FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

a350 first impressions

Page  <12345>
Author
artuk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 06 July 2007
Country: United Kingdom
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Posts: 3751
Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2008 at 21:55
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

artuk,

i was trying to be ironic which i obviously failed :(
I share your opinion, but as i said many users are happy with what Sony has made and this is most probably the way a-mount will be build in the future.


That is largely what worries me, and I understand your comments about "gadgets" vs. cameras.

It seems that these models are very marketing led - basically an entry-level revamped A100, and a couple of variant with sexy "live view" and more pixels (which obviously equals better pictures, in the minds of inexperienced consumers). As you point out, they lack some quite basic photographic features that would never have been left out of anything but the most basic entry level SLR body.

I worry that Sony will progress down a line of marketing led gadgetry rather than features that users who understand photography may want or use.

I hadn't appreciated your comments about rivals were ironic. I don't see an A350 as a competitor to the K20D, as the photographic spec is too basic. The A200 may compare to the new Nikon D60, as that also is a very entry level body (as was the D40/x that it replaces). The A300 vs the Canon D450 I cannot really comment - it may well compare as Canon have never had much idea of ergonomics on entry level cameras, in my opinion.

It would be nice if a new "5 series" camera was to come along with the features that photographers may look for. However, if it "up range" of the new models then I wonder about the pricing - much more than an A350 would put it potentially quite close to the A700. Having handled one, that is the camera I would like if I were to upgrade my Dynax 5D, but the UK price is currently too high to justify it - and I still want full frame, even though I think the pixel count is too high, along with the likely UK price.
Art
 



Back to Top
kiklop View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Dyxum owner

Joined: 14 July 2005
Country: Croatia
Location: Rovinj
Status: Offline
Posts: 10563
Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2008 at 22:03
I would rather not starting another thread about this topic; we have several threads about what sony has provided and opinions do vary a lot with again, most people happy with a200/a300/a350 which proves that Sony is doing fine job (some of us that aren't convinced are invited to switch if we aren't happy so .. if there is anyone who is rich enough to buy me a D3 i'm gone :))
Back to Top
wetapunga View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 02 September 2007
Country: New Zealand
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Posts: 5164
Post Options Post Options   Quote wetapunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 00:17
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

I would rather not starting another thread about this topic; we have several threads about what sony has provided and opinions do vary a lot with again,..


Quite.
Sony is following a well-established business model of bundling attributes at different price-points.

Most people buying entry level DSLRs will come from a p&s background, and their numbers dwarf the experienced photographer. A large percentage- if my brother-in-law is anything to go by- will never use any setting other than 'auto'. These people are going to buy based on mega-pixels (and I've explained until I'm blue in the face why this doesn't really matter), the cool-look (live-views) and warm glow from having a "serious camera" (sic). They will baulk however, at spending the cash on a model with features that are incomprehensible.

It makes perfect (business) sense to put more of the features desired by proficient photographers on the high-end models. We're far more likely to spend the price-premium to ensure we get it. If Sony is correct, they'll sell us more 700s (or 500s) than they would otherwise. That won't exactly be a problem for them.
a7R, a77ii, QX100 | Minolta 17-35mm G, 20mm, 35-105mm O, 50mm M, 70-210 beercan, 85mm G, 100mm M, 300mm G | Sony 16-50mm, CZ16-80mm, 70-200mm G, 135mm f2.8 STF | Tokina 11-16mm
Back to Top
artuk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 06 July 2007
Country: United Kingdom
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Posts: 3751
Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 01:04
The customer is king... but sometimes the king is stupid! ;-)
Art
Back to Top
artuk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 06 July 2007
Country: United Kingdom
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Posts: 3751
Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 08:50
And here is an example of why, taken from David Kilpatrick's review of the A200.

"The reason there is a duplicate orange label stuck to the hot shoe is because there is no hot shoe cover supplied with this camera. Sony’s Paul Genge (UK Technical Sales Manager for DSLRs) tells me that they did some market research, and found that Joe Average looked at the cameras they were producing, and concluded a) they had no built in flash because there was no button and the design didn’t make the flash obvious b) they could not use flashguns either because they had no hot shoe."
Art
Back to Top
kiklop View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Dyxum owner

Joined: 14 July 2005
Country: Croatia
Location: Rovinj
Status: Offline
Posts: 10563
Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 10:17
Originally posted by artuk artuk wrote:

And here is an example of why, taken from David Kilpatrick's review of the A200.

"The reason there is a duplicate orange label stuck to the hot shoe is because there is no hot shoe cover supplied with this camera. Sonyís Paul Genge (UK Technical Sales Manager for DSLRs) tells me that they did some market research, and found that Joe Average looked at the cameras they were producing, and concluded a) they had no built in flash because there was no button and the design didnít make the flash obvious b) they could not use flashguns either because they had no hot shoe."


With all due respect to David and Paul Genge but the reason not to include hot shoe cover is to save money IMHO( and possibly earn something when selling these caps for about 6-7$). If the mentioned was the case then Sony would include the cap in the box (not necessary attached to the camera).

 



Back to Top
Heidfirst View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 31 August 2005
Country: Scotland
Location: Glasgow
Status: Offline
Posts: 1736
Post Options Post Options   Quote Heidfirst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 10:38
Originally posted by blueshift blueshift wrote:


do you think there is a possibilty to get the firmaware "hacked" and activate the mlu and dof preview?

given that DOF preview usually involves a mechanical stopping down of the aperture via a button & that appears to be absent I doubt it ...

David Kilpatrick did an article which included why DoF preview on modern optical viewfinders doesn't really show the true picture properly http://photoclubalpha.com/2008/01/31/how-the-live-view-a300-and-a350-will-work/ & why it therefore shouldn't work on Sony's live view implementation either (unlike e.g. on the Canon 40D done another way).


Personally I haven't used DoF preview for a long, long time (probably back to my XD5) & I've never used MLU but that's maybe just because of what I tend to shoot & I'm probably as atypical as someone who uses them all the time.

Edited by Heidfirst - 19 February 2008 at 10:41
Back to Top
aarif View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 21 September 2005
Country: United Arab Emirates
Location: Dubai
Status: Offline
Posts: 5421
Post Options Post Options   Quote aarif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 11:27
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

if there is anyone who is rich enough to buy me a D3 i'm gone :))


I will call Sony and ask if they take special orders here what I'll say,

Please Sony make me 3 bodies using the sensor made for D3 all other specs could be the same as A700 don't forget I still want SSS and no NR in RAW please.

I'll send you one right away I think it can keep us happy for a while and you won't have to leave us

PS. Sony please don't forget do something about the colors
Back to Top
Sanjuro View Drop Down
Emeritus group
Emeritus group
Administrator emeritus

Joined: 19 September 2005
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Posts: 5849
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sanjuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 11:29
Originally posted by artuk artuk wrote:

The customer is king... but sometimes the king is stupid! ;-)

If this would have been true... (I think your 2nd statement is more true )
We would never accept PC with 1/2 SW done were you need to download the patches for the bugs (and pay extra a lot of money for it), we would have already better cars, we would not let the airlines companies treat us as cows and etc etc.

We just buy things we get offered, we have the power but we never used and accept whatever the market offers.

I think the A200/300/350 are exactly in line with Sony's gadgetery phylosophy.
Sony is a gadget company not a photography one, a lot of their products are very nice and some you can live with out.
So for a new person trying to test the DSRL worl I think any of these 3 would make him happy.

For me these are these in the unnecesary line of Sony products
I rather jump to the A700.

Thanks kiklop for this info, very useful though the details in the A350 seems very good, I need to play arround with original sample.
Rgds
Sanjuro

"I paint objects as I think them, not as I see them." --Pablo Picasso
Back to Top
Gabriel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Emeritus Member

Joined: 05 December 2006
Location: France
Status: Offline
Posts: 1931
Post Options Post Options   Quote Gabriel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 12:18
Originally posted by Sanjuro Sanjuro wrote:


I think the A200/300/350 are exactly in line with Sony's gadgetery phylosophy.
Sony is a gadget company not a photography one, a lot of their products are very nice and some you can live with out.


Actually Sony has both: gadgets and professionnal equipment. As an example of pro equipment they have studio cameras and monitoring displays. Both are very expensive, but of really good quality.

Unfortunately (for me, but fortunately for many more people) Sony's message from January is clear: Sony's DSLR mostly belong to the Consumer Electronic family (ie gadgetry)
Pic a day 2008 /2009/2010 galleries
Back to Top
artuk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 06 July 2007
Country: United Kingdom
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Posts: 3751
Post Options Post Options   Quote artuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 12:32
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

Originally posted by artuk artuk wrote:

And here is an example of why, taken from David Kilpatrick's review of the A200.

"The reason there is a duplicate orange label stuck to the hot shoe is because there is no hot shoe cover supplied with this camera. Sonyís Paul Genge (UK Technical Sales Manager for DSLRs) tells me that they did some market research, and found that Joe Average looked at the cameras they were producing, and concluded a) they had no built in flash because there was no button and the design didnít make the flash obvious b) they could not use flashguns either because they had no hot shoe."


With all due respect to David and Paul Genge but the reason not to include hot shoe cover is to save money IMHO( and possibly earn something when selling these caps for about 6-7$). If the mentioned was the case then Sony would include the cap in the box (not necessary attached to the camera).



Are you seriously suggesting a 2 cent bit of moulded plastic was left off the A220/A300/A350 as a cost saving initiative???

I actually beleive Paul Genge - they probably did some market research with the general public rather than photographers (even novice ones) and found that stupid people think that not having a hot shoe visible means the camera doesn't have one.

It's just the kind of marketing-led strategy that a consumer electronics company like Sony would take...

...but as I said, the customer is king... but often stupid.
Art
Back to Top
MiPr View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Mikre Dyxum Administrator

Joined: 25 August 2006
Country: Poland
Location: Wroclaw
Status: Offline
Posts: 21378
Post Options Post Options   Quote MiPr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 12:36
Originally posted by Gabriel Gabriel wrote:

Unfortunately (for me, but fortunately for many more people) Sony's message from January is clear: Sony's DSLR mostly belong to the Consumer Electronic family (ie gadgetry)
I do not agree with that. Simply: the company which wins low-end market wins the battle. Nikon understands this well (D40, D40x, D60) and so does Canon (their 350D revolutionized this market in the end). Yes you can make D3-type camera, but how much buyers there will be? I think that real profit is in thousands of low-end cameras.

Besides please remember that Sony released A700 which is well on par with other cameras in this segment and which is regarded less "gadgety" than others (and this was deemed as wrong: "What? No live view?").

So A700 - too little "gadgety" - wrong. A200/300/350 - too "gadgety" - again wrong.

Let's wait for the flagship to see what happens (e.g. what if they release the flagship in two or three "flavours" - just like A300/350?)
I'm noise-blind. And noise-about-noise-deaf too ... |   BTW, Dyxum Weekly Exhibitions don't grow on trees ...
Back to Top
Gabriel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Emeritus Member

Joined: 05 December 2006
Location: France
Status: Offline
Posts: 1931
Post Options Post Options   Quote Gabriel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 12:55
Originally posted by mipr mipr wrote:

I do not agree with that. Simply: the company which wins low-end market wins the battle. Nikon understands this well (D40, D40x, D60) and so does Canon (their 350D revolutionized this market in the end). Yes you can make D3-type camera, but how much buyers there will be? I think that real profit is in thousands of low-end cameras.


Hum...I think that we agree (but I probably failed to properly express my opinion).
It's just unfortunate for ME, as this means that the new entry-levels DSLRs are not suitable to me while a700 is too expensive for me. But it's fortunate for many more people as this mean the current entry-level DSLRs are suitable for them, and will likely sell like hotcakes.

I agree that the current way is a good business decision. It might be a bad photographic decision, but still a business decision. And of course, you need good business decisions to survive, which could imply that purely photographic decisions are a bad idea, doomed to failure.
It's a bit what happened to Minolta.

Now, I'm wondering if I'm only interested by products doomed to failure? (Hey, I'm now really looking at Pentax, perhaps they will be the next business failure?)
Pic a day 2008 /2009/2010 galleries
Back to Top
Heidfirst View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 31 August 2005
Country: Scotland
Location: Glasgow
Status: Offline
Posts: 1736
Post Options Post Options   Quote Heidfirst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2008 at 12:56
Originally posted by mipr mipr wrote:

I think that real profit is in thousands of low-end cameras.

if you believe Kodak it's in the lenses so more people into the system at the bottom > more addon lens sales down the line.
Back to Top
Dyxum main page >  Forum Home > Equipment forums > Camera Talk > A-mount APS-C Page  <12345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.

Monitor calibration strip

Dyxum.com - Home of the alpha system photographer

In memory of Cameron Hill - brettania

Feel free to contact us if needed.