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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 15:18
addressing the WR fad!

I've seen comments in lesser forums (not here) about people not understanding the need/desire for WR kit.

Fujifilm is full of oddness here. All the R series primes are WR but not all of the bodies. And the X-T3 buttons/dials are a real disapointment. I've had the Panasonic G80 (and consider G90) and that is weather sealed but the buttons are properly tactile without feeling like moosh.

And I don't shoot in the rain (often) and never understood the want for WR kit. Also not being a landscape shooter means I've not been out shooting much in that weather. Back in the days I shot wildlife I've done that in pooring rain with plastic capes, umbrellas and just naked (um, camera, not me!).

Until I moved to a beach town. There is sand everywhere. Including all my coat/jacket pockets! I have to hoover the inside of my jackets and fleece and my rarely used camera bag.

This is one reason I'm super happy with the RX100 IV - the price - used for $350-450 (same in £ or ). If I kill this in a year I'm actually okay with that. I'd rather it kept going and I've never cleaned one piece of camera kit so much. It has been salt splashed and sand blown a few times. Plus some pocket dust. It is the very first bit of camera gear that I know I will never be able to sell.

I don't take my big cameras out if the wind is over 15mph, it is that much of a factor. So, a used A7II + used 28/2 are probably the smarter budget options, with regular cleaning.
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 15:24
Thanks again people
This is proving useful to me

On paper a switch from my Pan GX9 to a Pan G90 would be smart. G90 is WR, low price, had a lovely grip, one of the best EVFs around, and is 20mp (like the GX9) which is one reason I sold the G80. Plus I have the amazing Leica 12-60. Sadly there isn't a small WR prime though (12/1.4 is crazy price and Oly/Pan don't talk to each other and the Oly 1.2 are mahoosive).

I just fancy a change though. Enjoyed trying the fujifilm - have bought and used enough of it to know it isn't for me - and I'd been tempted by the system ever since the XPro1 launch.

If Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, and Ricoh could all get together and make an RX100 body/LCD/EVF with a Ricoh '28' matched to the Pan multi format sensor and X100V weather sealing I'm SOLD!
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
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Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 17:03
Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

The NP-FW50 in the APS-C cameras is just fine. Bring a spare when needed. The A6400 has a CIPA rating of 410, that Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II has a CIPA rating of 440. Basically the same.
With the A7r2 I also did not find the battery a problem, but I always brought a spare.
Just one spare? I recall at times, I was carrying 4 or 5 NP-FW50s for α7R II and had to use all of these. Granted, this was on a very cold winter day (say, at least -15C) and some of these batteries may been old and worn (bought for α55, which was my first camera using this battery type) and some also dirt cheap third party products.
Pro tip:
Turn off the auto viewfinder/screen switch. Set the camera to viewfinder. When you stop looking through the viewfinder, it goes off. It saves loads of energy. Assign a button to switch to the screen if need be.

Also, moving to a place that is warmer then -15C might also work

BTW, the Canon 5D IV has a CIPA rating of 900, the Canon EOS R has the same sensor and battery with a CIPA rating of 350. (Sony A7r2 is 290)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 17:08
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

A6400/16-70 price is just too close to the A7II/28 for me to properly consider it. The lens range is super duper. The 16-70/4 is fairly easy to find on the used market too and priced well. But reviews are mixed.
The 16-70/4 is better then i expected. If you pixel peep it is somewhat disappointing, but if you look at the whole picture, these flaws are much less prominent and the colour response is lovely.

Then there is the 18-135 which is a better allround lens but with variable aperture. It might be the better choice for most people, but you only can decide if most includes you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 17:36
Just tried to find battery life of my former Nikon D2H (it was Nikon D6 shaped, with the vertical grip built-in rather than the newer fad of bolt-on grips). Battery life wasn't even mentioned in the spec list! I know I would get 1000+ frames out of a day.

... so much for the modern improvements and the move to mirrorless!

Cell phones also used to have a one week battery.
Odd how we've adopted 'one day' as the norm.
(I'm getting old)

I have to admit that I have looked at a few used Nikon D3 body prices (store only for the 6 month cover). I saw a good price on a D2X (the high res alternative to the 4mp D2H that I had, both were APS, I wanted D2X at the time but was silly priced) ... then saw today's used price of the D700 (12mp FX). D3 is still relatively pricey - it was their first FX (full frame). And none of this lot is small. It is what drove me to look at some of the Canons. I know I loved the clean D700 files.
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
If you've got something better tonight
Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 17:45
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

A6400/16-70 price is just too close to the A7II/28 for me to properly consider it. The lens range is super duper. The 16-70/4 is fairly easy to find on the used market too and priced well. But reviews are mixed.
The 16-70/4 is better then i expected. If you pixel peep it is somewhat disappointing, but if you look at the whole picture, these flaws are much less prominent and the colour response is lovely.

Then there is the 18-135 which is a better allround lens but with variable aperture. It might be the better choice for most people, but you only can decide if most includes you.


The 16-70/4 is still a consideration. I got all confused with the timeline and name of the A6xxx series (not released in number order). There are a couple of the higher end SONY APS (E) primes that are of vague interest but I'm not on for the consumer grade stuff - but also not looking to build a system. I LOVE the corner EVF position on my FujiFilm X-E3, Panasonic GX9, and RX100. I have a big squishy nose that just stays away since I'm a right eye shooter.

While I don't like the idea of putting FE glass onto an E/APS body as I'm a fan of 'made for this sensor' design. I would happily mount a Sony 50 macro to an APS body - it is one exception I'd make. The macro is lower on the list of needs though. The optical quality I need for my close-up work would be fine with a +4 screw in filter (making photos of old coins just for interest not for artistic reasons).

The A7C is my camera (except for the price) ... perhaps I get a A6xxx (I think the 6400 is the one I liked the look of) with the 16-70/4 and wait for the A7C mark II to bring the mark I to my wallet point. Be interesting to see if the A7C is the only one in that shape though. Doubt there would be enough interest for an R and an S version since the A7S and A7R lines are not exactly big. The A7C seems to be a 'travel' camera (in 2020!).
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
If you've got something better tonight
Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
Eric Clapton, 1978
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 17:48
The Nikon D3 is rated at 4300 pictures.

If you look at D700 generation, the Sony A900/A850 is a lovely camera.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 17:57
Zeiss 35/2.8 - nobody has mentioned this yet. This seems to be an absolute bargain on the used market (looking at the same used shop that has 16-70/4 and 28/2 and the A7II) ... this tells me they are both more numerous and potentially not amazing. Perhaps I am reading too much into it.

Again the reviews of this are variable.

Unfortunately in the times since I was actively buying/trying/swapping lenses there seems to have been a new trend develop on (other) forums with the 'my copy' comment and it kinda suggests that QC have exited the building.

Back to the Zeiss 16-70/4. And my experience with the Panasonic 12-35/2.8 and Leica 12-60/2.8-4 - if these three are all 'kinda similar' optically then I'd be happy. Although I'd not really be getting any more bokeh-balls.

Have also considered the Sony 10-18/4 since I tend to live in the "24-28mm" zone. OOS (a6400 doesn't have IBIS so my lens sort of needs to). 10-18/4 is well priced new and is also stated as dust/water resistent design.
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
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Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
Eric Clapton, 1978
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 18:02
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

The Nikon D3 is rated at 4300 pictures.

If you look at D700 generation, the Sony A900/A850 is a lovely camera.


Bargains to be had in the older cameras too. I've seen some remarkably low frame rate D700 in a camera store I use.

Perhaps I need to rewind further back than the A7II - but I do want IBIS (Nikon doesn't have this in any small lens).

There is too much choice when I add in used body.

Got excited when I delved into the Pentax KP (APS) design and specs (and new price!) but the lenses are all over the map. Alas none of the highly regarded primes have WR. And I have a feeling some of their lense make ye olde world whirring sounds.
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 18:15
IMHO, CZ 2,8/35 is quite decent little lens. Perhaps F2.8 can be little limiting at times.

And if you end up with Sony APS-C E mount camera, I think one potential lens option is the new Tamron 17-70 mm F2.8 VC, which at least on the spec sheet looks quite promising proposition.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2020 at 19:25
Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

IMHO, CZ 2,8/35 is quite decent little lens. Perhaps F2.8 can be little limiting at times.

And if you end up with Sony APS-C E mount camera, I think one potential lens option is the new Tamron 17-70 mm F2.8 VC, which at least on the spec sheet looks quite promising proposition.


thank you, I've just looked at that on-line now [Tam 17-70]. It is a bit big. My gripe with the Pan GX9 + 12-60/2.8-4 [24-120mm] is that even that lens is a little off balance or me. GX9 works well with the little primes but I don't want to re-buy the Pan 12-35/2.8 which would suit it better since I bought my original one new (at considerable cost) and try not to re-buy lenses. OKay, I've had 3 copies of several lenses I've missed over the years [never sell a good lens!].

I love the size/shape/look of the CZ 35/2.8 ... that is like a 1.4 on m43 so I know I could have fun even at f2.8. But I know I'd end up switching to the 28/2 soon enough. 28/2 ticks more boxes for me even though I like the design idea of the 35/2.8 (silly, as it is the optics that are more important I know).
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
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Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2020 at 13:31
My short list, which I'll probably park for a few months while I consider my desires:
- A7 II
- 28/2
- 50/2.8 macro ... perhaps not on day one, but I want this for sure

The CZ 35/2.8 is also of interest, and I'd quite likely get one (used, free long term rental) to give it a whirl. It would be fun to run 28/2 solo for 3 months and then switch out to the 35/2.8 for another 3 months. I'm sure I'd be happy with both.

It might even be smarter to get the 35/2.8 first and see if I can one-lens that and ignore the 28 and 50 thoughts. 35/2.8 is proper small. I'd need an f1.4 on m43 to get a similar looking image. The snag is that m43 primes are sharp wide open. But I can happily treat the 35/2.8 as an f4 lens (would need an f2 prime on m43 to match the bokehness).

My fujifilm and Panasonic shelf of unused/used gear more than covers the new asking price for this kit list, I'd actually prefer not to spend the whole budget though. I should know that I belong on the used market and not to by new kit again though, I'm only ever disapointed with new kit.

Then in a couple of years I can up/side-grade to the A7C when the II launches.

The alternative is that I move entirely to the used market and grab a Canon 5DII for £400 used and pop a 28/2.8 IS on it ... one lens for a year ... then switch over to a Nikon D700. Big lunps of camera with no mirrorless amazingness but absolute bargains! D700 with just 13k frames for £359. Probably the same amount in $ or . The one benefit of Canon and Nikon AF mount is that there a LOADS of used lenses and glass prices are down low.

Too. Much. Choice.
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
If you've got something better tonight
Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2020 at 14:12
I don't recommend the CZ 35/2.8, unless silence is the highest priority or you require a blue badge on a small lens. It was one of the original FE lenses and the only option for a couple of years.

Edited by QuietOC - 10 December 2020 at 14:24
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2020 at 18:51
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

I don't recommend the CZ 35/2.8, unless silence is the highest priority or you require a blue badge on a small lens. It was one of the original FE lenses and the only option for a couple of years.


Thank you - this is the golden info I come to Dyxum for.

Is it just 'not good enough' at that price? Or specifically bad? If it was say just 10-20% more expensive than the 28/2 would it be considered better? New price today there is a near 2x difference between those two. And everything I've read points me at the 28/2 instead. Which is fine as I'm enjoying the 28mm view.

If I went for the 35/2.8 expecting it to deliver well at f4 thru f8 would it impress? f4 on FX is like f2 on m43 in terms of depth of field and there aren't a lot of options at my price point.

The drastic new/used price difference on that one is also the reason that I would only aim to buy the 35/2.8 on the used market. It is a lens I am curious about and I'd be happy to grab one used one day if I can see enough action/interest on eBay to know I could then sell it on after a 3 month trial. It might also get me back into writing reviews.

28/2 (and possible/probable 50 macro) would be keeper/s. I'd want to try the 50/1.8 and 35/2.8 I'm sure. 35/1.8 and 85/1.8 might also tempt me as 3 month test units but I cannot remember if they are both FF.
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
I can tell you're only lying
If you've got something better tonight
Then don't mess up my mind with your crying
Just Walk Out In The Rain
Eric Clapton, 1978
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