO of an image sensor. Period.


Posted By: bill_bly_ca
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 16:39
Originally posted by tigertimb tigertimb wrote:

Originally posted by Fuzzphoto Fuzzphoto wrote:

It's technically impossible to go below base ISO of an image sensor. Period.


True, but does that mean that a sensor couldn't be made at a lower base ISO in the first place, even if that means some compromise with the high ISO? (or equivalent thereof)



Problem is that low ISO in Sensor speak is "High Electron count". High electron count is quite easy in boring old world of CCDs but not so in the exciting new world of densely packed CMOS designs..

Typing out loud...

IIRC from the 7D\5D\Sony sensor spec sheet sheet (looked for it on my HD at work but it seems to be buried somewhere) of 100,000 e' and this yielded ISO 100 (Or low 80) for its base sensitivity.

So empirically to get to ISO 50, you would need 200,000 e' .. I know the CCDs used by phase one and the like can hold 200,000 e and more per photo site..

Conversely it does imply that most CMOS parts are around 50,000e' per node (by the statement that their base sensitivity of ISO 200).

Of course this excludes the inherent non linearity of film to the inherent Linearity of a imaging sensor and charge conversion efficiency of the electrons.

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a850/a99/a7/grips, http://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_bly_ca/4314016893/ - and all the other stuff


Posted By: roweraay
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 17:13
Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

As was mentioned, it needs to be thought about as Gain, and I think people are making the false assumption that what ever the base ISO of the camera is, is also the point with no Gain Added.    I doubt this to be the case, as pretty sure even the most base ISOs see a good amount of Gain applied to the signal.


Probably true. I consider the base ISO as the ISO at which the DR is maximized, whatever be the gain level. Go above the base ISO and the DR goes down, while the sensitivity goes up with the increase in the gain (along with noise).

I read an article a couple of months back, where they were stating that camera manufacturers are applying a hidden amount of gain onto the sensors and not publishing it. Another point mentioned in the said article, if I remember it correctly, was that there was absolutely nothing to be gained by using super-fast lenses with these digital cameras (unlike say in the film era), and that there is a cut-off point for the aperture size, and lenses with any larger apertures, provide absolutely no benefit to the shooter (and of course has the downside of needing to carry heavier-than-needed lenses).


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A1/135f1.8GM/20f1.8G/35f1.4GM/Sigma85f1.4DGDN/24-70/2.8GMII/70-200/2.8GMII/Sigma14-24f2.8DGDN/200-600G


Posted By: Heidfirst
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 17:21
Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

Making 2 models for one change like that would doubtful in cost savings.   Sony didn't bother selling the A55 without GPS in the US, I wonder if they ever sold many of those around the world or quickly just went to the GPS only model. Why make a camera that saves them maybe 5 bucks, yet at the retail end they have to put a much bigger price delta in there, at least 50 bucks.   

iirc they can't sell GPS-equipped in China & China is coming to be a major market ...


Posted By: Yakim
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 17:42
Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

Staying on topic is far to constraining for the A77 thread.




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Happy shooting,
Yakim.


Posted By: tigertimb
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 17:44
Originally posted by roweraay roweraay wrote:


Probably true. I consider the base ISO as the ISO at which the DR is maximized, whatever be the gain level. Go above the base ISO and the DR goes down, while the sensitivity goes up with the increase in the gain (along with noise).


Interesting to note that (for example) both the A700 and A900 supposedly have a base ISO of 200. (not sure if this is official or just popular opinion)

But if you look at the DXOmark measurements for the http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Sony/Alpha-900" rel="nofollow - A900 and the http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Sony/Alpha-700" rel="nofollow - A700 both still show gains in noise, tonal range and dynamic range at ISO 100.

It's certainly a small gain and not linear, but it is an improvement, so maybe this should be considered the base ISO? With good light, I certainly don't hesitate to use ISO 100 now, where initial reports seemed to suggest that it could actually be detrimental!

(and intriguing to see that the more recent http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Sony/Alpha-580" rel="nofollow - A580 shows a much more linear gain at ISO 100 (which is responsible for it scoring better than the A900 for dynamic range, where at every other ISO the A900 is better)

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Tim
If you appreciate comments on your photos, how about returning the favour to others . . .


Posted By: tigertimb
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 17:49
Originally posted by bill_bly_ca bill_bly_ca wrote:

Originally posted by tigertimb tigertimb wrote:

Originally posted by Fuzzphoto Fuzzphoto wrote:

It's technically impossible to go below base ISO of an image sensor. Period.


True, but does that mean that a sensor couldn't be made at a lower base ISO in the first place, even if that means some compromise with the high ISO? (or equivalent thereof)



Problem is that low ISO in Sensor speak is "High Electron count". High electron count is quite easy in boring old world of CCDs but not so in the exciting new world of densely packed CMOS designs..

Typing out loud...

IIRC from the 7D\5D\Sony sensor spec sheet sheet (looked for it on my HD at work but it seems to be buried somewhere) of 100,000 e' and this yielded ISO 100 (Or low 80) for its base sensitivity.

So empirically to get to ISO 50, you would need 200,000 e' .. I know the CCDs used by phase one and the like can hold 200,000 e and more per photo site..

Conversely it does imply that most CMOS parts are around 50,000e' per node (by the statement that their base sensitivity of ISO 200).

Of course this excludes the inherent non linearity of film to the inherent Linearity of a imaging sensor and charge conversion efficiency of the electrons.


Always great to benefit from the expertise at Dyxum - thank you

So better low ISO would be feasible if it was made a design priority, but it would no doubt come at considerable cost and alternative compromises?

-------------
Tim
If you appreciate comments on your photos, how about returning the favour to others . . .


Posted By: otherboss
Date Posted: 24 June 2011 at 03:04
Far be it from me to add confusion to what already seems to be bedlam over the A77 guessing game.

It appears to make sense that if the A65 is released with specs close to the A77, it would take sales from the A77, which of course, Sony wouldn't want.

My guess would be that the A77 may get a high resolution EVF and the A65 would get the current EVF as featured on the A55 etc. That way, the A77 would be seen to have a clear advantage and delineate it as a more "serious" camera. I don't think that the metal body alone would really make that much difference to a buyer who wasn't a follower of the finer points that have been discussed here over the last couple of months. In some cases it would be a disadvantage, as it makes the camera heavier.

There were 2 different viewfinders in the 850/900, which may be a clue.

Purely a random speculation, based on nothing more than thinking about it from a marketing/segment placement point of view.

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A99,7D, A77, Canon 20D, Lumix G1, 70-200G, Sigma 10-20 & 24-70, Minolta 17-35,Sony 16-105, KM 24-85, KM 100-200, KM 35-105, KM 28-135, Sigma 170-500, Sony 70-300G, Sigma 18-125, 42 Flash, etc,


Posted By: Jozioau
Date Posted: 24 June 2011 at 03:12
Images of production models of the new Sony Alpha a77 and a65 are on the web: see this link: http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/first-images-of-sony-a77-a65-dslrs-leaked-online-969897" rel="nofollow - http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/first-images-of-sony-a77-a65-dslrs-leaked-online-969897
Including these technical details: The blog reports the Sony A77 will be Sony's new top APS-C DSLR and replace the Alpha 700. The source claims its specs will include an ISO range from 100 up to 102,400.
The Sony A77 is also said to use a new double Bionz processor, boast a 3-million-dot OLED EVF and shoot more than 10fps, with 11 cross AF points.
Release date moved back to August due to Tsunami and Fukoshima impacts.




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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst" - Henri Cartier-Bresson
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jozioau/albums - My FlickrPro site


Posted By: otherboss
Date Posted: 24 June 2011 at 04:46
Originally posted by Jozioau Jozioau wrote:

Images of production models of the new Sony Alpha a77 and a65 are on the web: see this link: http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/first-images-of-sony-a77-a65-dslrs-leaked-online-969897" rel="nofollow - http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/first-images-of-sony-a77-a65-dslrs-leaked-online-969897
Including these technical details: The blog reports the Sony A77 will be Sony's new top APS-C DSLR and replace the Alpha 700. The source claims its specs will include an ISO range from 100 up to 102,400.
The Sony A77 is also said to use a new double Bionz processor, boast a 3-million-dot OLED EVF and shoot more than 10fps, with 11 cross AF points.
Release date moved back to August due to Tsunami and Fukoshima impacts.




Announcment date in August, Release date Sept/October

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A99,7D, A77, Canon 20D, Lumix G1, 70-200G, Sigma 10-20 & 24-70, Minolta 17-35,Sony 16-105, KM 24-85, KM 100-200, KM 35-105, KM 28-135, Sigma 170-500, Sony 70-300G, Sigma 18-125, 42 Flash, etc,


Posted By: Yakim
Date Posted: 24 June 2011 at 08:14
Is the A65 the successor of the A55?

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Happy shooting,
Yakim.


Posted By: tigertimb
Date Posted: 24 June 2011 at 08:52
Originally posted by Yakim Yakim wrote:

Is the A65 the successor of the A55?


That's what was sugggested on sony alpha rumors and to my mind makes sense of releasing the two cameras together

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Tim
If you appreciate comments on your photos, how about returning the favour to others . . .


Posted By: Hezu
Date Posted: 24 June 2011 at 12:05
Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

As is commented many times, there is lots of features in cameras some people don't use. Just the way it is. But the A55 had 2 big things, SLT and GPS.   I'm pretty sure GPS was a big part of it's success.
Indeed, for example, GPS was The Feature, that made me to desire α55. Obviously as my previous DSLRs were KM 7D, Sony α700 and α900 I would have preferred bit bigger body and more advanced controls, so it is fairly certain that once these new bigger SLTs are available I'll get one. Might still keep α55 since I have started to kinda like the compact size despite its associated disadvantages (primarily weak battery life).

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http://hezu.1g.fi/ - Galerie Hezu


Posted By: Yakim
Date Posted: 24 June 2011 at 18:51
Originally posted by tigertimb tigertimb wrote:

Originally posted by Yakim Yakim wrote:

Is the A65 the successor of the A55?


That's what was sugggested on sony alpha rumors and to my mind makes sense of releasing the two cameras together


Thanks. Sony naming convention tends to get confusing at times.

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Happy shooting,
Yakim.


Posted By: Winedarksea
Date Posted: 25 June 2011 at 13:39
Originally posted by Yakim Yakim wrote:

Originally posted by tigertimb tigertimb wrote:

Originally posted by Yakim Yakim wrote:

Is the A65 the successor of the A55?


That's what was sugggested on sony alpha rumors and to my mind makes sense of releasing the two cameras together


Thanks. Sony naming convention tends to get confusing at times.


Yakim, Andrea at SAR has told me that his sources are calling the A65 "the successor to the A55." However, I am intrigued by Sony's use of the 6-series instead of the 5-series numbering for this. I am just wondering whether there might not be a another 5-series camera as well.

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Dulaney
A700; SAL 50 f1.4; SAL 18-250; CZ 85 f1.4


Posted By: Yakim
Date Posted: 25 June 2011 at 17:33
Originally posted by Winedarksea Winedarksea wrote:

Originally posted by Yakim Yakim wrote:

Originally posted by tigertimb tigertimb wrote:

Originally posted by Yakim Yakim wrote:

Is the A65 the successor of the A55?


That's what was sugggested on sony alpha rumors and to my mind makes sense of releasing the two cameras together


Thanks. Sony naming convention tends to get confusing at times.


Yakim, Andrea at SAR has told me that his sources are calling the A65 "the successor to the A55." However, I am intrigued by Sony's use of the 6-series instead of the 5-series numbering for this. I am just wondering whether there might not be a another 5-series camera as well.


I am intrigued as well. I wondered if there will be a 6-series as well.

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Happy shooting,
Yakim.


Posted By: rdtindsm
Date Posted: 30 June 2011 at 04:06
I am planning on traveling to Nepal later in the year and was considering buying an a55 because of the gps and pan capabilities, using it instead of my a700 and / or 850. I will be going to a place called Larabina Yak which has a great view sweeping probably 135 degrees including the Annapurnas and into Tibet.

I've done a little research into the a77. It looks like I would be ahead of the game to sell my a700 (about $550 on the auction site) and put the money into an a77 for $1k.

???s
Will the a77 have the pan and gps?

The latest I've seen on the web states a july 7 release date. Or is this the announcement date with a later release date? I was wanting to leave in late september, but would wait a mo. or 2 for a new camera.

I haven't done any pan stitching in photoshop. Is that an equally valid option for this width of pan? To rephrase, which will do a better job. Am concerned about changes in the scene (e.g. clouds) with the extra time that would be required for multiple shots.

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May the hair on your toes grow ever longer


Posted By: Heidfirst
Date Posted: 30 June 2011 at 04:11
Originally posted by rdtindsm rdtindsm wrote:


???s
Will the a77 have the pan and gps?

I would put money on them both being in

The latest I've seen on the web states a july 7 release date. Or is this the announcement date with a later release date? I was wanting to leave in late september, but would wait a mo. or 2 for a new camera.

that was to be the announcement date but it's now been put off again.
I wouldn't put money on the A77 being in the shops in September

I haven't done any pan stitching in photoshop. Is that an equally valid option for this width of pan? To rephrase, which will do a better job. Am concerned about changes in the scene (e.g. clouds) with the extra time that would be required for multiple shots.

doing it in software will do a better job esp. if you have a tripod with appropriate head etc.
The in-camera only works in jpeg.


Posted By: utcreeper
Date Posted: 30 June 2011 at 05:18
Also if the A77 follows existing shooting modes, you wont' be able to do the auto-panorama with the camera in portrait mode. (Unless doing a vertical panarama.) To cram the most detail into a pano, that's the way to go, and so far the A33/35/55/Nex's can't stitch that direction. So as usual, you're better off doing it manually. Photoshop is probably best, but Microsoft's http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/ICE/" rel="nofollow - ICE is quite nice, free, and fast. Worth checking out.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kreeper - Me @ flickr

Various A-mount gear


Posted By: Hezu
Date Posted: 30 June 2011 at 07:48
Originally posted by utcreeper utcreeper wrote:

Also if the A77 follows existing shooting modes, you wont' be able to do the auto-panorama with the camera in portrait mode. (Unless doing a vertical panarama.) To cram the most detail into a pano, that's the way to go, and so far the A33/35/55/Nex's can't stitch that direction.
Um, at least α55 has option to select which direction you should move the camera when shooting sweep panorama. If you select up or down, you can shoot also in portrait orientation.

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http://hezu.1g.fi/ - Galerie Hezu


Posted By: tigertimb
Date Posted: 30 June 2011 at 09:08
Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

Originally posted by utcreeper utcreeper wrote:

Also if the A77 follows existing shooting modes, you wont' be able to do the auto-panorama with the camera in portrait mode. (Unless doing a vertical panarama.) To cram the most detail into a pano, that's the way to go, and so far the A33/35/55/Nex's can't stitch that direction.
Um, at least α55 has option to select which direction you should move the camera when shooting sweep panorama. If you select up or down, you can shoot also in portrait orientation.


My NEX-5 has this option too and is the normal way I use it.

You'd be forgiven for missing it though, as Sony has done a nice job of scattering the panorama options: you select normal/wide from the size menu and set the panorama direction from the camera menu

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Tim
If you appreciate comments on your photos, how about returning the favour to others . . .


Posted By: utcreeper
Date Posted: 30 June 2011 at 18:27
Ahh,.. good to know. Sony only says:
"Capture expansive landscapes automatically. Press the shutter and sweep vertically or horizontally. The camera does the rest, continuously shooting images and stitching them together. Up to 23 MP image size. "

I've used some of their P&S models with the same description that don't have the option to take a horizontal pano with the camera in portrait orientation. Cool that they did figure that out!

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kreeper - Me @ flickr

Various A-mount gear


Posted By: rdtindsm
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 19:26
Thanks, the information about jpg pansis most relevant.

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May the hair on your toes grow ever longer


Posted By: Chris65
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 09:02

Just found this info in a Canon Site

Hmmm http://www.eoshd.com/content/2727/sony-a77

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CRHoughton
A7RM2,A77M2,70-400GII, Minolta 300 f2.8 & f4 300 + 1.4 TC 2x TC, Sony 70-200G CZ 16-80,Sony 1.4/50, CZ24-70G Sigma, 50-500, Tamron 90mm 1:1 Macro.FE CZ35 1.4


Posted By: maewpa
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 09:08
This post is no longer necessary as it referes to something that isn't there anymore.

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Paul aka maewpa


Posted By: peterbee
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 09:15
I've read in a number of places on the web that the A77 announcement is to be delayed until next month as a result of the impact of the tsunami - see here, for example:

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/29821/sony-a77/" rel="nofollow - http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/29821/sony-a77/

Anyone know if this is correct?

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A700/KM 11-18/17-35/28-75/CZ 16-80/Sony 70-300 SSM/85 F2,8/100 Macro/Min 24/28/35/50/135

http://www.peterbartlettimages.co.uk" rel="nofollow - My Gallery


Posted By: Muby
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 09:25
Originally posted by cata352004 cata352004 wrote:

Today is 07/07/2011 ... Sony launches A77 model? or let us write 100 pages? I hope not and I want to see the new A77 !!!


I've just checked "www.sonycenter.ro" and it's down for maintenance - could it be that they will add the A77? That would be a first, having a product the same time as the rest of the world...

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Beauty is in the EYE/FILM/SENSOR of the beholder!


Posted By: utcreeper
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 10:08
Originally posted by peterbee peterbee wrote:

I've read in a number of places on the web that the A77 announcement is to be delayed until next month as a result of the impact of the tsunami - see here, for example:

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/29821/sony-a77/" rel="nofollow - http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/29821/sony-a77/

Anyone know if this is correct?


I have also heard that, but it makes no sense. The actual 'in-stores' date (October-ish?) being affected makes perfect sense. But a paper-launch announcement doesn't need a factory anywhere.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kreeper - Me @ flickr

Various A-mount gear


Posted By: peterbee
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 11:33
Originally posted by utcreeper utcreeper wrote:

I have also heard that, but it makes no sense. The actual 'in-stores' date (October-ish?) being affected makes perfect sense. But a paper-launch announcement doesn't need a factory anywhere.


Yes, I agree. Unless, of course, Sony have limited confidence in their ability to deliver the product by October.

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A700/KM 11-18/17-35/28-75/CZ 16-80/Sony 70-300 SSM/85 F2,8/100 Macro/Min 24/28/35/50/135

http://www.peterbartlettimages.co.uk" rel="nofollow - My Gallery


Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 11:38
Premature evaluation me thinks.

Frank

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*** Sony A850 * A700 * Minolta 5D and other stuff ***


Posted By: Woodworth
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 11:38
A77 on 7/7 would have been nice, but as far as I know it's going to be August and so we'll just have to wait (maybe it'll be called the A88 ...???).

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Chris



Posted By: roweraay
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 17:14
The judgement day was shifted to August, as per the SAR update a few weeks back.

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A1/135f1.8GM/20f1.8G/35f1.4GM/Sigma85f1.4DGDN/24-70/2.8GMII/70-200/2.8GMII/Sigma14-24f2.8DGDN/200-600G


Posted By: Mariani
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 17:52
reading the thread topic... I thought Arnold was coming back!


Posted By: Steve-S
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 18:10
Originally posted by utcreeper utcreeper wrote:

Originally posted by peterbee peterbee wrote:

I've read in a number of places on the web that the A77 announcement is to be delayed until next month as a result of the impact of the tsunami - see here, for example:
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/29821/sony-a77/" rel="nofollow - http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/29821/sony-a77/
Anyone know if this is correct?

I have also heard that, but it makes no sense. The actual 'in-stores' date (October-ish?) being affected makes perfect sense. But a paper-launch announcement doesn't need a factory anywhere.


Back on 22June, SAR wrote:
... original plan was to announce those cameras in July but the announcement has been delayed to late August because of the recent production issues that external suppliers had after the Tsunami-Fukushima disaster ...


While they're only laying the blame at the foot of the "external suppliers" I've seen reports that (at least some) Sony facilities have had serious problems, too; some of the problem may well be Sony's.

However, if ANY of the problem is external, then Sony has to consider the possibility that their suppliers' estimates are "optimistic," at best. It's possible that some critical component(s) may NEVER become available, that Sony will have to re-engineer with an alternative part and that the camera-spec may change as a result.

In the face of an imponderable (regarding parts-availability), and possible/unknown consequences to the camera-specification and camera-availability, I think it makes good sense to delay the announcement.


- Steve S.


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a77_SAL18-135_ZA135/1.8_Tam200-500_Tam180/3.5_Tam10-24_Min50/1.7


Posted By: roweraay
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 18:19
Originally posted by Steve-S Steve-S wrote:

It's possible that some critical component(s) may NEVER become available, that Sony will have to re-engineer with an alternative part and that the camera-spec may change as a result.


Yup, the "critical components", along with their engineering specifications and diagrams, washed away during the Tsunami flood.

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A1/135f1.8GM/20f1.8G/35f1.4GM/Sigma85f1.4DGDN/24-70/2.8GMII/70-200/2.8GMII/Sigma14-24f2.8DGDN/200-600G


Posted By: Steve-S
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 18:49
Originally posted by roweraay roweraay wrote:

Originally posted by Steve-S Steve-S wrote:

It's possible that some critical component(s) may NEVER become available, that Sony will have to re-engineer with an alternative part and that the camera-spec may change as a result.


Yup, the "critical components", along with their engineering specifications and diagrams, washed away during the Tsunami flood.


<heh>
My point was that a rebuilt factory may be re-tooled to a "newer" specification, re-purposed to some other use, or even written off as a loss. Not every part is always available, and if Sony had specified anything "unusual" it may turn out to be unavailable at a reasonable cost and/or in a reasonable timeframe -- not even with engineering spec's!

Recall that the SLT's are, themselves "unique" products; you can't get them from ANYONE but Sony. Similarly, there may be some component(s) which cannot simply be bought from another supplier...


- Steve S.


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a77_SAL18-135_ZA135/1.8_Tam200-500_Tam180/3.5_Tam10-24_Min50/1.7


Posted By: Steve-S
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 19:10
Originally posted by cata352004 cata352004 wrote:

tsunami was in 2011 and they torment us for over two years ... goodnight Sony !!! not surprising that more and more people buy Nikon / Canon ... are not necessarily better than Sony Alpha but have more options (nikon d7000,d300s;canon 60d,7d...etc) Sony sleeps ...


Ummm... it's only a few months after the Fukushima disaster; which "two years" are you mentioning?

And my understanding is that Canon and Nikon are also both experiencing delays.


- Steve S.


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a77_SAL18-135_ZA135/1.8_Tam200-500_Tam180/3.5_Tam10-24_Min50/1.7


Posted By: GeirJ
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 19:22
Compared to the tsunami, which was a disaster and killed thousands of people and did enormous material damage, waiting a few extra months for a new camera model seems a minor inconvenience. Get a perspective on what's important in life!


Posted By: Serdar A
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 19:37
I am certain most of us did what we could financially aside from getting on an airplane and helping the relief effort personally (and there is at least one member who even did that). But at some point, you have to move on...That is life.

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http://goo.gl/33VZr - How to post images |


Posted By: klw10
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 19:40
Originally posted by Serdar A Serdar A wrote:

I am certain most of us did what we could financially aside from getting on an airplane and helping the relief effort personally (and there is at least one member who even did that). But at some point, you have to move on...That is life.


agreed


Posted By: GeirJ
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 19:50
I don't really understand what moving on means in this context. I am trying to compare real problems a natural disaster with something which in the bigger picture is unimportant a delay in the announcement of a new camera. Most members on the forum do not seem to want for camera equipment.


Posted By: bill_bly_ca
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 19:53
Originally posted by cata352004 cata352004 wrote:

tsunami was in 2011 and they torment us for over two years ... goodnight Sony !!! not surprising that more and more people buy Nikon / Canon ... are not necessarily better than Sony Alpha but have more options (nikon d7000,d300s;canon 60d,7d...etc) Sony sleeps ...


It is a well known fact that that a700 (and to a lesser extent the a850/a900s) have not had stellar sales.

Word was that Sony even lost money on the a700

You do have to understand that "they" run a business and the "who" control the business are looking for a Return On Investment. Maybe they understood they would loose money on the a700 to set the market.. We will probably never know.

I doubt the Engineers and marketers could have made a case to their management to follow up a (money) loosing camera to a saturated market place (We are talking K5/7D/D300 market space here)

Now with the apparent runaway success of the a33 and a55 the eng and marketeers at Sony did have a chance to sell their bosses on a upper mid market / prosumer /advanced amateur.. what ever you call it.. Model that is not an "Also ran" in this space. Truly unique. I think they will do well and unless there is some geologic oversight, will buy one myself.

Tsunami is responsible for a couple months..

The 2 yrs you speak of is because there are not enough of us dedicated to SONY in this market segment to give SONY the money back on what they spend.



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a850/a99/a7/grips, http://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_bly_ca/4314016893/ - and all the other stuff


Posted By: Mariani
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 20:01
with all this hype surrounding the A77... it is destined to be a failure... not because it will not be any good... but because the expectations for this camera is set so ridiculously high it will never meet the expectations for everyone.

I can already picture the... "Sony failed on the A77 because it is missing..." posts


Posted By: Beachrider
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 20:18
The July 2006 Tsunami affected Indian Ocean people and no impact in Japan directly. The November 2006 Tsunami was NE of Japan, with very minor impact on very-Northernmost parts.

What is the point of the 2006 Tsunami relative to Japan manufacturing.

We certainly all empathize with the massive misery of Indian Ocean areas and their losses.


Posted By: jcbenten
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 20:27
Originally posted by cata352004 cata352004 wrote:

...Sony was wrong for not thinking of its customers !



Sony is thinking of their customers. Sony's customers are the SLT and NEX users and not Pro-sumer users.

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Chris

Sony A550/580; Min 24 & 28f2.8; Sony 35f1.4G 50f1.4 85f1.4 18-250; Tam 17-50f2.8; Tok 28-70f2.8SV; Sony HVL58; FS: Sony 75-300


Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 20:39
Originally posted by jcbenten jcbenten wrote:


Sony is thinking of their customers. Sony's customers are the SLT and NEX users and not Pro-sumer users.


That would appear to be the case, or at least a logical conclusion based on what appears to be Sony's direction. I think many "old school" photographers, myself included, where hoping for Sony to pick up the fight left by Minolta. For a while they did with the a100, a700, a850 and a900. But it appears that they feel more comfortable in producing the consumer electronics products they are more comfortable with as opposed to fighting it out in the high end camera market with Canon and Nikon. The rumored $1000 street price of the a77 came as quite a surprise to me.

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Dennis


Posted By: Serdar A
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 20:49
I am surprised that you are surprised Dennis. How much do you think a camera that will compete with 60D and D7000 will cost? Or did you believe that Sony was targeting 7D and D300 with A77?

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http://goo.gl/33VZr - How to post images |


Posted By: jcbenten
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 20:52
Originally posted by dca1213 dca1213 wrote:


That would appear to be the case, or at least a logical conclusion based on what appears to be Sony's direction. I think many "old school" photographers, myself included, where hoping for Sony to pick up the fight left by Minolta. For a while they did with the a100, a700, a850 and a900. But it appears that they feel more comfortable in producing the consumer electronics products they are more comfortable with as opposed to fighting it out in the high end camera market with Canon and Nikon. The rumored $1000 street price of the a77 came as quite a surprise to me.


Sony has decided not to fight Canikon head-on or even capture current high-end camera users but to grab all the P&S users who want a bit more. IMO whomever offers a FF (20-24 mp) for $1000 will win that battle. Then a 50mm lens will mean 50mm and not 75 or 80 or 100mm (I know, I know a 50mm is 50mm whether FF or Cropped but the 35mm film users, like me, no longer have to do a calc.)

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Chris

Sony A550/580; Min 24 & 28f2.8; Sony 35f1.4G 50f1.4 85f1.4 18-250; Tam 17-50f2.8; Tok 28-70f2.8SV; Sony HVL58; FS: Sony 75-300


Posted By: dca1213
Date Posted: 07 July 2011 at 21:11
Originally posted by Serdar A Serdar A wrote:

I am surprised that you are surprised Dennis. How much do you think a camera that will compete with 60D and D7000 will cost? Or did you believe that Sony was targeting 7D and D300 with A77?


Yes, I did expect it to compete with the 7D and be in the $1200 to $1300 range given the rumored 25MP sensor and metal body. Performance wise the Sony a580 competes with the D7000 and the 60D, not in build quality but certainly in IQ and superior live view system.

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Dennis


Posted By: maewpa
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 09:02
Originally posted by Serdar A Serdar A wrote:

I am certain most of us did what we could financially aside from getting on an airplane and helping the relief effort personally (and there is at least one member who even did that). But at some point, you have to move on...That is life.


"Moving on" to........

Sorry, Serdar - I know it's twisting words..... but I've been dying to use your emoticon, and this was just too good an opportunity to pass up.

Three new emoticons down, and five to go.....

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Paul aka maewpa


Posted By: Heidfirst
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 09:25
Originally posted by dca1213 dca1213 wrote:



Yes, I did expect it to compete with the 7D and be in the $1200 to $1300 range given the rumored 25MP sensor and metal body. Performance wise the Sony a580 competes with the D7000 and the 60D, not in build quality but certainly in IQ and superior live view system.

2 years ago I was told that the A700 replacement wasn't going to be pitched as a direct 7D competitor.
Of course there is nothing that says that Sony can't add in another (pro) model above the A700 replacement when they feel ready.



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