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Alpha/Maxxum/Dynax9 / 5400hs Remote question

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flyingzebra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Alpha/Maxxum/Dynax9 / 5400hs Remote question
    Posted: 21 July 2024 at 19:50

Please excuse the choice of forums for this question
Having looked in Lighting and here in Film Cameras, I thought it might be more appropriate here considering the unique ‘wireless’ relationship between the α9 and the 5400hs

With Dynax/α/Maxxum 9 and the 5400hs flash - shooting indoors at a music performance with the optical remote mode —

How well does the camera segregate the command to the flash unit while in the presence of other camera flashes firing in the field of view?

For instance, if there are other photographers running the modern P-TTL (and anything else for that matter), will the α9/5400hs generally ignore the other flashguns and only work within their own “conversation”..?

Or is it more likely that other random flash activity will (randomly) trigger a tethered 5400hs flashgun?

Edited by Flyingzebra - 22 July 2024 at 17:38
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2024 at 20:58
Very unlikely since the systems from other manufacturers should have different protocols to wake/trigger and stop the flash commands. It is actually the infrared light from these flashes that get recognized as WL commands and patent infringement lawsuits would have been issued to prevent the use of this in the same way as the original Minolta system. That is probably why it took Canikon around 10 years to catch up to the Minolta WL TTL system.

The only potential conflict would be if another photographer had a set-up from another Minolta camera around you and used the same channel as you. This is why Minolta made available 4 channels to choose from on all of its WL compatible flash units and bodies.
Michel B
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flyingzebra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2024 at 21:14
Thanks for the reply Michel

This is my assumption - and hopefully this will work out in practice

Have you used this combination, or a similar combination of equipment inside a poorly lit venue?

I also wonder how well the IR ‘conversation’ propagates in that kind of environment

I’m also interested to see how well/fast the AF assist works for this kind of situation

Hopefully soon I’ll find out
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Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2024 at 21:47
I have used these Minolta (and Sony) in numerous occasions. On poorly lit situations, the commands are very reliable even if the remote flash is somewhat hidden from the body or control flash but as long as the WL flash can see some of the IR light from the control unit, it works. I even tried it in sunlight in a situation, i was afraid the control lights would not be well seen by the WL units ( 8 feet away and way up in the air on a 8 ft light stand) and it did not fail. So the only thing to worry about is ensuring the WL flash red receptor window(same window as the AF illuminator) is aimed towards the control unit so having a flash that can both tilt and bounce is the way to go to ensure proper positioning of the flash.

The AF illuminator from the flash is now inactive when a flash is in WL mode since this is generating a pattern (a bit like a bar code) that the AF sensors use to figure the distance the lens has to move its focusing mechanism to ensure proper AF distance and in WL the pattern would be misinterpreted by the AF sensors since the pattern would reflect the flash to subject distance which in such a case would be different from the body to subject distance.. On the Maxxum 9, there is an AF illuminator on the body and this would be used by the body as the AF illuminator when using WL flash.

Michel B
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flyingzebra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2024 at 23:34
The camera-to-flashgun path is the one I ponder the most, as I’d likely want the flash off to the side (at my 3:00 position for instance) with the subject at my 11:30-12:30 position

The IR illuminator is the small round emitter on the pop-up flash - I could use a mirror or reflector to get the
Message to the flashgun - or is it sufficient to just send the IR light from the camera to the subject, and the IR on the subject would be enough to send the message to the flashgun..?

I guess it depends…
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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 00:09
For information, tips etc and a general how it works , you need to read this article by Gary Friedman .

https://www.friedmanarchives.com/wireless-flash-article/

It pretty much explains everything you need to know about the Sony/Minolta wireless flash system .

Regarding communication between camera and off camera flash , if your only using one flash , you can always mount a compatible flash on the camera body with its head pointed towards your second flash ( off camera) .
The body of the off camera flash would point towards the camera, with its head pointed towards the subject .
I've never had a problem with triggering the off camera flash though .
Light bounces , including the infrared signal .
So as long as the distance between camera, flash and subject isn't too great , you shouldn't have a problem.
see my photostream on flickr;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flyingzebra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 00:38
Thanks Neil

I’ll look at that article

*moments pass*

…and I’ve gotten through that article…


Great explanation and I’m going to have to read it again.

It sounds like for wireless HSS I’d need the 5600 - - must read again and dig a little deeper before I dive into this in practice on film

Edited by Flyingzebra - 22 July 2024 at 01:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 02:02
You can also read this: WL set-ups

If the 5600HS(D) flash has its flash head moved in any other position than straight ahead (like for direct flash on camera) it loses its ability to fire in HSS. If you place the WL fast with the head sideways on its body to get the IR receiver towards the body, you will lose HSS.

Why would you want to use HSS in a dark environment anyways ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flyingzebra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 02:36
Originally posted by michelb michelb wrote:


Why would you want to use HSS in a dark environment anyways ?


Fast action hardcore music performances, roller derby, nighttime extreme sports like ramp/pool skateboarding and freestyle bicycle etc

Fast things in the dark
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Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 02:49
HSS only works at short distances because the flash power is spread over the whole exposure time to cover the whole frame. It's like shooting multiple flashes in a row so that the slit of the shutter curtains receive an equal amount of light.
The faster the shutter speed, the lower the guide number. Maybe you should check your owners manual to read about that.

Or your flashes will have to be very close to the subject and the flash head directed straight ahead which may make the WL reception a problem.

Here a excerpt from the 5600HS(D) manual






Edited by michelb - 22 July 2024 at 02:58
Michel B
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flyingzebra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 03:52
Thanks Michel

The venues that I’m considering for this application are pretty small

I’ve been to restaurants that are larger inside than some of these venues

This could work - and should be fun finding out

I’m sure there’s more to learn about the system, this is why I ask
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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 12:10
I'm not sure what digital you already have , if you've nothing that already uses the same lenses and flash as the Dynax 9 , you might consider picking up an old Sony a700 and couple of Minolta 5600HS/d flashes ( or a 5600HS/d as the controller and a 3600HS/d as the off camera flash .

You'd be able to have a good play around with the flash to get the hang of it then .
When you've done with the a700 , sell it on again for what you paid .
A lot cheaper than practicing on film .
Note the earlier 5400HS won't function correctly on digital cameras .

Just a thought .

These flashes were also sold as the Sony HVL-F56AM and HVL-F36AM .
Both of these will also work with your film cameras .
see my photostream on flickr;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Flyingzebra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 13:17
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

I'm not sure what digital you already have…


This α9 with 50/1.4 etc is the only A-Mount *anything* that I have
No other Minolta, No Sony

Heaps of other things, but this one is unique here
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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2024 at 15:16
Originally posted by Flyingzebra Flyingzebra wrote:

Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:

I'm not sure what digital you already have…


This α9 with 50/1.4 etc is the only A-Mount *anything* that I have
No other Minolta, No Sony

Heaps of other things, but this one is unique here


It would be a good idea to pick up an old A mount dSLR to get the hang of wireless flash control .
You can even pick up such as the a200 for less than £50 at times .
You can't buy much film for £50 to practice on !

When you've done with the dSLR , sell it on .
You can't lose , in fact you might even make a profit.
You'll certainly learn how the Sony/Minolta flash system works with instant feedback and review.
see my photostream on flickr;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.
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