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choosing an RX100

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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 00:09
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

For me the RX 100 range are grotesquely overpriced childrens toys. I'm not a Canon fanboy but Canon really know how to make pocket cameras - Sony took a long time to catch up with them and the result is fiddly and breakable. Full marks for cleverness, but very few for engineering quality. Pansonics are much better in almost every respect, especially if you do real photography.
Huh? This needs some more explanation. "Overpriced children's toys" is a nice sound bite, but it is based on, well, what? The original RX100 is 299,- what is overpriced? The Canon G9x is 350,-. Panasonic? They use sequential viewfinders and the lenses on the TZ100 and TZ200 are below par.

You might not like the RX100 cameras, but you need to give us some more information why you do not like them....
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sybersitizen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 04:59
Opinions are just that: opinions. Here's mine:

I bought a second-hand RX100III two years ago specifically to use on a very special family excursion through Scotland. It went everywhere we went, in my shirt pocket, and I am 100% happy with the photos it produced. I own six cameras covering three sensor formats, a couple dozen lenses, and lots of other stuff ... but the RX100III is the camera that gets the most use even now.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dopol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 07:58
I do have the RX100M5
It's easy to slip it in my pocket, it gives good results (using not too high ISO) and it got some funny features (toy-like, sure, but funny)
I love it and use it a lot
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken
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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 12:44
on the 'over-priced' thing ... I do agree with this for the RX100 VII
it is £1200 in the UK new!!!!!

A Panasonic GX800 with removeable 12-32 lens is £350 NEW. And launched at about £400 I think.
Has a bigger sensor, also does 4K, and has the option to add lots of other lenses.

The RX100 does fit in trousers/pants pocket and no mirrorless can do that. But that is a big premium over my main camera.

My main camera, Pan GX9 is £450 new today (got mine new for £400). I couldn't tripple that asking price for a pocket compact. But I would and did consider the £800 GR III. Seems to be good value especially as they are known for having an amazing lens (I and II, I've not seen much comparison with the newly design III lens - I think it is new?).

I'm surprized and happy that the new vlog ZV-1 (RX100 Va with some physical changes) is 'just' £700 at launch. I think they have pitched that at the right price and if you've seen a video review of how the 'product shot focus feature' thing works this thing is gonna be super popular for starter youtubers.

As a bit of an unknown I really struggled with the idea of £700 for the RX100 Va (the camera I wanted the most). So I settled on the III at £380 new and was viewing it as a trial for the camera/lens/pocket idea with the intention of upgraing to the Va but only if I like it a lot (but would only get it during a cashback deal £100 at the moment to £600, so bound to repeat that one day). Cheaper, lower risk, trial.

I'd totally overlooked the IV which is a lot of the V/Va for half the price used. I'm now very unlikely to move from the IV to VA and more likely to just keep the IV. Or if I find I never use the 1.8 I might 'upgrade' to a used VI - unlikely though. The 1.8-2.8 lens is one big factor in wanting this. I'd consider the Canon G5 X II (24-120/1.8-2.8) as a future move though, £800 I think ... too much for a 'new and untried' type of camera for me today. Perspective and value proposition might change after 6 months of RX100 IV though.
I can still remember how that music used to make me smile
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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 17:44
first/quick handling impressions

good
+ love the build
+ love the size
+ buttons are great
+ EVF is a thrill!
+ box is nice and small/efficent

Metal cameras for the win! Fits my pocket and even though I rarely menu dive it is nice to have decent buttons. Having an EVF was a big factor in my search but curious to see how much I use it. I know my RX100 IV has a two-step EVF operation which was all fine and amazing ... until the newere (VI?) made it a one step process (so I just need to pretend I don't know that).

middle
~ turn on/off is quite slow (known/expected from reviews)
~ zoom toggle is a little jumpy (might try the ring as a zoom)
~ I'm okay with the smooth no-grip (field test needed)
~ would prefer tilt down to 90' (but knew this was just 45' and it beats fixed)
~ wrist strap is a little skinny

I think I can set the zoom to step to known markers like 24/28/35/50 (which I might do). I am a bit of a zoom novice. I specifically hunted for a used RX100 without the optional stick-on front/right grip as I wanted to have it as much metal as possible - glad I did too. I'm used to chunky gordy wrist straps and newer thicker material ones so might upgrade this one.

bad
- battery charging in-camera is a nice feature to have but super fiddly

I ordered an external charger and some spare batteries already (bookmarked on eBay before the camera arrived in anticipation). This is probably just a me thing since I've always had external chargers and multiple cells. Nice to have the travelling light option of in-camera but not something I want as a routine. My Panasonic GX9 is 'charge battery in camera' too but has a spring loaded flap and the connector is more reassuring. Today is probably the first/last time I'll charge it in camera. Third-party external charger and 2x cells at just £21 is a bargain.

Shame the battery was near flat on arrival as I'd like to take it out for a spin today. When I sell a camera or phone on eBay I always charge it up the day before sending (please do this!).
I can still remember how that music used to make me smile
- Don McLean
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 13:19
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

For me the RX 100 range are grotesquely overpriced childrens toys. I'm not a Canon fanboy but Canon really know how to make pocket cameras - Sony took a long time to catch up with them and the result is fiddly and breakable. Full marks for cleverness, but very few for engineering quality. Pansonics are much better in almost every respect, especially if you do real photography.
Huh? This needs some more explanation. "Overpriced children's toys" is a nice sound bite, but it is based on, well, what? The original RX100 is 299,- what is overpriced? The Canon G9x is 350,-. Panasonic? They use sequential viewfinders and the lenses on the TZ100 and TZ200 are below par.

You might not like the RX100 cameras, but you need to give us some more information why you do not like them....


Flimsy construction, awkward operation, toy-like controls, with prices that would match a far more serious product (or two of them - £1200 for a toy camera? Amazing). To me the RX100 range is a fashion accessory and not a real camera. Sorry to be rude to everyone here who has them and likes them, but they just don't match up to any of their competitors except purely in terms of size - and my old Canon S100 is smaller and better made and has the functions I need. No, it doesn't have a VF but neither does the RX100, at least not one I find useable.

Edited by Miranda F - 16 June 2020 at 13:22
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
 



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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 14:13
initial handling and file thoughts from an 80-frame test photo walk yesterday

wrist strap - I would have dropped the camera twice without that wrist strap in my first 2 hours. So totally I understand all the research/review talk of 'get a grip'. I still won't but will get a better wrist strap. I did see a couple of used RX100 that didn't show/mention the wrist strap - so get one in before using this outdoors!!

Focus point selection - this is a fiddly and I don't know how this got to be this popular and wait until version VI before having touch screen. That said it is a point-and-shoot camera and perhaps only a hobbiest or real camera user would want to select their own focus point. To me, one big selling point of the I/II/III/IV/V/Va is the f1.8 aperture. To me that means bokeh-fun (but of course also means low-light usage). And bokeh fun needs focus point selection. Fidly but I don't shoot action so have the time. I would imagine a family photographer would be happy with the auto-face features.

Menus - the first few pages seem well designed and obvious to adjust without opening the manual. But then the deeper settings are pretty badly labelled, it is like the final few features were just thrown in with not as much thought. Sony is famous for having poor menu structure, but I initially thought it was okay (until I got to the ends of the menus and the finer points which lost logic). RX100 Va (the update 'a' version) does have 'my menu' and this is probably on VI and VII too - a good addition.

Customize - I am a rare menu diver anyway and tend to just set a camera to my way of shooting and then rely on as few button clicks as possible. I tend to re-visit the entire menu structure after one month of using to see if I want to amend my initial set-up design but after that leave it alone. That might be my fixed and not very varibale shooting style though. I was able to add all the features I want to direct buttons. For now I have shape (1:1, 16:9, 4:3, 3:2) set to one button (while I decide on what my next project is). And focus method set to another ... so for focus point selection I can click, dial the size, and move it over the area of the photo. It is much slower than touch to focus but not a show stopper. It will depend how used to touch you are on a camera (I've had it for over 10 years on Oly/Pan so will take longer to transition).

movie button - I shoot stills, would be nice to use that red button as another custom button but it cannot be re-mapped. The down wheel button is set to exp comp and not able to change this one (all others can be re-mapped). Odd, but I'd probably have it set to exp comp anyways.

lens ring - I would prefer this to be clicky (go to Canon). I have the ring set to jump the zoom: 24/28/35/50/70 but in the field used the toggle to frame which is any focal length - very nice to have both options in play at the same time. I like that. I'd be equally happy to turn the lens ring off to prevent accidential use and certainly wouldn't put anything important like ISO or Exp Comp to it as the camera is quite small.

set-up - it took me just 15mins to set it up initially from system reset and then 5 mins in the field on a park bench to customize a few buttons and try things out. While complex the manual is still unopened.

on/off time - scrub my earlier comment, it is about what I expected for ON time. A little slow to turn off. I can see why a 'street/candid' photographer might not like this. But I don't shoot with people in my image and am not in that rush, so works fine for me.

Files - very quick look at the images and I'm pleased with the optical performance and noise and ISO selected (auto). Can do bokeh shots (even though smaller than m43). But zoomed in the jpgs are pretty grim (but jpgs are trash anyway). Still need to have a look at the raws. If I was starting my 365 yesterday I would have bagged a keeper and had 3-4 shots I would consider as the day's one photo. So, it works for me.

Touch Version - yes there needs to be a RX100 VB with a touch screen. The new Vlog ZV-1 probably means there isn't going to be a Vb though. Shame. I'd still favor the 24-70/1.8-2.8 lens over the slower 24-200 (touch).

Pocket dust - wow, my 'washed a few days' ago trouser pockets are pretty fluffy/grainy. I can understand how Ricoh GR people have problems. Not sure if I will switch to keeping it in a plastic sandwich bag in my pocket though? Since I intend to have this as a permanent pocket camera and use it every day that could be fiddly. I imagine cleaning will be a daily event - unexpected but not the end of the world.

handling - good, I like it. Compacts are pretty new to me. The EVF open is a bit slow but I used it for maybe 1/5 of the shots. It is nice and easy to carry in hand (with wrist strap) when I reached the place I wanted to shoot some test shots. And is pretty invisible and phone like to detract attention.

Canon G9 X II - I wish I'd used this more when I had it years ago, cannot remember what the files were like. 28mm not 24mm. But f2 and then zoomed into slowness. But it is a step smaller than the RX100 models so could be a good alternative as a 'keep it at 28mm' compact. It has touch - but fixed screen and decent menus (it is a Canon).

keeper - as long as the RAWs are okay it is a keeper and for me better than the VI with it's 24-200mm as I've used f2 already and like the blur I can get. Note that for me this is replacing my mid-range phone (£240-ish new) so will eclipse it but of course phones do auto-hdr and some processing which needs input from me with a raw file so slows me down ... but for better images.

value - I'm not sure I'd pay £700 for the RX100 Va new. I'm happpy with this as a £350-400 used IV though. And I can see why the RX100 III would sell well at £380 new (lower res evf, no 4K, less focus points?). An RX100 VB with touch at £550 would get my money (but it won't happen or be that cheap).
I can still remember how that music used to make me smile
- Don McLean
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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 14:26
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Flimsy construction, awkward operation, toy-like controls, with prices that would match a far more serious product (or two of them - £1200 for a toy camera? Amazing). To me the RX100 range is a fashion accessory and not a real camera. Sorry to be rude to everyone here who has them and likes them, but they just don't match up to any of their competitors except purely in terms of size - and my old Canon S100 is smaller and better made and has the functions I need. No, it doesn't have a VF but neither does the RX100, at least not one I find useable.


The camera is very solid and made of metal. The one flap I've used once (camera charge port) will remain unused once my external charger arrives. There is nothing flimsy about this camera.

Take a look at some of the beaten up versions on eBay or google image search - this thing can take some abuse. I used to follow a youtuber who earned his income from his youtube and went through a bunch of RX100 but he treated them bad (most photographers would wince at his handling, he is a vlogger not a photographer so doesn't think delicate like we might). If he'd used a plastic camera he'd go through many more.

Contrast the Panasonic G80's buttons are mush - I owned this as my only camera for a year and never got to muscle memory on the buttons (WR body but mush). The buttons on the RX100 IV are small (it is a small camera) but appear to be metal (not sure) and the click is pleasing and solid. I've had worse mirrorless and dSLR buttons. I would like the lens ring to click but it has nice resistence.

Fujifilm X100 / S / T / F ... now that is a fashion accessory. With a super clever optical viewfinder and a terrible lens. Might have f2 written on the spec sheet but unusable until f5.6. The V apparently has a good lens (it is about time!). I'd say the same for the X-T30 I tried and X-E3. They look nice but the buttons are not as nice as the RX100.

Is the RX100 worth £1200 - nope. No way. Never. But £250-400 (III to IV) for a used mint one. Yeah, I'd say so. The few comparisons I've seen (which I am tempted to repeat) show that the lens on the I through Va is better than all the Canon alternatives. The Canon G5 X II interested me ... but not at £800 thank you. The G5 X II has a new lens which is supposed to be better than the 24-100 in the G7 X II and III - but £800 is too much for a pocket camera (unless it has Ricoh GR III written on it!).

I thought the S100 range had phone size sensors, so not really part of the comparison. The Olympus TG-6 is tough but also has a phone camera sensor ... so might as well use a phone.
I can still remember how that music used to make me smile
- Don McLean
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Almazar80 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Almazar80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 14:26
I have the RX100II and RX100III. I originally bought an RX100 for my cousin and she liked it (when she could find where she put the batteries). I bought an RX100II for myself. One of the things that the II had, compared to the other units is that it focused closer than any of the other RX100 models at the wide end, which was great when you were trying to get interesting shots inside a bunch of flowers, for example. I gave it to my mom when I bought the III. I like the III and the controls never bothered me. I miss the flash shoe though, but I find the finder useful. Still, once I got the RX10II and then the RX10IV, the 100 didn't get used as much. Those cameras are larger, but they have the best ergonomics of almost any Sony camera at the moment.

I now have the RX10II again, and it really is as useful as I remembered. So useful that I am thinking about a ZV-1. From the reports, it seems to have really good AF and those vlogging profiles seem to work quite well. That product profile (or whatever they call it) looks like it will be great for remote photography.

I still like the viewfinder, but if I were to buy a new one I'd probably end up with a ZV-1. Though I would really also think about an RX10 model. The RX10IV is basically my favorite Sony camera.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2020 at 15:19
hi @almazar - yeah I can see an RX100 (or ZV-1) to accompany an RX10 is also an interesting idea.

Have a look at iJustine on YouTube for her review of the ZV-1 ... she does the 'product mode' or whatever it is called and the focus is astonishing! Now, she is a 'pro' vlogger. But her comments are interesting since she is reviewing it as much as a work tool as for the clicks and income.

Since looking at the RX100 line I did have a good look at the RX10 models too (and RX0). I have very very occasional need (mmm, desire) for a very long lens. Considered a compact/phone camera senor camera (Sony HX99 with 720mm lens) which to be fair is probably around the right sort of value that I want to spend. And a neat size and also takes the RX100 batteries - it looks to be almost the same camera (though I think this is plastic?)

Panasonic does a 1" compact (with touch screen I think) that has a 360mm lens - but it gets panned in the reviews. And is also a lot more pricey (£550) than the Sony HX99 (£330-ish?) - both honestly a bit more than I want to spend as a trial do-I-really-want-this camera.

It isn't for 'keeper amazing gallery wall' photos. I just happen to live a 2 min walk from the beach and see some interesting big boats go by almost every day. On a very clear day (perhaps less than once a week) I get a super view through my binoculars. And I've seen a few small sail boats next to the big tankers and container ships ... I'm really keen to snap a few shots to show the scale.

This would be a switch from walking without a bag to having a small camera bag (okay, it is a man bag). Which I could have spare batteries, mini tripod. And maybe even carry my RX100 in there too. Which means I could venture into the bigger compacts (LX100 II or Canon G1X III) but I'm keen to spend at least 3 months on 1" to see if it works for me.

I bought a Panasonic 45-150mm f4-5.6 for my m43 ... effective 300mm. This thing is super cheap at £175 new! And it is one of those gems in the system that has fabulous image quality for it's price. Again - I'm just wanting a couple of snaps to decorate a blog post not looking for gallery quality. I returned it (the only new lens I've ever sent back) as 300mm just wasn't enough. And I want to travel lighter than GX9/45-150 too. It was good but I don't want to spend on the 100-300/4-5.6 (just under £500) for the 600mm reach as it is for very occasional use and is too big to carry around just in case. Hence the interest in the Sony HX99.

Oddly ... found myself looking at the RX10 III (24 (2.4?) to 600mm f4) - wow! Shame it is too big and too expensive for my need. But at the same time part of my desire to get the Sony RX100 was to properly understand how much I can get out of the sensor. I could/would potentially replace my Pan GX9 with an RX10 III. But most of my photo walks will be without a bag and just the RX100 IV in my pocket. The RX10 being WR too would help.

So, the want for the RX100 has many many levels for me. The not 1" sized actually 1" sensor, a camera in my pocket, a do i want the VI (24-200), a do I want an RX10, a do I really need my Pan GX9, a do I want a GR III ... can I cope without a touch screen. Lots of reasons. I might have stated my 'Jul-Aug' mini 92-day '365-lite' already yesterday by accident!

A used RX100 II/III/IV is a good tester for me, and being the IV is more likely to be a longer term keeper than a III would have been. So, I'm happier with my wiser choice to try this as a 'free-rental' used camera first.

Edited by dCap - 16 June 2020 at 16:22
I can still remember how that music used to make me smile
- Don McLean
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