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Which Minoltas can use unperf film?

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igreenhalgh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which Minoltas can use unperf film?
    Posted: 17 November 2013 at 16:29
Hi folks

I shoot unperf microfilm in an EOS 10qd, which has a sprocketless drive system. However, I'd much prefer to be able to use my Minolta AF lenses, so I'm wondering, are any of the Minolta SLRs capable of using unperf film?
 



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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 16:54
Just checked:
Dynax (Maxxum) 800si and 7xi both have sprockets.
Dynax (Maxxum) 9 has sprockets at the bottom.
Dynax (Maxxum) 4, 5 and 7 have no sprockets.

So, the last generation seems to work with unperforated film it seems.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 17:07
Cheers Addy, that's very useful info. I'll look for the 4, 5 and 7. :)
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Bob J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 17:56
I think the 7 might count the sprockets with an IR sensor to judge how far it needs to wind the film - not sure what it would do with no sprokets...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 18:22
How does the EOS 10qd count frames?
Maybe this is interesting: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-ir/ - it seems unclear how the 10 does it....

Edit: found it, just like the Dynax 7, the EOS 10 counts sprocket holes with IR according to MIR: www.mir.com.my EOS10QD

Edited by addy landzaat - 17 November 2013 at 18:28
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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 18:50
I haven't had to modify the EOS 10qd in any way, it just works. I tape 2 inches of exposed perfed film to the beginning of the unperf roll as it needs one sprocket hole to load for some reason. I used to just cut one hole in the unperf but it was hit and miss, with the bit of perf taped on, it always loads it.

I think mir is wrong about the EOs 10qd using an IR diode for two reasons - the camera gives perfect frame spacing with the unperf and Canon stated the camera was capable of using IR film, if it used an IR diode, that would fog IR film.

Do you know if Minolta specify if the Dynax 7 or any of the other sprocketless models are capable of using IR film?
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 18:57
I thought I should show some images to explain why I like using microfilm, it's the closest I can get to my beloved but sadly discontinued Kodak Technical Pan. Here's a couple of shots using Kodak Imagelink HQ microfilm:





The grain is miniscule and the sharpness is superb, in this example it is limited by the Sigma zoom lens I used, with a sharp prime, it's as good as you can achieve on 35mm.



A couple of shots using Agfa Copex HDP13 microfilm:



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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 19:18
No, I don't think they're IR safe. I'm sure the 4, 5 and 7 aren't as mhohner says so. But I don't know how the EOS 10 keeps track.....

Nice pictures btw. Tmax100 is still to grainy for your taste?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 19:34
Yes, it's intriguing me how the EOS does it, but it works. With the tiny price of used dynax 4 and 5 bodies, I will just grab one and try it.

I'd love a dynax 7, looks like one of the most advanced 35mm cameras ever made.

I like TMAX100, I use it fairly often. There are two other reasons I should have mentioned why I like the microfilm, firstly, it's damn cheap, the last 3 30m rolls of Kodak Imagelink HQ I bought cost me 7.29ukp each. Secondly, it's inherently high contrast makes it perform beautifully in dull, gray conditions, which I often have to deal with up her in the north of England. it means I can shoot on days when 'normal' films like FP4 and TMAX would gave me flat, gray results.

I mostly use Kodak Microdol-X (or rather, the Speedibrews copy of it these days) as my developer and using it I can get TMAX100 to come out with grain only slightly greater than Tech Pan and similar tonality, if I rate the TMAX at 50. I find if I use it with a 1:3 dilution it is perfect for use with the microfilms as it gives a wide tonal range and tames the contrast.

Some Tech Pan done in Microdol-X:





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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob Maddison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 19:36
With your Canon, are the frames uniformly spaced? The main drive is normally made so as to give just a little more movement than one frame, especially as the diameter of the spool increases as the film is transported. The usual function of the sprockets and the IR indexer is to declutch the drive after a single frame and thus maintain uniform frame spacing.

As for the IR fogging the film, a lot depends on the brightness of the LED used, how big an area it covers and also on the actual IR spectrum it utilises. Light spillage will also depend on how closely the camera back fits against the film rebates. One clue is to look at the film rebates. If IR indexing is used, there should be some indication of it here even if it doesn't spill into the frame area. Whilst this should be very obvious on sprocketless film, even with normal film stock there will be some evidence around the sprocket holes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2013 at 19:51
Hi Bob

The EOS 10qd gives me uniformly spaced frames from the beginning to the end of the roll whether I use perf or unperf film, so how it determines the spacing, I don't know.

I've never shot any IR film in it and I don't have any IR film to try.

I've just bought a Dynax 4 for 7.88ukp inc postage from ebay so I'll report back on how/if it works with the unperf film in a few days. If it doesn't work, it will still be useful, my only other Minolta bodies are a pair of 7000s that I've been using since 1992 and are looking rather worn these days, but still work fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2013 at 14:30
The Dynax 4 arrived, I'm impressed by it's tiny size and weight.

I put a roll of unperf microfilm in it, it loaded it instantly and it works perfectly!

Image samples to come later. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2013 at 14:38
Great! Like my 4 also. 5 is better, but you can't go wrong with the 4
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Post Options Post Options   Quote igreenhalgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2013 at 15:34
Cheers Addy. I'm a very old-fashioned shooter so the extra features of the 5 are no great loss to me.

I would like a 7 though. :)

BTW, I didn't get any indication of frames used but it did rewind when it hit the end of the roll so it looks like the IR diode is just there for frame counting purposes. I'll know for sure when I develop the roll later and see how the frame spacing is.
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