Indoor Sports Photography
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Forum Name: Knowledge Base
Forum Description: Improving photo techniques & getting more from Dyxum
URL: https://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83702
Printed Date: 13 May 2025 at 07:21
Topic: Indoor Sports Photography
Posted By: Frankman
Subject: Indoor Sports Photography
Date Posted: 13 January 2012 at 23:51
Introduction I have always been interested in sports. From the age of 6 I have played football (soccer), baseball, cross country skiing, hockey, golf, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandy" rel="nofollow - bandy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floorball" rel="nofollow - floorball in organized leagues. I have also tried speedskating, slalom, curling, bowling and tennis. Now, having photography as main hobby I have tried to combine my interest for sports with my photography. I try to see my son play football and tennis regularly and I always bring my camera bag. During winter I’m fortunate to be one of the appointed game photographers for our local bandy team which plays in the 2nd highest division and also have a rinkside badge to Allsvenskan, which is the 2nd highest hockeyleague in Sweden. I haven’t tried to shoot another team than my favourite team Leksand though but I’m tempted to try an away game some day soon. My bandy shots are mostly used on the team website and my hockey shots are used for various publications but also sold. Ramblings you think, not really, my point with this introduction is, that having played a certain sport is a huge advantage and makes it easier to get the shots you want, that stands out from the others. To know where the action is gonna happen is critical to get the good shots. Trying to follow the game only will make you trigger the shutter a fraction to late and miss the key moments instead of anticipating situations and trusting your instincts. In this article I’m going to concentrate on shooting indoors. I hope that you will find this interesting. The gear: Cameras: A77 and a700 A77. The a77 is the main camera for its high frame rate, focus and tracking capabilities Lenses: Sony 70-200 2,8G, CZ 24-70 2,8, Minolta 300 4G and Sigma 10-20 I mainly use the 70-200 but the other lenses also see some use in certain situations. I never use a tripod or monopod at indoor venues as they are useless in what I do but at more static sports I can see it could be of use, especially when trying to get specific situations in a game like a tennis/volleyballplayer serving in low light etc. Bring everything you got in memory cards!!! The Settings: I always shoot in manual but use auto white balance. Typically I have the following settings: A77 F 2,8-3,5 and ISO 1000 to get speeds at 1/ 250-350. I haven’t really shot that much with this camera so there’s still much to learn and up till now I’m still experimenting between AF-S and AF-C. Finally I don’t use the 12 fps mode but rather the 10 fps mode and shoot bursts of 3-6 shots A700 F 2,8-3,5 and ISO 800 to get speeds at 1/250-350. I only use the AF-S since the AF-C is to slow on the a700 and shoot bursts of 3-5 shots. Finding the right settings can be tricky since the light varies at indoor arenas. Always be at the venue in time for the warmup which is the perfect opportunity to find the right settings. During the game I always try to aim at the faces of the players as different colored jerseys etc can fool the metering if you don’t shoot in manual. Another advantage of aiming at faces is that, IMHO, a face in the adds so much more to the picture. A sports photo without a face is less interesting. Of course there are exceptions to this but in most cases you need to get a face in the frame. Some players have very funny or “speaking” facial expressions when skating or shooting and if you get those in the picture you have a keeper. I also try to decide beforehand what I want from the game, is there a special player I want to follow, do I want to experiment with motion-blur or do I just want to get as many good action shots as possible. Lately I have tried to get at least some wideangle shots from every game, if you do it right, you get a very different and interesting shot. For these shots the a700 gets to see some action and is very dependable. I would like to go back to the gear. When shooting indoor sports you need good lenses with large aperture capabilities like my Sony 70-200 2,8 or lenses like the Minolta 200 2,8G or 300 2,8G. For fast paced sports it’s also very useful to have high speed focussing lenses like the Sony SSM or Minolta HS lenses. There are other 70-200 2,8 lenses on the market but I have only tried an old Sigma which wasn’t very good and the Minolta 80-200 HS 2,8G that was almost as good as the Sony I’ve got now. You can of course use less specialized lenses for shooting sports but it will be harder and you will have to compromise as less light will hit the sensor. If you don’t want crank up your ISO you can actually turn this into an advantage and add another element into you shots. I talk about motion blur which is a great effect in sports photography, it takes a lot of practising but it adds so much if done correctly. Otherwise, look for situations where players are slow enough to get a decent shot, know the limitations of your equipment and wait for the right moment. Post processing: I always shoot in RAW. During my first screening in Adobe Bridge, I delete everything without a face, that’s not sharp, shots with cut legs/sticks/heads or just boring pictures. Be hard on yourself here or you will end up with lots of similar shots. That’s nothing but a waste of space. In Camera Raw I adjust white balance if necessary then exposure. In Photoshop I crop if needed, use levels to get the black really black, adds a little color and finally adjust brightness. Sometimes I need to remove some noise, especially after shooting on higher ISO in smaller arenas but that’s it! Remember when editing high ISO shots that you must be careful when sharpening as you will also increase visible noise. Reducing the size also reduces the noise after sharpening can be applied with caution! I have probably forgotten something but feel free to post any question you may have and I will try to answer with the best of my knowledge. Thanks for reading and I hope you have learnt something. Some Results: Static moment in the game  Wide Angle shot  Making it just a little more interesting with motion blur  Facial expressions   Peak action  ------------- *** Sony A850 * A700 * Minolta 5D and other stuff *** |
Replies:
Posted By: revdocjim
Date Posted: 14 January 2012 at 00:08
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Thanks Magnus. Your hockey shots are always a pleasure to view and your explanations are great. I have been using the same cameras (A700 and now A77) for lots of indoor sports so there's lots I can relate to. Actually I'm jealous of your settings because of the great lighting. My main indoor sports are volleyball and basketball. These games are in high school gyms so the lighting is inconsistent and even in the best settings nothing close to a professional hockey arena. The result is that in almost all of my games f/2.8 is simply not fast enough. I have ended up having to use my 85/1.4 at f/2.2 or in really dark gyms f/2 which is obviously not ideal. I had hoped the A77 would have better high ISO performance to make f/2.8 usable but alas... The other issue with gym lighting is that it cycles through all the colors 60 times a second so with fast shutter speeds the colors will vary widely from frame to frame. This makes for a lot of work in PP to get consistent colors in the final product. Anyway, thanks for the great article. (Oh BTW, a minor detail but isn't the second fastest mode on the A77 8fps rather than 10fps?) ------------- http://revdocjim.smugmug.com/ - Gallery A7S, A7Rii, Batis 18/2.8, 25/2 Sony 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 90/2.8M, 24-105/4, Minolta 135STF, 200/2.8 http://goo.gl/vMcLcr - Blog |
Posted By: Frankman
Date Posted: 14 January 2012 at 00:40
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Hi Jim - yes you are correct, the A77 shoots at 12, 8 and 3 FPS in the various modes. I agree that Magnus is fortunate to have good lighting for these games, affording him the luxury of higher shutter speeds at moderate ISO. In a way, shooting pro games is easier than amateur indoor sport because the lighting is so much better in the former. Jim, what sort of shutter speeds and ISO are you shooting when your aperture is f2.2? Cheers, Frank ------------- *** Sony A850 * A700 * Minolta 5D and other stuff *** |
Posted By: revdocjim
Date Posted: 14 January 2012 at 03:00
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In my kids' home gym I shoot at ISO2500 and get shutter speeds between 1/400s and 1/800s for night games. Here is last night's gallery: http://www.pbase.com/revdocjim/bbb11yokota2" rel="nofollow - http://www.pbase.com/revdocjim/bbb11yokota2 As you can see, even after PP my colors are all over the place. I could take more time but I shoot 2-4 games a week and tend to rush through PP a bit. ------------- http://revdocjim.smugmug.com/ - Gallery A7S, A7Rii, Batis 18/2.8, 25/2 Sony 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 90/2.8M, 24-105/4, Minolta 135STF, 200/2.8 http://goo.gl/vMcLcr - Blog |
Posted By: Asiir
Date Posted: 14 January 2012 at 23:06
I didn't realize this but it is very handy to know. |
revdocjim wrote:Posted By: Asiir
Date Posted: 14 January 2012 at 23:15
| Excellent article, Magnus. Thanks for posting. |
Posted By: brettania
Date Posted: 15 January 2012 at 08:07
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Very comprehensive, Magnus. TFS ------------- http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/posting-images-and-links-faqs_topic28010.html - Posting Images and Links | http://tinyurl.com/oz62mfp - Posts awaiting answers |
Posted By: Swede66
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 11:02
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@Jim, Do you use any noise removal software. I think your shots looks so "clean" for have been shot @ ISO250? I would like to add some shots that didn't fit in the original article. First 2 shots from a dimly lit hall. Some friends and me plays some floorball every monday night and one night I brought my camera. 1. ISO 1600 - f2.8 and 1/250 http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/6635280547/" rel="nofollow">  http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/6635280547/" rel="nofollow - DSC00157 by http://www.flickr.com/people/dyxum2/" rel="nofollow - Swede66 , on Flickr 2. ISO 1600 - f2.8 and 1/200 http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/6635281499/" rel="nofollow">  http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/6635281499/" rel="nofollow - DSC00259 by http://www.flickr.com/people/dyxum2/" rel="nofollow - Swede66 , on Flickr 3. Some more motion blur from a bandygame http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/5460675733/" rel="nofollow">  http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/5460675733/" rel="nofollow - IFK Rättvik vs Örebro by http://www.flickr.com/people/dyxum2/" rel="nofollow - Swede66 , on Flickr 4. another static moment http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/6247591890/" rel="nofollow">  http://www.flickr.com/photos/dyxum2/6247591890/" rel="nofollow - #34 Hanses by http://www.flickr.com/people/dyxum2/" rel="nofollow - Swede66 , on Flickr |
Posted By: @Jetsplace
Date Posted: 28 January 2012 at 02:13
Great article  Impressive shots with those shutterspeeds. Just a question.. Why shoot on manual and not shutterspeed preference? As I shoot soccergames of my sons my preference settings are auto WB but also auto Iso but with the shutter fixed on 1/500 or something around that. Or probably it is a silly question because most likely I already know the answer... in the icehall the light probably remains the same while outside with the soccer it is constantly changing. On manual I had or overexposed or underexposed pictures with sun on and off and I was constantly switching settings but on S - with auto iso it was more or less balanced. ------------- Jet Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible .. Zappa I use google translator to help me with my English |
Posted By: madtownkeith
Date Posted: 30 January 2012 at 15:00
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Great hockey shots. Wish I had that kind of light for my kids' indoor sports, but I know I wouldn't take advantage of it the way you do. A couple questions for you about settings on the a77, and your focus point. What focus point/mode are you using? Do you stick with the center AF point, or do you pick one that would be closer to the faces in your compositions? I've always struggled with this - the camera seems to do best in terms of tracking the action using the center AF spot, but then you end up with faces that are slightly out of focus. Also, how are you activating auto focus? Do you use the AF button on the back, or do you just go with the shutter. And any further thoughts on single shot AF vs continuous? Thanks again! ------------- a77, Sigma 18-250, Sony 35 1.8, Sigma 70-200 HSM II, Rokinon 85 1.4, and other gear constantly on rotation :) |
Posted By: Swede66
Date Posted: 30 January 2012 at 18:12
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@Jetsplace. You're right, the light changes not very much through the areas I cover with my 70-200 in the arena. If I want to shoot something off the ice I just change to aperture priority. During summer I also shoot some soccer and I use aperture priority most of the times. @madtownkeith, I'm still experimenting a little about what autofocus to use. So far, center focus point works best but to get closer without cropping to much I would like to learn to use the zone AF function better. It's very easy to use the centerpoint AF though, then crop the uninteresting parts made possible by the high resolution results the a77 produce. I use the shutter and the continous AF works really well so I rarely use single shot AF during a game. |
Posted By: madtownkeith
Date Posted: 30 January 2012 at 21:22
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Thanks Magnus. I've tried the zone focusing a bit too, but haven't decided if I like it better than center point AF. I did finally bite the bullet on the Sony 70-200 2.8 today, so interested to see how much better it does than my current Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM. Hopefully, the focus limiter will really help with continuous AF. ------------- a77, Sigma 18-250, Sony 35 1.8, Sigma 70-200 HSM II, Rokinon 85 1.4, and other gear constantly on rotation :) |
Posted By: Shinebox
Date Posted: 26 February 2013 at 13:54
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Those shots are nice a crisp. I just posted a question asking for some help on this type of sports shooting. I seemed to have gotten some slightly soft shots while at an indoor roller derby event. I was using the Tamron 70-200 f2.8 with aperture at 2.8 ISO anywhere around 800-1250 depending on shots and zoom range. Single point auto focus continuous mode. All pics were a bit soft and not sharp. I mean they weren't bad but i would not certainly be happy if i was gettting paid. Not sure if it was the lens or what. I have gotten great results at outdoor soccer games with this camera lens combo (A77 and Tammy). |
Posted By: Swede66
Date Posted: 01 March 2013 at 09:07
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@madtownkeith, how do you like your 70-200G? @Shinebox, a couple of questions: the softness you get in the shots, do you think it's motionblur or are they just slightly off focus. I have never been to a roller derby so I really don't know much about it so I was thinking would it help to prefocus? The second thing, maybe your lens is a bit soft at aperture 2.8, compare with your shots taken at the soccergames but compare only with those at F2.8. I would imagine that you get shutterspeeds in around 1/250-1/350 @ 2.8 and ISO around 1000, which I think would be enough but have you tried with faster shutterspeeds? |
Posted By: Shinebox
Date Posted: 01 March 2013 at 12:14
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All my shots were at 2.8 at various focal lengths. I wanted to keep aperture wide open to keep ISO down, set to AUTO. SOme shots were better then others. I am not sure what it was maybe the lighing mixed in with a tad of sotness at 2.8. These pictures were nowhere near the shots above. I mean i would keep them but I wouldn't give them to anyone for use anywhere. I would think that shutter speed would be ok because at most times the derby players aren't moving anywhere near as fast as an ice hockey game. I also had my Canon 60D with a 2.0 35mm L lens and was not impressed wither with those pics. I'm just trying to figure out what i did so I can improve technique. Maybe next time i will try faster shutter and use f4.0. I was also using the center point spot focus with some noise reduction applied. Also had a filter on it and maybe it had a hand in it also. |
Posted By: stiuskr
Date Posted: 01 March 2013 at 12:21
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Shinebox, you should do some lens testing at all aperture settings. Set it up on a tripod and pick a target, and then with center spot focus with AF on just start working your way up from f2.8. Turn SS off and use a remote release or the 2 second delay and while you're at it you can also do the same but only change the ISO values. Then when you're done upload them to a seperate folder and then scroll through the images slideshow style. ------------- Rob Suits Jr. a99M2 a99 a77 a700 KM7D|Min24/2.8 Min35/2 So50/1.4 So50/2.8 Min85/1.4G Tam90/2.8 Tam180/3.5|Tam17-50 CZ24-70G2 KM28-75D So70-200G1 So70-300G So70-400G1| SonyF60 AD200R2 |
Posted By: Shinebox
Date Posted: 01 March 2013 at 12:26
| I did do some of that a few days ago and I thought i noticed some back focusing so i set -6 on AF adjustment and pics seemes sharper, then i took it outside and did some more test shots only to find that it seemed like it wasn't focusing properly on target with -6 set, set it back to 0 micro adjust and it looked good again. Think i am second guessing myself with this. IDK, i'll do some more testing. |
Posted By: Shinebox
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 02:52
| I have seen a lot of reviews about focsing issues with this lens, guess i should have done some more research. |
Posted By: Kilkry
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 13:41
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In two weeks I will be photographing another roller derby event, with the difference that I will have free access to ground level, as long as I'm not in the way, as I will be one of two or more 'official' photographers. Every professional photog I've seen there has used a Canon or Sigma 70-200, but I imagine they can rack up the ISO quite well; except once when I saw a shorter prime of some sort together with an external, onboard flash. The last times I did this it was with the Mino 200 f/2,8 and the 35 f/1,8 SAM, all from a balcony, from which 200mm was a good focal length on a crop sensor. I'd sometimes get ~1/200 - 1/250 with ISO3200 and sometimes ISO1600, at f/2,8 and 200mm and I mostly panned to the rhythm of the derbiers. I don't have the Mino anymore, nor the A580; instead I thought I'd try with a Sigma 85 f/1,4 and an a77. From what I've seen, it will be too slow to AF on derbiers coming against me, although I think with AF-C and panning them from the side can work out OK. I have two queries, if they aren't outside the scope of this thread: For derbiers coming against me: A. Would setting the A77 to AE Speed 12fps mode and the lens to manual focus work, for prefocusing on a spot a couple of meters in front of me, then let loose the x fine jpegs as they near me? Would keeping the AF on and using one of the two continuous shooting modes work better? I plan on using a NEX-3 in the same way; manual focus and AE Speed mode, either with the Sigma 19 f/2,8 (it's sharp), or the non-sharp but good-for-BW-portraits Industar 69 f/2,8 - the latter doesn't contribute to the battery drain and this battery drains quickly. Reg. flash: B. If I'm allowed flash, would it (the Sony 58) work if I stood it on the floor, to the left of me, and then tried to AF as they came towards me and shoot once with the popup flash to get the 58 to light them from the side, do you think? It would be uneven, but it might look cool, if the af had time to lock. I have been tempted to acquire a Tokina 80-200 f/2,8, but by all accounts it won't AF terribly fast even on an A77 and might not be all that sharp wide open. And I will not go over IS1600 for any reason; will aim to keep it at 1250. Any suggestions would be rather welcome. I have photos from the previous events on my flickur if that helps (Grynna). ------------- - |
Posted By: revdocjim
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 17:08
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I have used the A77 with the Min 85/1.4 (and various other lenses) extensively for indoor basketball and volleyball. My settings are as follows: AF-C Burst mode HI (not 12fps) AWB A-mode F/2.2 or f2 ISO 2000 Center spot AF Matrix metering DRO - off Steady Shot On EVF/LCD switching - Manual and set to EVF Auto review - Off I have put all these settings in one of the memory settings (except the last two which need to be set manually). Depending on the gym lighting sometimes I have to adjust the ISO or aperture a bit. The rest is basically up to my ability or lack of such. It has taken a while to improve my timing and probably the single biggest factor has been to learn to shoot with both eyes open. ------------- http://revdocjim.smugmug.com/ - Gallery A7S, A7Rii, Batis 18/2.8, 25/2 Sony 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 90/2.8M, 24-105/4, Minolta 135STF, 200/2.8 http://goo.gl/vMcLcr - Blog |
Posted By: romke
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 19:53
I think this is by far the most important statement you make regarding (indoor) sportsphotography. Equipment and technique of course have their role, but the rules are not that different from other forms of shooting. You need to be able to select a decent WB and to select a suitable combination of aperture and shutter speed so you can record a scene you want it to be recorded and poor lighting makes that more difficult. And of course fast lenses and a speedy AF help there. But in the past people did it manually - and quite well. The most important factor is knowing the particular type of sport. It works two ways - you will most likely have a idea what you want to show and how (and what equipment you will need) and secondly you will be more or less be able to anticipate what will happen where and when. If you don't, most likely you will be too late - each and every time again.... In that respect i like what you say about high speed continuous shooting. I have the same experience. A few shots will do, there is no need for 6 or more. It is all about trying to fire at the precise moment. 10 shots before and 10 shots after do not help you there - if the "middle shot" is just a fraction too soon or too late you still end up with nothing. As for the settings, mine are somewhat different. Usually i set a custom WB. As long as the playing field is more or less evenly lit, you can get away with that and you avoid that the WB is influenced by the prominence of clothing in any particular color. That saves time in post processing. Most times i use manual exposure settings where i choose aperture and shutter speed as required. I start out with some test shots (before the game but with the lighting already on) and then lock the exposure. After that i can change aperture or shutter speed while keeping the EV constant. Focusing is either AF-C or manual with WA shots. Because of the low light in the lower leagues i tend to use primes. I find the use of zooms both a boon and a handicap. The good thing is you can change the framing "on the fly", the downside that you will be trying to record all things that happen all over the place - which imo is quite impossible. Things get easier when you concentrate on a certain area and then after some time on another. If you are lucky, you end up with some quite good shots - if you are not, you end up with nothing because you happened to be at the wrong place, at the wrong time with unsuitable equipment.... May i ask for a second installment about soccer and tennis? |