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A700 metering problem?

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LAbernethy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2022 at 06:03
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:



I have the camera sitting next to another A700, both with the Sony 16-50 2.8 SSM attached.   Both dials are set on Auto. All other settings the same. The working camera chooses 1/30 2.8 and takes a normal photo. The other camera chooses 1/1000 f9 and takes a black photo. The setup is indoors with dim lighting. If I point the faulty camera outside directly into the sun, it chooses the same settings. the photo is much better, but still too dark.

If you set the "Bad" camera to "M" and take a photo at 1/30 2.8; what do you get?
Is the AEL button functioning freely and correctly (not stuck)?
In cleaning mode "Menu" "wrench" "3" fourth down (mirror lock up); look at the sensor with a flash light. What colour is it?

Edited by LAbernethy - 21 February 2022 at 06:11
 



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SnowFella View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SnowFella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2022 at 07:35
Quite a bit more than 3 stops there, more along the line of 8 stops unless my maths is off!
Indeed be interesting to know what a shot using the known working camera's settings looks like.
What does the view through the OVF look like, brighter or the same as the known good camera?
And does the AF work as it should?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hobgoblin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2022 at 09:12
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

I did notice the camera has version 4 firmware installed. I have no idea how current that is.


I seem to remember that an unoffical version of firmware upgrade was around years ago that sony later released. I didn't have the A700 long enough to worry about it.

Googled it and found this https://www.flickr.com/groups/sony_alpha/discuss/72157607219096556/

Maybe your v4 was the unofficial one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2022 at 16:26
The best thing to do is as Lee suggested - take a shot with the bad camera setting Aperture, Speed and ISO manually to match that of the good camera. I suspect you will get a good shot, which would confirm that it is the exposure metering that is off (7.5 stops - unless the two cameras had different ISO settings).

I don't have an A700, but I'm guessing you can do EV adjustment of */- 3 stops - it would be worth checking to see if this has an effect at +3 ie dark (4.5 stops off) but not black photos.

Interesting idea about the AEL button, that could do it if it got stuck in a very bright moment. Does the exposure reading in the viewfinder change as you move from lighter to darker or vice versa?

It is also worth swapping the lenses over just to make sure it isn't your lens reporting duff info to the exposure system (though 7.5 stops seems a lot of misreporting).

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Micholand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Micholand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2022 at 18:51
Originally posted by Hobgoblin Hobgoblin wrote:

Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

I did notice the camera has version 4 firmware installed. I have no idea how current that is.


I seem to remember that an unoffical version of firmware upgrade was around years ago that sony later released. I didn't have the A700 long enough to worry about it.

Googled it and found this https://www.flickr.com/groups/sony_alpha/discuss/72157607219096556/

Maybe your v4 was the unofficial one.
V4 is the last official FW version for a700; also see Sony Asia or Sony UK sites.

/Michael

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Hobgoblin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hobgoblin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2022 at 20:03
Originally posted by Micholand Micholand wrote:

Originally posted by Hobgoblin Hobgoblin wrote:

Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

I did notice the camera has version 4 firmware installed. I have no idea how current that is.


I seem to remember that an unoffical version of firmware upgrade was around years ago that sony later released. I didn't have the A700 long enough to worry about it.

Googled it and found this https://www.flickr.com/groups/sony_alpha/discuss/72157607219096556/

Maybe your v4 was the unofficial one.
V4 is the last official FW version for a700; also see Sony Asia or Sony UK sites.



Yes it is but before V4 was officially released a leaked version was circulating and it could be that some of these got corrupted as they were passed around between people.
 



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gigo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2022 at 23:45
It was so vague that I couldn't find the source, so I was silently watching.
I feel like I've seen a story like this.

---
Since the photometric element and the image sensor are different models (700 is so), there is an adjustment method in the service manual (I have not confirmed if it really exists) If an amateur does this without a jig or dedicated software, the adjustment will go wrong and it will be black. ..
You should not try the contents of the service manual easily.
---
ILCE-1, FE:14/24/35/STF/135/10400GM, 90M/24105/200600G+6, 1.4x/2xTC
ILCE-QX1, Full Sprctrum NEX-5R, E:2
LA-EA5, A:35G/100S/200M/500R,3x-1x +7, SIGMA MC-11 + Canon EF8-15 FishEye
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Post Options Post Options   Quote macronut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 00:41
Thanks everyone for the input. As of tonight this is my findings…

Set both cameras to A mode. The functioning A700 fired at 1/30 2.8, with a normal result. The faulty A700 fired at 1/8000 2.8, with a black photo, essentially the same comparison result as when I tested them in Auto. Also the shutter speed was flashing, so the camera recognized it was not the proper setting.

In M mode, with both cameras set to 1/30 2.8, the results are much closer, but not normal or acceptable. The functioning camera takes a perfect shot, while the other takes a recognizable, yet darker image. And after firing them side by side one after the other numerous times, I can definitely say that there is an audible difference. The faulty camera often has a squeaky sound, but not every shot.

Edited by macronut - 22 February 2022 at 03:44
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Post Options Post Options   Quote macronut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 02:20
Originally posted by Hobgoblin Hobgoblin wrote:

Originally posted by Micholand Micholand wrote:

Originally posted by Hobgoblin Hobgoblin wrote:

Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

I did notice the camera has version 4 firmware installed. I have no idea how current that is.


I seem to remember that an unoffical version of firmware upgrade was around years ago that sony later released. I didn't have the A700 long enough to worry about it.

Googled it and found this https://www.flickr.com/groups/sony_alpha/discuss/72157607219096556/

Maybe your v4 was the unofficial one.
V4 is the last official FW version for a700; also see Sony Asia or Sony UK sites.



Yes it is but before V4 was officially released a leaked version was circulating and it could be that some of these got corrupted as they were passed around between people.


The comparison camera has never had a firmware update. In fact, the donor to my experiment said that his A700 had never been fired up until a few weeks ago. I found a reset in the settings, but it didn’t reset the firmware to version 1
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Post Options Post Options   Quote macronut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 03:18
Originally posted by LAbernethy LAbernethy wrote:

Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:



I have the camera sitting next to another A700, both with the Sony 16-50 2.8 SSM attached.   Both dials are set on Auto. All other settings the same. The working camera chooses 1/30 2.8 and takes a normal photo. The other camera chooses 1/1000 f9 and takes a black photo. The setup is indoors with dim lighting. If I point the faulty camera outside directly into the sun, it chooses the same settings. the photo is much better, but still too dark.

If you set the "Bad" camera to "M" and take a photo at 1/30 2.8; what do you get?
Is the AEL button functioning freely and correctly (not stuck)?
In cleaning mode "Menu" "wrench" "3" fourth down (mirror lock up); look at the sensor with a flash light. What colour is it?


Both camera sensors appear the same greenish color and look clean. AEL button seems normal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote macronut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 03:22
Originally posted by Phil Wood Phil Wood wrote:

The best thing to do is as Lee suggested - take a shot with the bad camera setting Aperture, Speed and ISO manually to match that of the good camera. I suspect you will get a good shot, which would confirm that it is the exposure metering that is off (7.5 stops - unless the two cameras had different ISO settings).

I don't have an A700, but I'm guessing you can do EV adjustment of */- 3 stops - it would be worth checking to see if this has an effect at +3 ie dark (4.5 stops off) but not black photos.

Interesting idea about the AEL button, that could do it if it got stuck in a very bright moment. Does the exposure reading in the viewfinder change as you move from lighter to darker or vice versa?

It is also worth swapping the lenses over just to make sure it isn't your lens reporting duff info to the exposure system (though 7.5 stops seems a lot of misreporting).


As I move in and out of light and dark rooms, the shutter speed doesn’t change. The aperture goes back and forth from f9 and f8.

Adjusting EV +3 makes a world of difference. What would be a black photo, becomes pretty normal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote macronut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 03:38
Sitting here in a dimly lit room. Good camera is choosing a slow shutter speed and has the steady shot warning symbol ✋⚠️ Flashing, with or without the steady shot function turned on. Apparently this is the camera’s metering system alerting the user to a possible improper (slow) shutter speed for the scene.   The faulty camera is setting itself at 1000 and does not display this warning.

Edited by macronut - 22 February 2022 at 05:04
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Micholand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Micholand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 18:51
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

The comparison camera has never had a firmware update. In fact, the donor to my experiment said that his A700 had never been fired up until a few weeks ago. I found a reset in the settings, but it didn’t reset the firmware to version 1
If the camera was produced after V4 was officially released, then it came for free directly out of the factory
And a camera FW can't be downgraded...
/Michael

DWEs don't grow on trees! | Posting images&links FAQ
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Post Options Post Options   Quote macronut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2022 at 00:15
I assumed it could not be downgraded, but wasn’t certain.

The seller claims to be the original owner, and says he doesn’t remember ever updating the firmware. The serial numbers aren’t that far apart, but who knows.

Sooo… what the heck is wrong with this camera?
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