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A900/A850 with >65k shutter actuations - anyone?

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Guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 00:05
Well, I only implemented the algorithm described by Micholand
And with my 850, it checks out, the numbers are consistent over my whole period of ownership.
Perhaps you are missing something? (like 2856 files? )
Do you have an earlier file somewhere (below number 2856?)
I am interested in the result.
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Dave_Anderson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave_Anderson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 00:09
The number of actuations is no less than the file number for that file, I'm pretty sure of that. I bought the camera new. I would have screamed bloody murder if it came out of the box and the first pic was ~2,800!

I can take a look when I get home from work.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote smoljan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 00:14
I have created ExifTool output from ARW files created with a few different cameras.
Shutter count calculation using tags Sony_FocusInfo_0x0846, Sony_FocusInfo_0x0847 and Sony_FocusInfo_0x0848 is accurate on A390 and A900, not on A100, A350, A560, A580 and A700.
So I guess different ARW revisions use different tags or methods to store count info.
I have a feeling this calc would work for A230, A330, A380, A390, A850, A900 and possibly A290.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kirby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 00:31
Originally posted by Guy Guy wrote:

A tool is available:
http://tools.science.si/index.php
Please don't abuse it, the CPU is not big, and upload bandwith is only 20Mbps.


Tried one ARW file. Got the same result I got myself (36,418). Uploaded from my computer. Filename: 2013-04-04_FleursDuMort_Studio_13 of 13_DSC00013.ARW

Thanks   

It should work with any size JPG made from the same original, no? I will try with some heavily-compressed JPGs and see what I get. (Trying to overcome the limitations of the file transfer speed.)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote glassesofwater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 00:43
Originally posted by Dave_Anderson Dave_Anderson wrote:

I was thinking of making a tool but you beat me to it. :)

However, it gives an incorrect count:

Total shutter count for file DSC07922.ARW: 5066

I pointed it to this file, which was at least the 7922nd actuation: File

My a77 is on the DCIM folder number 102, but still, I haven't got past my first 10k clicks - It started where my a700 left....so, maybe your card was used in another camera?

Btw, this is a nice discovery. Shame it doesn't work with the a700

Edited by glassesofwater - 16 April 2013 at 00:47
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Post Options Post Options   Quote greek_alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 01:20
Originally posted by Dave_Anderson Dave_Anderson wrote:

The number of actuations is no less than the file number for that file, I'm pretty sure of that. I bought the camera new. I would have screamed bloody murder if it came out of the box and the first pic was ~2,800!

I can take a look when I get home from work.


If I remember corectly, when you put an unformated memory card in your camera the name of the files continue from the last on the card. That may have screwd up the numbering in your camera.
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Dave_Anderson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dave_Anderson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 04:49
Originally posted by greek_alpha greek_alpha wrote:

Originally posted by Dave_Anderson Dave_Anderson wrote:

The number of actuations is no less than the file number for that file, I'm pretty sure of that. I bought the camera new. I would have screamed bloody murder if it came out of the box and the first pic was ~2,800!

I can take a look when I get home from work.


If I remember corectly, when you put an unformated memory card in your camera the name of the files continue from the last on the card. That may have screwd up the numbering in your camera.

Originally posted by greek_alpha greek_alpha wrote:

Originally posted by Dave_Anderson Dave_Anderson wrote:

The number of actuations is no less than the file number for that file, I'm pretty sure of that. I bought the camera new. I would have screamed bloody murder if it came out of the box and the first pic was ~2,800!

I can take a look when I get home from work.


If I remember corectly, when you put an unformated memory card in your camera the name of the files continue from the last on the card. That may have screwd up the numbering in your camera.


I am aware of this. I did reset the number intentionally then set it back to the correct number at one time just to play with this "feature".

More data points:

The very first photo I took out of the box new was DSC00018. That one shows a count of 21. I have some other photos around 00047-00057 that show zero, not sure what's going on there.

Here is where it gets interesting...

DSC03064.ARW, last pic taken with a failed shutter, reports 1271 actuations.

DSC03082.ARW, first pic taken after the shutter was replaced, reports 87 actuations.

So apparently they reset it when replacing the shutter, but that 1271 number makes no sense. Some of the other differences may be accounted for depending on whether actuations for "Intelligent Preview" count toward the total, but I'm going to dig a bit deeper on this.
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Guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 06:36
Originally posted by Kirby Kirby wrote:

Tried one ARW file. Got the same result I got myself (36,418). Uploaded from my computer. Filename: 2013-04-04_FleursDuMort_Studio_13 of 13_DSC00013.ARW

Thanks   

It should work with any size JPG made from the same original, no? I will try with some heavily-compressed JPGs and see what I get. (Trying to overcome the limitations of the file transfer speed.)

Well, with my limited testing, any modification of the original JPEG/ARW will garble the data (at least with GIMP). I will try an export from LR once I get the chance.
Although you really only need to try it only once, to see where you stand .


@Dave_Anderson:
It makes sense that the counter was reset when the shutter was replaced, but the prior numbers still don't make sense I guess. It appears that the German colleagues who made the discovery are on the right track!


P.S.: I will try to add support for cameras for which I have original JPGs/RAWs (A500,A700,A55,A77,A99,maybe also KM5D and KM7D).
I know that not the same fields are used, but I now have the idea of what to search for . I have tried finding the shutter count in exif a couple of times in the past, but the approach was not correct.
I'll make updates if (and when) I discover more.

Regards,
Borut
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tomiZG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 09:45
Originally posted by Guy Guy wrote:

A tool is available:
http://tools.science.si/index.php
Please don't abuse it, the CPU is not big, and upload bandwith is only 20Mbps.


Hvala, Borute!

This is what it gave me;

| | | | Sony_FocusInfo_0x0846 = 79
| | | | Sony_FocusInfo_0x0847 = 16
| | | | Sony_FocusInfo_0x0848 = 1
(65536 * 1) + (256 * 16) + 79 = 69711
Total shutter count for file DSC04264.ARW: 69711

So there are a900's out there with more than 70k actuations
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Guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 11:38
Nema problema !

Ok, I have made some updates to the tools.
I have now added support for the A99 and A55.
Support for A500, A700 and A77 is coming soon!
If anyone wishes to help with other models, send me a private message here!

Some interesting observations:
1) The counter is the amount of shutter actuations BEFORE the picture was taken.
2) Panoramas in the A55 make between 33 and 50!! actuations for a single image.
3) On SLTs there is no difference between electronic first curtain or not (so it's always counted as one actuation even if the curtain has to go up/down twice)

This is all I have so far.

Regards,
Borut
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Post Options Post Options   Quote psychni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 16:05
Great Man! It is working perfectly!
I suppose hat if you ever (by the known trick) change the numbering sequence the total click number still is REAL..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonas A-R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 16:12
Many many thanks to all involved.
How can Sony be so braindead as to not allow this
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Post Options Post Options   Quote romke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 17:11
somehow i cannot yet get a figure for the a900 or a99.

are there any restrictions on file renaming or the format the file needs to be uploaded or linked to by supplying a URL?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 17:44
Originally posted by psychni psychni wrote:

I suppose hat if you ever (by the known trick) change the numbering sequence the total click number still is REAL..

Yes, it ignores that. That is the whole point of maintaining an independent counter.
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