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A99 wl flash delay

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MartyMoose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MartyMoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2013 at 17:33
Yes the 58's controller/body is very good. I just wish the flashhead swiveled enabling the IR sensor to be aimed at me while the flash head is swiveled at the subject. Like when putting the flash on a stand with umbrella during wireless.
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analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2013 at 23:32
Originally posted by michelb michelb wrote:

Wondering why A900 does not do the same in the same set-up configuration.
The F20 was designed for the A900. When F20 was released the A900 was the only body on which it would serve as a wireless trigger. So no surprise that the A900 f20 combination works well. The question is how did the process get broken for A99?     
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analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2013 at 23:41
Originally posted by IanL IanL wrote:

...the adapter, which is just plastic and metal conductors - nothing which could cause delay.
Do we know that for sure? I haven't read anything either way. Sony might have changed the communication protocol for the multifunction interface shoe, since it handles more functions than just flash. If so there would be a "chip" in the adapter to translate.
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analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2013 at 23:42
What happens when the F60 is placed on the A900, using the reverse direction adapter?
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kiklop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 00:17
Originally posted by analytical analytical wrote:

The question is how did the process get broken for A99?
It is like.no.other consistency, that's how
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Post Options Post Options   Quote matthiaspaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 00:38
Originally posted by analytical analytical wrote:

Originally posted by IanL IanL wrote:

...the adapter, which is just plastic and metal conductors - nothing which could cause delay.
Do we know that for sure? I haven't read anything either way. Sony might have changed the communication protocol for the multifunction interface shoe, since it handles more functions than just flash. If so there would be a "chip" in the adapter to translate.

At most there could be some passive parts inside the ADP-AMA and ADP-MAA adapters (series resistors or coils, ESD protection, etc.), but it is unlikely given the costs. Also, the adapters do not depend on a power supply. F1 is somewhat special as the MIS shoe has two kinds of F1 signals (named F1# and ISO_SHOE_X below). The F2, F3 and GND signals seem to be just passed through and with the protocol not changed (or at least compatible), as even an old Minolta Program Flash 4000 AF mounted via ADP-MAA + FS-1100 on a SLT-A99 will work (flash distance display, zoom reflector, flash ready signal and X-sync speed enforcement) except for TTL-OTF.

http://www.mi-fo.de/forum/index.php?showtopic=32344&view=findpost&p=292021 ff.
http://www.mi-fo.de/forum/index.php?showtopic=32700&view=findpost&p=292451 ff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_Interface_Shoe

MIS    ADP-MAA    iISO

23 GND
--
1   ID3
2   ID2
3   ID1
4   (MIC_GND)
5   
6   
7   REG_GND --------- GND
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15 REG_GND ----- GND
16
17
18 F3 ---------- F3
19 F2 ---------- F2
20 F1#
21 (PGND)
--
22 ISO_SHOE_X -- F1
--
24 GND

Open questions:

- ID-pin interface could be digital (pull to GND or VCC) or analog.
- How does a flash with MIS shoe detect if it is mounted on camera (for ADI) or via cable (no ADI) or not at all (wireless)? Old flashes and iISO shoes used a small switch and hole in the shoe, new flashes must use some kind of electrical loop, possibly distinguishing between the several GNDs or IDs.
- Are the 4 wires of the cable system directly electrically connected to the corresponding contacts of the MIS hotshoe, or are they only logically the same?

Greetings,

Matthias

Edited by matthiaspaul - 03 January 2013 at 21:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 02:00
Originally posted by Peekayoh Peekayoh wrote:

The pocket wizards are just dumb triggers with Sony so no delay.


Originally posted by g^2 g^2 wrote:

Yeah, I've been using PCB CyberSyncs...no delay.


Quantum IVi with adapter DID have delay on NEX-7, all manual mode... But not as much as F20am manual and TTL flash, which performed identical to the Friedman tests we see.

I've yet to hear anyone confirm a99/a77 + F20am wireless delay with full manual camera, and full manual flash. Could it be the pre-flash automation is causing delay? F20am on a900 has longer delay triggering TTL flash than manual flash... just because of the pre-flash.

I really don't care about the TTL at all. But I can't deal with wireless delay for manual cam and manual flash.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vbpholaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 05:44
The work-around for the delay when using manual flash, if it exists, is to use radio triggers instead of the flash's infrared system. That would also provide more flexibility in locating the remote flashes. Of course, it's also an additional expenditure, though it's not necessarily a huge one. The "dumb" Phottix radio triggers for the Sony mount come as a kit with two (or three) receivers and a transmitter for something in the area of $100 as I recall. Built better than the less expensive Chinese options available on eBay.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 06:27
Just a heads-up that if you use generic flashes/generic radio triggers/cables in order to avoid any wireless delays you will instead encounter the confirmed A99 bug whereby sync speed for full coverage is reduced to 1/200 second.
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Photosopher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 07:54
That just opposite of a900. HSS turned off, F56AM is limited to 1/200th. Camera won't even set past that. But with Norman 200C, Sunpak 622, 422, Ringflash all plugged into PC port, or adapted from iISO, or RS from Quantum IVi... all those sync at 1/250th just fine. Black bar doesn't show until 1/320th.

Shame we can't get back the 1/300th native sync from Mino 9 and 9xi... and the 1/12000th SS max as well. Heaven forbid we'd return to getting full electronic flash sync at 1/4000th speed without HSS... like the KM A2. They brought back the EVF... maybe they'll bring back full sync shutter one day too. Sometimes I wonder if our cameras are evolving, or devolving.
_______

Hopefully someone can test if F20AM delay with a99 is still apparent in full manual camera and manual remote flash too. Would like to know if the delay is caused by the TTL preflash. Remember to turn auto ISO off. I'd even like to know how F20AM flash works standalone on a99. Does it delay with direct mount TTL... or just as a wireless trigger?

Edited by Photosopher - 02 January 2013 at 07:59
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IanL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote IanL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 08:32
Originally posted by matthiaspaul matthiaspaul wrote:

...
- How does a flash with MIS shoe detect if it is mounted on camera (for ADI) or via cable (no ADI) or not at all (wireless)?


Not at all - I suggest that case would be easily identified by no handshake on F2 and F3 when powered up.
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Quote FarmerDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 08:40
Engage FEL (c button front top left) and the wireless shots after that have NO delay. When scene changes, press play or same FEL button once to unlock then FEL again to lock and side step wireless TTL delay issue for now.
FEL=NO wireless delay.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 08:43
Originally posted by FarmerDave FarmerDave wrote:

FEL=NO wireless delay.


Sounds good... Can you confirm the parameters this applies to? Pre-Flash TTL? ADI?

What about all manual camera and all manual remote flash and manual iso? Does FEL still need pressing to overcome delay? With manual everything, FEL is kind of mute. Can FEL be set to toggle on off like AEL can?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote matthiaspaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 10:00
Originally posted by IanL IanL wrote:

Originally posted by matthiaspaul matthiaspaul wrote:

...
- How does a flash with MIS shoe detect if it is mounted on camera (for ADI) or via cable (no ADI) or not at all (wireless)?


Not at all - I suggest that case would be easily identified by no handshake on F2 and F3 when powered up.

Detecting wireless might work this way, but how does the flash detect if it is mounted on the camera or via cable system? ADI is only possible, if the camera is mounted on the camera itself, because otherwise the distance flash-subject, which is a prerequisite for ADI to work, is not known. The iISO flashes use a small switch in the flash's foot, which is pressed when mounted in the camera's hotshoe, but not pressed when mounted via OS-1100 / FA-CS1AM, because of a small hole in the mount adapter. Example:

HVL-F60M mounted on SLT-A99 will allow ADI, whereas a HVL-F60M connected via ADP-MAA + OC-1100 / FA-CC1AM must not and should not allow for ADI (I cannot test this as I don't own a SLT-A99 or HVL-F60M).

Greetings,

Matthias
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