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Sigma 500 F4.5 APO clean aperture

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Post Options Post Options   Quote travelshots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sigma 500 F4.5 APO clean aperture
    Posted: 11 June 2012 at 20:48
The aperture of my Sigma 500 F4.5 APO moves slowly, so I guess that the aperture blades are oily although no oil on the blades is visible. I want to remove the aperture for cleaning. The question is, how to disemble the lens until I can remove the aperure. The lens is the old non-EX version like shown here:
http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Sigma-500-F4.5-APO_lens360.html

I have started to disemble the lens from the backside. I have removed the mount, but behind I can not find any screws that are obviously the rigt ones to remove the next lens section. Does anybody know how to go on? I have searched the internet but haven't found any useful hints.
A7rIV A7rIII A7s RX100 SEL 20 1.8 SEL 24-105 SEL 200-600 SEL TC14 TC2.0 LA-EA5 LA-EA3 A-Mt. Min7000 Samyang 8mm 14mm 24mm 35mm 85mm SAL 50f1.4 Min 100f2 Cosina Macro 100f3.5 Min 100-300APO SAL70-400G
 



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tpetpe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tpetpe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2012 at 20:58
At first guess (I have not had one of these to bits before so it is at your own risk) look for any rubber sections and see if they are removable without damage, although it looks like there is nothing on this lens like that?!

It is typical sigma to have a pair of sleved tubes held together by an adhesive tape under the rubber grip. In which case you can remove the grip, Mark the sections for allignment with a felt tip pen under the original position of the grip. Untape the black tape and attach the ends to something so as you can use it to retape the lens afterwards and then gently pull the sections appart (looking for electric ribbon connectors as you do). Otherwise it is possible in some of the smaller primes to get in through the front of the lens using a friction grip on something of similar size to a retaining ring holding the front element, pushing reasonabley hard and turning anticlockwise of course :).

Best of luck.

Tim

Edited by tpetpe - 11 June 2012 at 21:04
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travelshots View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote travelshots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2012 at 14:47
Thank you, Tim. I am not sure about all the locations you mentioned. Here is an image where I have assigned numbers to the different lens sections. The silde in filter holder is on the right edge of section 1 and the focussing scale in section 2 just below the number 2.


Image 1 Overview



Image 2 View from behind after removing the mount
A7rIV A7rIII A7s RX100 SEL 20 1.8 SEL 24-105 SEL 200-600 SEL TC14 TC2.0 LA-EA5 LA-EA3 A-Mt. Min7000 Samyang 8mm 14mm 24mm 35mm 85mm SAL 50f1.4 Min 100f2 Cosina Macro 100f3.5 Min 100-300APO SAL70-400G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tpetpe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2012 at 20:23
Hey Travelshots, please excuse the state of this post, the wife has monopolised my pc so i was stuck on a linux laptop with gimp which i know nothing about and my macro kit is at work so only a snapshot here.

Hopefully there are three x visable where the screws of the section under the mount come off on a similar age lens if i can upload from this laptop. However this does not give access to the apperture on all (if any) lenses. The next section down comes off this lens by removal of the tape hidden under the rubber grip circled in green. Hopefully your lens being much better quality than this one will be easier to work on. You may find that you can turn the housing of the rear element if you actually need to get to the apperture, but as you say they dont look as if they have any oil on them. If you are lucky you may find that one of the rotating section (located on the backside of the section removed or on the opposing face of the following section in the picture below) under the next element has oil on it preventing it from rotating easily, then it might be an easy fix. fingers crossed.



Tim



Edited by tpetpe - 12 June 2012 at 20:36
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travelshots View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote travelshots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2012 at 21:17
Great, those 3 screws are located exactly like on my lens! I have now released already two of the three screws but then my tiny cross type screwdriver gave up. I have to buy a new one tomorrow to continue.

A7rIV A7rIII A7s RX100 SEL 20 1.8 SEL 24-105 SEL 200-600 SEL TC14 TC2.0 LA-EA5 LA-EA3 A-Mt. Min7000 Samyang 8mm 14mm 24mm 35mm 85mm SAL 50f1.4 Min 100f2 Cosina Macro 100f3.5 Min 100-300APO SAL70-400G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tpetpe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2012 at 13:32
Hey travelshots, i hope this is going well, if anything comes of it, it would be very interesting to hear how it goes and what the actual cause was.

Best

Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Quote joestealthmode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2012 at 14:10
Try to unscrew the entire element set. The set appears to be a fixed cylinder. it should expose the aperture blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote travelshots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2012 at 23:22
Originally posted by tpetpe tpetpe wrote:

Hey travelshots, i hope this is going well, if anything comes of it, it would be very interesting to hear how it goes and what the actual cause was.


I haven't had much time to go on, but bought at least new screwdrivers. The head of one of the three screws is damaged and I haven't manged to remove that screw yet, but maybe I dont't have to (see below).

Originally posted by joestealthmode joestealthmode wrote:

Try to unscrew the entire element set. The set appears to be a fixed cylinder. it should expose the aperture blades.


I guess you are right. When I looked at the lens today, I noticed that the transition between section 1 and 2 looked like it is a scrwed on metal sheeting pipe. I gripped it firmly and really could screw it off.




It seems that my lens is from 1991:


Besides of some dirt, now 6 screws are visible. 3 that hold the tread where the shielding pipe was mounted and 3 that likely have to be removed to detatch that lens section. Unfortunately, two of the 3 screws have damaged heads. Obviously, someone has been working here before. Now I have to find out, how to remove these screws that are mounted firmly / tight. Warming up might cause some grease in the mechanics to flow, so I hesitate to do that. Drilling out the screw and cutting a new thread also sounds not very attractive to me.
A7rIV A7rIII A7s RX100 SEL 20 1.8 SEL 24-105 SEL 200-600 SEL TC14 TC2.0 LA-EA5 LA-EA3 A-Mt. Min7000 Samyang 8mm 14mm 24mm 35mm 85mm SAL 50f1.4 Min 100f2 Cosina Macro 100f3.5 Min 100-300APO SAL70-400G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tpetpe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 17:34
Hi travelshots, sorry just seen this and had been looking out for it. It looks like you have got a long way.

Not a lot of advice about the screws, except dont heat them and do try penetrating oil and leaving them in a warmish room for a week or so and then turning them just a 16th of a turn clockwise before anticlockwise (the heads are not usually so damaged for clockwise turning and this may break the oxide build up that is causing them to seize).

Also the problem with these screws is is worse because of the aluminum oxide build. normally when a screw seizes it is possible to remove the head and as the remainder is no longer under tension they come out by turning the shank with a pair of long nose pliers. In this case there is a very good chance this will not work as the oxide may be on the thread its self.

If the above dosent work a risky process is taking a dremel and cleaning up the slot a little or making it so as a streight edge screwdriver will fit, but even then there is a good chance that the weakened head will break when being unscrewed.

Hand threadding on these size srewes is also a pain and it is awkward just getting hold of a tap that will cut the thread deep enough in the hole even if you get the sets of 3 (which is often a necessity).

Thanks for showing the pictures and I keep my fingers crossed to hear more.

Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 18:55
Penetrating oil and patience is the first step.

While you are waiting have a good look at your screwdrivers. You need a perfect fit and good strength with those damaged heads.

I always by ones marked chrome vanadium for strength.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote travelshots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 19:26
thanks for your continued support, Tim. I had no time to gon on with work on the lens during the past two weeks, but your post motivated me do the next little step. I removed the 4 screws that fixed the cover to the next lens section (section 2). Now it is easier to access the screws with the rotten heads. After closing all openings of the lens, I have put e little MOS 2 oil around that srews. Now it has to react for a while. Afterwards, I will try to hammer a slot in the damaged screw heads.

A few imges:





http://www.sonyuserforum.de/galerie/data/media/6/Sigma500Zerlegung_031acrkl.jpg



A7rIV A7rIII A7s RX100 SEL 20 1.8 SEL 24-105 SEL 200-600 SEL TC14 TC2.0 LA-EA5 LA-EA3 A-Mt. Min7000 Samyang 8mm 14mm 24mm 35mm 85mm SAL 50f1.4 Min 100f2 Cosina Macro 100f3.5 Min 100-300APO SAL70-400G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote travelshots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2012 at 21:14
Blame, thank you also very much for your input! (came during I wrote my last post)

Originally posted by tpetpe tpetpe wrote:


Not a lot of advice about the screws, except dont heat them


Why? I already tried it with a soldering iron (50W), but that was too weak. Next would be 150W. But I will wait for your reply before doing that.
A7rIV A7rIII A7s RX100 SEL 20 1.8 SEL 24-105 SEL 200-600 SEL TC14 TC2.0 LA-EA5 LA-EA3 A-Mt. Min7000 Samyang 8mm 14mm 24mm 35mm 85mm SAL 50f1.4 Min 100f2 Cosina Macro 100f3.5 Min 100-300APO SAL70-400G
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tpetpe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2012 at 21:45
We were once told in school that if it is aluminum and steel that the aluminum should be heated as it has a greater thermal conductivity and coeficient of expansion, and that if you couldnt do it that way round you shouldnt do it. But i was also just thinking that if you were to heat the barrel up it would damage the ZEN coating pretty quickly and would may just make everything else worse so wouldnt reccomend it for any lens.


I am not sure i would hammer a slot into the screw, but i guess it could be done very carefully. and perhaps it could be used tapping the phillips screwdriver into the original slot to reform it a little? The thing that really knackers those tiny screws is if the circumference of the head is cut they tear appart easily on turning. How much pressure can you get on the screw driver? If you get someone else to help you it can often be sucessful even on partially dammage screws. Make sure the lens isnt going to fall to the side under pressure (fasten it or get someone strong to hold it. Then push down with the screwdriver so as you can use it to support your weight, a straight locked arm with your hand directly under your should. In this position you should not be able to turn the screwdriver so you have to ask someone to use a pair of mullgrips to turn the screwdriver when you are pushing it down. Try a couple of degrees clockwise if it doesnt come off immediatly, and then anticlockwise again. It may sound daft but it is a technique that has saved me a number of times.

Tim

Edited by tpetpe - 03 July 2012 at 21:30
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