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3rd party batteries for A7 series

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Wētāpunga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 06:39
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

I prefer using original Sony branded batteries, but I got a Wasabi NP-FW50 with a second hand camera I bought and it performs flawlessly. It works in my A6000 and my A7r2. I do not see major differences between the Wasabi and the Sony ones - but I did not do any real testing, just using it in the rotation of batteries.


I’m another fan of Wasabi. In fact I’ve had one genuine Sony die on me whilst the Wasabi keep on ticking along.
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 09:55
Originally posted by beautiophile beautiophile wrote:


Nowadays, the quality gap of battery cells among manufacturers is relatively small. The importance is the battery circuit board which controls the discharge and communication with the camera.

The danger is that (as happened a lot with nicads and Nimh cells) the manufacturers don't throw away cell batches that fail to meet their test criteria, but sell them off for less critical applications ... and these re-enter the camera battery market by unscrupulous 3rd party firms.
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote woodrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2019 at 22:46
I just looked for Wasabi batteries on ebay and see some big price differences. Looking carefully at the labels on the battery reverse side, I see differences. Is there a problem with counterfeiting?
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woodrim
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2019 at 07:19
There is. Many of the Chinese camera batteries appear to be recyled maanufacturing rejects with false labels. They *may* work for a while but are quite likely to give problems.
If you don't want to pay Sony prices, look for alternative parts from reputable suppliers, or buy from a shop and take their advice. I've found Duracell and Ansmann reliable.
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2021 at 11:23
Found this article testing 3rd party alternatives to NP-FW50 batteries
https://www.outsidetheshot.com/sony-np-fw50-batteries/
Interesting
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2021 at 20:38
Originally posted by Dave18 Dave18 wrote:

Found this article testing 3rd party alternatives to NP-FW50 batteries
https://www.outsidetheshot.com/sony-np-fw50-batteries/
Interesting

Interesting link. Unfortunately 'capacity' is only half the problem - the other half is the internal resistance. I did some detailed battery testing a while ago on Sony and non-Sony batteries (both NP-FW50 and the larger ones from A-mount cameras), and discovered that the NP-FW50s have borderline internal resistance for the loads taken.

The result is that the voltage falls under load so much that the camera will cut out before the nominal capacity is reached on ALL batteries (even Sony). The difference is that expensive top-brand batteries have a lower internal resistance and will maintain voltage under load quite a long way into their capacity, whereas the cheap ones (probably recycled factory-test rejects) drop below the minimum permitted voltage very quickly.

Testing at the 1-hour rate will pick this up, if you set the endpoint voltage correctly* for the camera concerned and don't rely on the charger/cycler's internal setting.

The larger capacity on the -500H batteries makes them less sensitive to this problem (and the A-mount cameras often use less current too) which is why cheap Ebay batteries often work okay on the later A-mount cameras.

*I should point out also that 3V is NOT a suitable end-point. This is the damage voltage! A fully-charged (modern) Li-Ion or Li-Polymer prismatic cell (the flat ones) is 4.2V. Capacity is ALL used up by the time the battery EMF (its internal driving voltage) reaches 3.7V, though the terminal voltage may be less than this under load. A good tester releases the discharge current briefly to measure the terminal voltage, then resumes discharge.
I think the Sony camera I tested cut off around 7.2V. I did show a graph here the last time this came up.


Edited by Miranda F - 03 January 2021 at 20:50
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2021 at 22:21
Batteries are a third reason I'm glad I'm not a video shooter
(compute and drive space the other two)

From 2005 (my 100% digital moment) thru 2010-2012-ish I was happy to use third party cells
And have never had an issue with them.

But, today, I look at the value of the camera - what that dollar means 'to me' - and that the manufacturer will always state "our batteries only". So, I no longer use 3rd part cells.

Video peeps with their 8x batteries probably unable to shoot this way.

I got a 3rd party charger (for my RX100) which came with 2x cells. They are both lower mAh - tried one on full charge and it was already showing one bar down (to be clear, it was advertised as lower capacity and was super cheap). Getting the charger with cells seemed sensible for re-sale (2x unused spare cells).

One of my mirrorless bodies came with a bonus 'official' 2nd cell, have never used it. Good being stills only and converting to 'single frame advance' two years ago (that and not being allowed to travel).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jadom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2021 at 14:47
Since I joined Sony gang I had to use some of NP-FW50 batteries. And I quickly discovered one thing. No matter which battery I have used: original Sony or third party one - I have never got even close to amount of pics they were said.
So during the years (about 10) I used original batteries as well as third party ones. And because I also discovered a huge difference in price between original and third party one - I started to use these last ones. I still have original Sony battery but I have increased my batteries reserve by 4 new third party ones bought directly in China what (including shipping) costed me pennies.
And because I also bought battery grip (also in China) I don't care about battery life anymore. I simply have 8 or 10 spares in my backpack and that's it. And one more thing: I have two chargers so charging takes not too long.
This is just my 2 cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote woodrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2021 at 15:26
I have two Sony NP-FW50 batteries and have not needed more than that on any one day shoot. Still, I keep thinking of purchasing additional power supplies. One of my batteries is new and one nine years old but I haven't seen any difference in capacity. Is there an expected life-span for the Sony batteries?

I'm not very interested in paying a third the price for a third the capacity. I had at one point considered using one of the larger power cells - portable chargers but am not convinced of their longevity.

Since I'm an old photographer, I still look at this digital world with amazement. My usual day shooting now would be the equivalent of six or seven rolls of 36 exposure film. I never used that much film in a day unless I was doing a wedding and even then, I don't remember it being that many. My flash battery was the bigger problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2021 at 17:04

Here's the graph for the test I did. I can't remember what the actual cut-off voltage was for the camera, but that affects the effective duration.If the cut-off is 6.7V or higher, the cheap batteries only show half the duration.

The solid blue line si the larger A58 battery for comparison, and the dotted line is the same curve with the time reduced according to the nominal capacity. You can see none of the NP-50 batteries perform as well as they 'ought' to do, and that is entirely due to the internal resistance.



Edited by Miranda F - 06 January 2021 at 17:07
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote woodrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 17:17
Has anyone encountered counterfeit Sony batteries?
Regards,

woodrim
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Post Options Post Options   Quote overeema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 18:18
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

<snip...> Companies like Wasabi of Jupio seem quite reliable. If you want to be sure, yes, stuck with OEM batteries. That is what I do, but third party batteries do not necessary be worse - but it usually are more expensive brands....

I have 3 sizes of batteries in rotating use: FM500, FW50 and FV70
Pretty bad experience with Jupio FV70 (life span, info an charging level), so I didn't dare to save some money on the FM500 and FW50.
But I am quite happy with my Nitecore USB-chargers.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 18:26
Originally posted by Jadom Jadom wrote:

Since I joined Sony gang I had to use some of NP-FW50 batteries. And I quickly discovered one thing. No matter which battery I have used: original Sony or third party one - I have never got even close to amount of pics they were said.
This is highly dependant on individual use. I noticed one thing that improves battery life: set your camera to EVF. Yes, the EVF will drain more power when in use, but it will turn off as soon as you remove your eye from the viewfinder. Stopping the most important power drain in the camera.

If you keep the standard auto setting, the camera will go to the main screen - the screen drains less power but it still drains a lot. Also, the EVF will react quicker when the screen is off. Do you want to be easily able to switch from EVF to screen? Assign a button.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 18:37
At least one UK camera store (actual physical store) actively sells third-party batteries. And this is probably the only ones I would try - you could then point at the camera store if something goes wrong.

I was sold one fujifilm 3rd party battery and it reported about 80% charge when full (it was a lower capacity as per the label). I charged it once, put it in the camera, saw the 80% and sold it as 'used once'. Pointless saving in my mind. But then again - I don't shoot video and don't need 8x spares. Price is a big factor when you need that many.

Didn't one of the A7 series bodies ship with 2x cells in the box??
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