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A77ii SS/With Shutter IMPORTANT

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Fivepin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fivepin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A77ii SS/With Shutter IMPORTANT
    Posted: 28 January 2016 at 15:35
Ok for a long time I have said to many people that my A77ii does not have the sharpness that my A77 had. Sometimes I could notice it more than others and could not figure out why. So today I set up a test and spent 3 hours shooting different scenes with the following variables to compare my shots at 100%.
1. SS on & SS/W Shutter on
2. SS on & SS/W Shutter off
3. SS off & SS/W Shutter Off.

I picked 12 different scenes and used two lenses my Sony 28 -75 @ 75mm and my Tokina 300 F4.

My findings were as follows in all instances 24 test scenarios (between the two lenses) HANDHELD my camera is much sharper with SS on and SS/W shutter off.
I have had my camera with both on since I bought it because a stabilzed view while shooting long lenses seemed like a nice addition to me. I will add two of my test scenarios below 1920 x 1080 crops. These were uploaded to FB to be able to link here...so I hope you can see the differences. CAN ANYONE ELSE PLEASE VERIFY MY FINDINGS?????

The difference in some of the scenarios at low aperture was harder to tell but when I zoomed in 250% and really looked I could still see the differences. But if one were to try some shooting at F8 which the below samples were shot at, I would really appreciate some confirmation on this.

1. SS on SS/W shutter on


2. SS on SS/W shutter off


3. SS on SS/W shutter on


4. SS on SS/W shutter off

G.R.
 



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slo.Metallc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote slo.Metallc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2016 at 16:44
Hi Gary... can you also provide EXIF data.

In first example second image is a bit sharper for me, but in the second one I donít even know what is in focus. I donít think the second scene is appropriate to test sharpness, because scene is so busy that you canít be sure that camera always focused on the same thing / spot.

I will definitely test this out with my Tamron 150-600 during weekend and Iíll report my findings here, because I also have SS on and SS w/shutter on all the time, because it really helps to stabilize viewfinder when doing handheld macro.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fivepin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2016 at 17:39
Hey slo.Metallc In the second scene I was using the bricks on the chimney to test sharpness. In the files here you really cannot see the difference..on facebook you can a little...but in the originals it is very noticeable.
first shot EXIF iso 640 300mm f8 1/160th second
second shot EXIF : iso 400, 75mm f8 1/60th second

I used all different settings for each scene...apertures and tried to keep decent shutter speeds that were a little on the low side because i was also testing ss off as well...


G.R.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Basil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2016 at 20:06
I noticed something similar to this when I first got my A77ii. The pictures with SS/W Shutter off seemed just a little sharper than with it turned on. I also noticed that having it on drained my battery quicker, so I just turned it off and have left it off. Yes, I don't get a stabilized viewfinder, but then again, I never had one before so it doesn't really bother me. Is this one of those cases where too much technology actually hinders things?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2016 at 20:18
I leave SS/w shutter set to off .
With it on , correcting for some movement , the resulting shot is only going to be as good as the view in the EVF .
When enlarged , I am not impressed .

With it set to SS/with shutter off , but SS on exposure on , you have to work harder to keep the view in the EVF steady enough to see what your doing .
So when you take the shot , the resulting image will be sharper than what you were seeing in the EVF , rather than just the same .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fivepin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2016 at 20:47
Thanks for the replies guys. I only have 1 month left of warranty on this camera and wanted to make sure it was not just my camera. I believe this is a case of too much technology. I will be leaving the ss w/shutter off from now on. I don't need a stabilized view...I need sharp pictures.

Edited by Fivepin - 28 January 2016 at 20:50
G.R.
 



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Shelldrake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Shelldrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2016 at 21:03

Shortly after the a77M2 came out one of the subjects that was raised
was this very issue.

The consensus of opinion at the time was to leave it off.
The main objection was that SSS was running continuously for what could
be a reasonably protracted period while composing or recomposing.
That then raised concerns valid or otherwise; of wear and heating.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote coyote1086 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2016 at 23:32
I had the A77ii for a year and I never know such option.
Thanks guys, I'll go home and check about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote happyjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2016 at 02:19
Well, this may explain a lot of what has been happening with some of my shots.
Strange that Sony put it on a different page in the menu instead of al the SS choices together.

Gary Friedman in his comprehensive manual also suggests having it off.

Reading through his book again, I think I'll assign the C button to SSS on/off - saves going in to the menu each time when using tripod - and then forgetting to turn SSS back on for handheld. ( He uses the C button for raw+jpeg/extrafine)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote WestCoastCannuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2016 at 02:55
Originally posted by Shelldrake Shelldrake wrote:


Shortly after the a77M2 came out one of the subjects that was raised
was this very issue.

The consensus of opinion at the time was to leave it off.
The main objection was that SSS was running continuously for what could
be a reasonably protracted period while composing or recomposing.
That then raised concerns valid or otherwise; of wear and heating.


I remember that... and I agreed with it. Still do. I played with it for a couple of hours when first getting the camera and really like it, but because of the concerns you listed I shut it off and have left it off. Coming from the A700 and A99 I am used to not having it anyway.   BUT.... I always thought the performance and function of the SS was the same regardless of setting - apparently NOT!


Originally posted by happyjack happyjack wrote:

Well, this may explain a lot of what has been happening with some of my shots.
Strange that Sony put it on a different page in the menu instead of al the SS choices together.
Gary Friedman in his comprehensive manual also suggests having it off.
Reading through his book again, I think I'll assign the C button to SSS on/off - saves going in to the menu each time when using tripod - and then forgetting to turn SSS back on for handheld. ( He uses the C button for raw+jpeg/extrafine)


I did not know that was possible! I will have to do that as well. I am constantly diving through menus and cursing the lack of the hard switch from my trusty A700. Will make my life much easier. I use my 400mm freehand all the time, and mostly leave it off for BIF shots, but then I end up using a higher shutter speed and ISO than necessary (because of lack of SS) when firing off a still in between waiting for the next "flyby". THANKS!
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Shelldrake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Shelldrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2016 at 03:07

I just hope that there isn't a misinterpretation starting to arise here.

So just for certainty's sake what was and is being recommended is:
1. Turn off and leave off, SS with Shutter.
2. But turn on and leave on, SS with Release.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote happyjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2016 at 04:03
Shelldrake: SS with release:
From Friedmans book:
TIP: The ownerís manual says that SteadyShot should be turned off when the camera is mounted on a tripod. This is because control systems are inherently imperfect, and if there is no movement to counteract, then the actuators will likely react to some phantom noise coming from the pitch and yaw sensors, and otherwise move the sensor at times when it shouldnít. This rule only applies to rock-solid, really good tripods, though. If you happen to own a cheapie tripod and use it with the center column all the way up and itís a windy day, your image might just benefit a little by having it on. To be safe, try it both ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote anthny580 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2016 at 05:40
Thanks for posting this. I happen to be researching the 80-200 f2.8 G lens for possible purchase and found this youtube video, the narrator at around 16:00 starts discussing issues with image stabilization (lacking sharpness and micro-contrast). It has me a little concerned. I'm wondering if he really just needs to turn off SS with shutter instead of turning SS off altogether? I will probably try to purchase the lens and see how it goes, it gets very high rating so I'm hoping there are no stabilization compatibility issues with the a77ii...

a77ii 80-200g youtube video
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Shelldrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2016 at 05:53

The point that is trying to be made here is not when or where SS should or should not be used;
but rather which SS should be used and what the difference between them is.

Firstly SS with shutter; is a continuous SS which remains on, for the entire period of any half shutter.
Secondly SS with release; is single micro burst of SS only when the shutter is released.

They are two entirely different camera settings.




Edited by Shelldrake - 29 January 2016 at 13:43
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