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a99II 4K overheating solved.

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Photosopher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 13:32
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:


I don't have the camera and haven't seen this issue, so I can only speak from my knowledge of basic Physics, but yes.


I'm getting that impression. When using the vertical battery grip, the batteries never get hot. But the dummy battery smokestack is burning hot on the back side. It seems to take on the heat, and I imagine that smokestack could be refit with a heat sink or cooling path for fan.

I just ordered a cheap aftermarket vertical battery grip. I'm going to tinker with removing the smokestak and modifying a fan inside. Should be able to cut a hole anywhere on the right side of the grip for ventilation.

Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

I agree that in theory the battery could be getting hot because of the current it is supplying, but in this application virtually *all* of the power it produces is being used by the camera (not sent elsewhere) and all of this power turns to heat in the camera. This is a point that poeple sometimes forget!*

Given that the internal resistance of prismatic lipo batteries is very low (at least when they are not nearly empty), the heat generation inside the battery will be much less than that in the camera.


I think this is the case. When using the external AC adapter plugged into the left side of a99II, without any battery installed, the inside of the battery chamber gets really hot on the back side and inner left side. I think this is heating up the battery, rather than the other way around.

Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:


If the camera is overheating then you need to cool it. You can do this by bolting it to a heatsink or putting heat pipes into it or blowing air over it (the easiest and cheapest way) but if you're generating a lot of heat and don;t like the temeprature rise, then you need to extract the heat more effectively.


Thank you. I don't think I can affix a heat sink to the metal sleeve inside of the battery compartment without permanently modifying the camera. So the smokestack of the vertical battery grip could be removed for air flow, or the smokestack could be converted to a heat sink. But I don't know enough about how heat sinks work. Do they have to be touching the metal with thermal paste? If so, then I'd rather just remove it and push a path of airflow through there, venting from the bottom or side of the vertical battery grip.

Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

*I had endless arguments with my wife about turning off the lights or using CF bulbs instead of old incandescent ones. The filament bulbs may have been only 20% efficient at generating light but they were 100% efficient at generating heat. And when you have electric heating with a thermostat, it doesn't really make much difference whether the heat is produced from a fire or a light bulb! But then I am convinced that 90% of the population don't understand the operation of a simple thermostat.


Ha ha I remember the old studio cold mornings we'd get the 5K tungsten cans turned on as fast as we could. Now we just turn the Sony's on.
 



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tqlla View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tqlla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 13:49
Originally posted by Photosopher Photosopher wrote:

Originally posted by tqlla tqlla wrote:


Wow sounds like great news. I will have to save up for an atomos, just to play around with controlling aperture while shooting video.


Don't need Atomos for that. Unlike EMount... AMount provides clickless aperture control on every lens. Just set the front multi controller for AV and clickless. Works in Manual and Aperture Priority modes. Must use manual focus. Atomos doesn't change that.


bummer.   I thought you were saying it could be changed to AF after starting in MF in one of those PASM modes.

Ah well.
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Photosopher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 13:59
Originally posted by tqlla tqlla wrote:

bummer.   I thought you were saying it could be changed to AF after starting in MF in one of those PASM modes.


It can. But changing from MF to AF (in any mode) during a clip will cause camera to default to the f3.5 limitation P Mode. Changing back to MF will revert back to previous Mode... Standard a99II operation does not allow this.

Workaround...

Start clip MF aperture priority f3.5. Then switching to AF won't change DOF. Adjust exposure with EV+/-, or variable ND.

Special effect...
The f3.5 AF limitation is indeed limiting. But it provides for a special effect that other cams cannot provide.

Start clip in manual exposure manual focus f22. Hit AF/MF button and immediately leap from f22 to f3.5. The instant DOF change cannot be easily or similarly reproduced by other cameras or editing.

Can also do it reverse, starting clip at f1.4, then instantly jump to f3.5.

Edited by Photosopher - 12 July 2018 at 14:03
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 17:04
Originally posted by Photosopher Photosopher wrote:

I don't think I can affix a heat sink to the metal sleeve inside of the battery compartment without permanently modifying the camera. So the smokestack of the vertical battery grip could be removed for air flow, or the smokestack could be converted to a heat sink. But I don't know enough about how heat sinks work. Do they have to be touching the metal with thermal paste? If so, then I'd rather just remove it and push a path of airflow through there, venting from the bottom or side of the vertical battery grip.


The easiest place to fix a heatsink is the tripod socket, but on a plastic camera there may not be much thermal conduction there form the heat source.

If the inside of the battery compartment is getting hot, that sounds a good palce to put a heat sink. Suggestions include:

- A very small fan blowing air down one side of the battery compartment and out the other.

- a dummy battery filled with water (high heat capacity, good circulation) or aluminium (reasonable heat capacity, good conduction, cheap and easily machined)

- and ally bracket or machined piece which fits into the battery compartment, maybe with thermal paste, and conducts the heat to an external plate

- a heat pipe. See wikipedia. These are usually a bit like drinking straws but bendable, and work a bit like refridgerators. Heat one end, cool the other. Ideally, glue one end into a dummy battery and the other onto a cold plate fixed to the tripod mount. You may be able to recycle one from an old laptop
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2018 at 19:41
Good advice all around. I appreciate your thoughts on this very much.

I have a few parts on order to construct a modified vertical battery grip. I want to put a fan in it, and power from NPF970 battery at 8800mAh. The heat pipe looks most interesting. Doing more research on that, thank you.

I'm also considering replacing the back side of the battery grip smokestack with a combo heat sink/air flow chamber. I think a vice, dremel, and small block of copper is all I need to fashion a primitive air flow chamber that sits on the back of the battery compartment. One side vents to intake air from hole cut in battery grip, and the other side exhausts through fan.

Any recommendations on small efficient computer fan that can run cheap on the NPF970 7.4V...?

Perhaps a laptop fan?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kefkafloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2018 at 02:35
Originally posted by Photosopher Photosopher wrote:


That said, the second I install, and engage SD card recording alongside HDMI recording, the a99II goes back to its hot running overheating ways. Too bad, because my a7RIII can record 4K HDMI externally, and on both SD cards for three recording copies, without shutting down from overheat. This is not because it runs cooler. a7RIII gets very very hot. Perhaps hotter than a99II. But Sony gave the a7RIII a less critical overheating plan. Wish they give it to a99II as well.


So to clarify, you are recording just to the Atomos with no SD cards in the camera at all?

I had suggested external recorders ages ago as a possible solution and someone had said it didn't help, but it didn't occur to me to remove the SD cards.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Swede101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2018 at 03:25
Originally posted by Photosopher Photosopher wrote:

---
One side vents to intake air from hole cut in battery grip, and the other side exhausts through fan.
---

I'll suggest you to do the opposite. Expect to get MUCH higher cooling efficiency by putting the fan at the inlet, creating PRESSURE, than putting it at the outlet, sucking out air through the restricted air channel.

And many thanks for your always interesting posts, and for sharing your joy and passion with using SLT cameras! I myself haven't advanced to more than A77 II yet, but I really like that camera, suits my type of shooting perfectly.

And the ongoing electronic technology development will elevate the capacity/potential of future A-mount cameras in ways that will never be possible with OVF/DSLR cameras, The SLT concept is a much bigger revolution than most people think - it was certainly not just an unsignificant paranthesis until Sony had time to develop the E-mount system as many assert. The SLT cameras actually came to early in time, so I like to see an A77 H some day. :-)



Edited by Swede101 - 16 July 2018 at 03:32
Gunnar

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2018 at 19:21
Originally posted by kefkafloyd kefkafloyd wrote:

So to clarify, you are recording just to the Atomos with no SD cards in the camera at all?


That is correct. I could leave the cards in the camera with door closed. But there is a noticeable heat build up. Taking cards out and leaving door open makes camera run cooler. This is for my own personal satisfaction, and not necessary. As long as the camera is recording directly out to HDMI, with no card recording, I haven't seen the overheat warning, regardless if cards are installed with door open or closed.

Originally posted by kefkafloyd kefkafloyd wrote:

I had suggested external recorders ages ago as a possible solution and someone had said it didn't help, but it didn't occur to me to remove the SD cards.


You may have been the one to send me down that rabbit hole, with good suggestion. Someone on DPR commented that a99II still overheat with Atomos, but they never gave any details. I've discovered happy solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Photosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2018 at 19:27
Originally posted by Swede101 Swede101 wrote:


I'll suggest you to do the opposite. Expect to get MUCH higher cooling efficiency by putting the fan at the inlet, creating PRESSURE, than putting it at the outlet, sucking out air through the restricted air channel.


Will do. I have no knowledge of thermodynamics.

Found these fans less than one inch diameter for RC race cars. They should be ready at 7.4V. I have no idea how loud they are.

This might work. Running a99II from AC plug with battery door open and fan underneath makes thermal warning go away in twenty seconds. Stock camera gets 5-10 minutes before warning or shutdown. Turn fan on and the warning goes away very quickly, and camera never shuts down, writing 4K to two cards, all without Atomos.

I received the vertical battery grip yesterday. Still waiting on the NPF battery adapter, and haven't decided on fans yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kefkafloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2018 at 21:33
Originally posted by Photosopher Photosopher wrote:

That is correct. I could leave the cards in the camera with door closed. But there is a noticeable heat build up. Taking cards out and leaving door open makes camera run cooler. This is for my own personal satisfaction, and not necessary. As long as the camera is recording directly out to HDMI, with no card recording, I haven't seen the overheat warning, regardless if cards are installed with door open or closed.

You may have been the one to send me down that rabbit hole, with good suggestion. Someone on DPR commented that a99II still overheat with Atomos, but they never gave any details. I've discovered happy solution.


Yes, that was on DPR forums ages ago. Still, I will notch another one in my belt for being right in the end.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Swede101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2018 at 23:45
Haha! Congratulations!

Wisdom is for the eternity :-)

Gunnar

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20/2,8; 50/1,7 Old; 50/1,8; 28-80 (Unused); 28-80 D; 28-105 RS; 135/2,8; 500/8 Reflex; Tamron 90/2,8 Macro 1:1 (V2); 5600HS(D)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote linton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2020 at 16:35
I know this is an old topic but I've just found this due to my A99II overheating in 4K recording after just 10mins or so. Thanks to this thread I now now what to do - So thank you to all involved in this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote linton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2020 at 22:31
I've managed to get 1hr 23mins of non stop 4K recording with no over heating icon, infact the A99II was barely warm. I'm well happy, although I'm still going to get me an Atomos recorder at some point
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