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A57 Replacement Adv

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LowRyter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LowRyter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 00:46
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

I have used the A65, A58, A68 and A77II for motorsports. I tried an A57 briefly. I don't think it made it to an event. I disliked the A77II--size, weight, battery life, controls. The viewfinder only supports live view at 3 FPS (as does every other SLT except the A99II.) The A68 has an even odder control scheme. Both operate different from the A65, A57, and A58.

The new 79-point AF model and 4D Focus in the A77II and A68 sometimes focuses worse than the old 15-point system. If you want better AF you might want to look at the A6600, despite its ergonomic problems.

Third-party lenses like your Tamron and Sigma don't support the 4x tracking performance of current A-mount lenses on these bodies. These are the lenses for best tracking on A77+ bodies:

SAL1650 DT 16-50mm F2.8 SSM
SAL18135 DT 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 SAM
SAL55300 DT 55-300mm F4.5-5.6 SAM
SAL1635Z2 16-35mm F2.8 ZA SSM II Vario-Sonnar T*
SAL2470Z2 24-70mm F2.8 ZA SSM II Vario-Sonnar T*
SAL50F14Z 50mm F1.4 ZA SSM Planar T*
SAL70200G2 70-200mm F2.8 G SSM II
SAL70300G2 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G SSM II
SAL70400G2 70-400mm F4-5.6 G SSM II
SAL300F28G2 300mm F2.8 G SSM II
SAL500F40G 500mm F4 G SSM

I would suggest another A57--maybe an original A77 if you want to learn different controls.


I'm still not certain what is meant by 4D. Is that related to Hybrid Focusing?

I read this on DP:

How would a purchaser know if a lens is hybrid AF enabled or not?

All SSM/SAM lenses + 35/1.4G, 50/1.4, 50/2.8, 85/1.4Z, 100/2.8, 135/1.8Z, DT 16-80Z

Tamron lenses that borrow the Lens ID of one of the above: 70-300USD and 60/2.


Would that indicate that my Tamron 70-300 would have that capability?
Sony A57 and A100 cameras. Sony 18-70 Kit, Minolta 70-210 Beer Can, Sigma 17-70 and Tamron 70-300 USD lenses
 



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SnowFella View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SnowFella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 01:30
Hybrid focus is only really used on the A99 (for the AF-D setting) and on the A99ii (using the on sensor AF points).

I'm thinking the 4D focus comes from Sony's 4D description for the A77ii's focusing system as described in the official Sony blurb.
A77ii 4D Focusing system.

Now that does work regardless of what lens is mounted but some SSM lenses have upgraded motors and electronics that can cope better with the increased AF speeed.
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LowRyter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LowRyter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 02:42
Thanks, SF. The Tamron has the USD. Which is supposed to be silent (and fast) I think.
Sony A57 and A100 cameras. Sony 18-70 Kit, Minolta 70-210 Beer Can, Sigma 17-70 and Tamron 70-300 USD lenses
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amrep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote amrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 04:02
Originally posted by LAbernethy LAbernethy wrote:

The a68 is a jumped up a58 not a downgraded a77II.

Your claim that "The a68 is a jumped up a58 not a downgraded a77II" makes no sense. Sony in fact ditched the chassis design of the A58 in favor of a new plastic version of the larger A77/A77ii body design. This obviously to be able to put most of the electronics from the A77ii inside with minimal redesign. (Also visible on the outside - the A68 has an LCD on top). Sony then substituted A77ii parts with cheaper parts from the A58 and E-mount (the control wheel). They also left out the focusing clutch, metal mount face and some memory to reduce cost (similar to A58).

You seems biased against the A68.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DutchMM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 05:31
LowRyter
4D is Sony marketing talk. There is a booklet you can download to tell you all the marvellous ways in which you can make use of the A77ii's AF and tracking - you can download it here

My experience with the tracking is that it is fine, as long as you know reasonably well where to point the camera.   I had a torrid time this summer trying to predict where the swallows I was trying to capture would appear next, and had to use wide area AF to maximise my chances of a sharp shot. But I did get some with screw drive lenses, both the beercan and the Minolta 2.8/200 HS G.

I would expect it to do well with motor and bike racing.

One feature that can help manage the Sony wide tendency to AF on the closest object inside the focus zone is the A77ii's AF Range Control. Although this works best of all with 8 pin (D) lenses (you can see the distance being reported as you work the controls), it does also work with the older 5 pin ones. Both my beercan and 200 are from that era.

I have never owned a 68, and cannot contribute to the comparison war, just trying to pour a little data on the discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 13:38
Originally posted by amrep amrep wrote:

Originally posted by LAbernethy LAbernethy wrote:

The a68 is a jumped up a58 not a downgraded a77II.

Your claim that "The a68 is a jumped up a58 not a downgraded a77II" makes no sense. Sony in fact ditched the chassis design of the A58 in favor of a new plastic version of the larger A77/A77ii body design. This obviously to be able to put most of the electronics from the A77ii inside with minimal redesign. (Also visible on the outside - the A68 has an LCD on top). Sony then substituted A77ii parts with cheaper parts from the A58 and E-mount (the control wheel). They also left out the focusing clutch, metal mount face and some memory to reduce cost (similar to A58).

You seems biased against the A68.


I don't think I'm biased against the a68. Look at it this way: I could have orange drink with 10% real juice or for the same price or a few pennies more 100% real orange juice. I'm not against orange drink, I just don't understand "why" orange drink.

The true successor for the a57 is the a77. The a58 and by extension the a68 were the successors of the a5XX series.

The a68 is not a "Bad" camera, it's just not a good one with 10% real juice. It seems to me to be cobbled together with spare parts from the a58 and a65 for the most part. I don't think the sensor is the same as the a77II's either.

The OP's complaint of the a57 was build and EVF. I don't think the a68 will satisfy. The a580, a77 or a77II might.

Edited by LAbernethy - 27 October 2020 at 13:45
 



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QuietOC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 14:25
In my experience the sensor in the A68 is a bit better than the one in the A77II, especially at ISO 100 setting. The A65 had the worst sensor of all of these, but it was quick. The higher SLT frame rates are kinda misleading. The 5 FPS rate of the A68 and A58 work well. The special F3.5 high frame modes in all of these not so much. None have live view above the LO frame rate. It is too bad Sony didn't invest in A-mount. The A68 is a quite impressive entry-level camera. Maybe it should have called A38 or A48. It is too bad it uses the A77 style body.

Edited by QuietOC - 27 October 2020 at 14:33
Sony A7RIV NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4r MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II TLT ROKR MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 15:55
I compared the sensor on Photonstophotos and on DXO Mark, and the measurement of both show the A77m2 sensor to be better - however, the difference is small and I doubt it is a good reason to choose the one over the other.

The body is something personal. I like the A77-style body.

@QuietOC - as you are usually right: what do you mean by "None have live view above the LO frame rate"? My A77m2 behaves the same at the HI (8fps) setting through the viewfinder and the back screen. Or do you mean something else?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 16:32
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

Maybe it should have called A38 or A48. It is too bad it uses the A77 style body.


Maybe a Sony a3000(M)
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LowRyter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LowRyter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 18:12
Considering that the A-mount is obsolete. I think a nice A68 for $400 is a better way to go than an A77ii for $800.   I think the image and sensor quality appear nearly identical for both. I don't like a bunch of complex features that I can't use and I don't think my Sigma and Tamron lenses will focus any quicker on one over the other.

I know my A57 shoots more FPS than the A68 but considering the focus time, perhaps that's not so important?

Anyway, no hurry. I'll check around. If I am lucky to get a deal on an A77ii, I won't turn it down. Frankly, that little A57 has been quite the gem but there's no point getting another one given the tendency to break the card spring.
Sony A57 and A100 cameras. Sony 18-70 Kit, Minolta 70-210 Beer Can, Sigma 17-70 and Tamron 70-300 USD lenses
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LowRyter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LowRyter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 October 2020 at 18:30
Forget what I said. I just ordered an A77ii. 10k shutter count. Downside is overseas delivery. No lens.
Sony A57 and A100 cameras. Sony 18-70 Kit, Minolta 70-210 Beer Can, Sigma 17-70 and Tamron 70-300 USD lenses
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2020 at 13:21
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

The EVF of the A68 is not that great. Can you see it before you buy? Making sure it is not a disappointment.

The kit 18-55 is fine, but do not expect it to be better then your Sigma 17-70. Better use the spare money for a 16-50/2.8 if you want something better.

I think we need to be clear about what 'better' means. The only minus in the 18-55 SAM II is the small aperture, especially at the 55mm end. When you want to get narrow depth of filed this lens is simply not suitable, but neither (IMHO) are any of the f2.8 zooms. f2 is the worst aperture I accept for a standard lens for narrow DOF and f2.8 just doesn't always cut it (though sometimes it will). If you want narrow DOF, get a fast prime and keep the kit lens for everything else.

Because for everything else the lens is fine, and at the wide end there is no practical difference between f2.8 and f3.5.
The kit lens focuses amazingly well down to near-macro and is sharp there - in the near macro range it is as good as any non-specialist-macro lens I've ever tried.
And if you take jpegs with in-camera corrections turned on, you simply won't see any distortions worth correcting afterward at any FL or distance.

Re brightness, the real reason most of us used to demand fast lenses in film days was nothing to do with DOF but to keep the OVF screen bright and allow the micro-prism manual focus aid to work. With an OVF in dull light, a fast lens matters. With an EVF it doesn't matter in any light except near darkness (but I still get a brighter view through the 18-55 and A58 than via naked eye).

There's a lot of nonsense talked about how poor kit lenses are by those who only trust expensive equipment. SOme kit lenses are awful (Canon's cheaper ones) but the Sony 18-55 SAM II is sharper than many prime lenses, especially in the near field, which I've proved by testing.

Edited by Miranda F - 28 October 2020 at 13:25
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2020 at 14:10
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

The EVF of the A68 is not that great. Can you see it before you buy? Making sure it is not a disappointment.

The kit 18-55 is fine, but do not expect it to be better then your Sigma 17-70. Better use the spare money for a 16-50/2.8 if you want something better.

I think we need to be clear about what 'better' means. The only minus in the 18-55 SAM II is the small aperture, especially at the 55mm end. When you want to get narrow depth of filed this lens is simply not suitable, but neither (IMHO) are any of the f2.8 zooms. f2 is the worst aperture I accept for a standard lens for narrow DOF and f2.8 just doesn't always cut it (though sometimes it will). If you want narrow DOF, get a fast prime and keep the kit lens for everything else.

Because for everything else the lens is fine, and at the wide end there is no practical difference between f2.8 and f3.5.
The kit lens focuses amazingly well down to near-macro and is sharp there - in the near macro range it is as good as any non-specialist-macro lens I've ever tried.
And if you take jpegs with in-camera corrections turned on, you simply won't see any distortions worth correcting afterward at any FL or distance.

Re brightness, the real reason most of us used to demand fast lenses in film days was nothing to do with DOF but to keep the OVF screen bright and allow the micro-prism manual focus aid to work. With an OVF in dull light, a fast lens matters. With an EVF it doesn't matter in any light except near darkness (but I still get a brighter view through the 18-55 and A58 than via naked eye).

There's a lot of nonsense talked about how poor kit lenses are by those who only trust expensive equipment. SOme kit lenses are awful (Canon's cheaper ones) but the Sony 18-55 SAM II is sharper than many prime lenses, especially in the near field, which I've proved by testing.


Included in "better" I like to also consider weather sealing, an effective hood, durability (build quality). The Kit lenses from Sony have varied widely.
The 18-70 was not very good. The a700's Kit lens 16-105 is quite nice. I will agree the SAL18552 is not bad, and leave it at that.

Edited by LAbernethy - 28 October 2020 at 14:21
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LowRyter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LowRyter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2020 at 15:40
I'm pretty happy with the Sigma 17-70. It's f/2.8-4.5 and I can get reasonably shallow field with it.

I have Minolta 50 f/1.7. After getting the iris fixed a couple of times and stuck again, it's hid away somewhere. I might follow a video and fix it myself. Frankly, didn't get a lot of use out of it.

The Sigma works for 90% of the time walking around. The more it zooms, the depth of field is diminished despite having less aperture range.
Sony A57 and A100 cameras. Sony 18-70 Kit, Minolta 70-210 Beer Can, Sigma 17-70 and Tamron 70-300 USD lenses
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