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Cities: Walcheren, Netherlands

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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2021 at 17:00
Do you have dodgem cars (botsautos)? We need those for the Next Picture thread
Why not follow me on Instagram? @Addy_101
 



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angora View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2021 at 21:45






hi Addy! checked once more. have the strangest apparatus for you on offer, but dodgem cars are not among them, sorry?
(only little bumper cars for toddlers that run on little wheels).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2021 at 21:58
Maybe those can be considered demolition derby racers driving on a dirt track?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Idleidolidyll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2021 at 22:42
I hope this is OK here:

Coming from a country named after your province (although mis-spelled), I've often read of and looked at isolated images of Zeeland and wondered why our country is named after it.

Did Abel Tasman actually come from Zeeland? Even if he did, he never landed in Aotearoa/New Zealand, he thought the natives too fierce so why?

The Brits and French first settled here and, for a while it seemed they would do battle to gain dominance. Obviously Britain 'won' so why did they keep a Dutch name?

Finally, Maori were never extinguished and, under the treaty signed in 1840, had full sovereign rights. Maori were never 'one people' but many Iwi who considered sections of NZ as 'theirs' along the lines of Europe. They therefore never had a collective name for the country but have colloquially called it Aotearoa for a long time (after colonisation).

But back to Zeeland vs New Zealand: ours is a mountainous land of two large islands and many small ones. Our total Exclusive Economic Zone including claimed ocean and sea limits is about 4 million square kilometres but only 268,000 sq km of that is land so we are predominantly a 'liquid' nation ;-). Our geography is so different to Zeeland and adding those questions above, I remain confused and amazed that we have retained the name since 1642 when Tasman first sighted the land. Obviously, Western perceptions of superiority are why it became so but why did it remain so?

So to the images, I've always thought of Zeeland as a flat, boring, swamp at some major river delta (forgive me for that).
Your photo's have enlightened me: Zeeland certainly has it's own charm. Your history gives you depth (our cities are so young there's little history to be seen) and that by itself adds immensely to the available wealth of imagery available. But, surprisingly to me, you also have a beautiful landscape.

I won't try to compare and contrast the visual sides of the two places as that would be trite. Having lived all over the world, I both appreciate the landscape here and feel a gap in visual histories available between us and the Old World.

Kia-ora, Kia Amo, Tu Whakahihi (Welcome, Stand Strong, Stand Proud)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote floydbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2021 at 19:38
Originally posted by Idleidolidyll Idleidolidyll wrote:

I hope this is OK here:

Coming from a country named after your province (although mis-spelled), I've often read of and looked at isolated images of Zeeland and wondered why our country is named after it.

Did Abel Tasman actually come from Zeeland? Even if he did, he never landed in Aotearoa/New Zealand, he thought the natives too fierce so why?

...


I saw a snippet on TV not long ago (might have been on Seven Sharp, as part of an article on whether New Zealand should be officially renamed). Apparently Abel Tasman called this place Van Diemen's land, and it was the 'authorities' back in the Netherlands who decided on Nieuw Zeeland. Zee meaning Sea, I can only speculate that it was because both are land surrounded by lots of water.

Edited by floydbloke - 25 August 2021 at 19:41
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Idleidolidyll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2021 at 22:00
Van Diemens Land is Tasmania.
Still seems kinda ridiculous given that Tasman never landed here and Maori discovered it first.
Western imperialism has a lot to answer for. I really do prefer Aotearoa; it has a connection that New Zealand utterly lacks
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2021 at 16:52
attempt to post- can't wait to see what will happen? Dyxum obviously still upside down






WOW, profound...
wonderful to see you 'finally' decided to join the Dyxum family! we say 'welkom' (but love the 'Tu Whakahihi' most. ). do you have Maori roots?
sorry for a late response! comp. on strike several times, and meanwhile did some homework for you. for what it's worth (??)- figured, since disaster came from Holland, one should be able to find 'proof' in our national musea -or data bases-. and guess what? as much there is to be found on our other 'heros', as little 'remained' of A. Tasman. not much on Oceania anyway, all very difficult to find.
(look for yourself?). -het Rijksmuseum is THE national museum and they came up with a great CONCEPT !-.



arrival in New-Zealand


about your main 'question', I, for one, surprisingly don't know. all I know is that the (dutch) ancestors went about stealing land and even people! and for some undefined reason, history was bent to make it sound like major achievements. when I go back to -very boring- history classes, we were taught, (educated!), the Netherlands brought forth some very successful explorers. chuckles at the ancient assumption mother earth was a pancake and at indigenous people that could be fooled with 'small mirrors and beads', (a classic!), to give up their goods, their treasures. (in the most 'human' scenario). and not a word about the rest! what is known as the 'golden century' (the 17th-) is still considered a major success story, which only very! recently started to crumble.



says it all?
(title page of book 'Batavia', 1740)- allegory on the V.O.C.
showing Batavia + VOC flag, the 'dutch lion' at her feet. on the left, Mercurius, god of trade, Freedom + the rest.
~ illustrates the pride the dutch took in their colonies.




1830-1835


1830-1835


Floyd has a strong point considering both New-Zealand and Zeeland are 'floating' in water. he also mentioned the dutch name- up until this day your country is called 'Nieuw-/'New'-Zeeland' in dutch. Zealand is a corruption and J. Cook seems to be responsible for that. I can fully understand why it w/b 'better' to officially adopt the Maori name. (only when it comes to Floyd, in his case, New-Zealand makes perfect sense. ).

I tend to believe that most names were picked at random, whatever came to mind? why is it that Tongatapu was named -the Island- Amsterdam? (page from Abel's ship's log here!).
or New York for that matter? do people still wonder where 'York' comes from? why Flushing (originally 'Vlissingen') was named after Vlissingen, Brooklyn after Breukelen, Harlem after Haarlem, Zeeland to be found in both North-Dakota and Michigan, etc.? (et-ce-te-ra! an endless list. have a list somewhere of places named Vlissingen, all over the world. and -guess- why? ;) why do male(animal)s p all over the place? ;)).






Abel Tasman, (no Zeeland-er, born in Lutjegast, province of Groningen), in search of the hypothetical Terra australis (incognita) -january 18 post-, thought New-Zealand was actually part of Australia and therefore called the entire area New-Holland (!!!). 'Nouvelle Hollande', a name, that would last until 1824! (Tasmania however...?? ;)). Tasman named it Statenland, convinced it was connected to
Staten Island, at the foot of Argentina. it kept that name until 1643, when a certain Hendrik Brouwer proved it was nowhere near the Argentinian coast. (all according to wiki). and the cartographers changed the name into 'Nova Zeelandia' (aka 'New-Zeeland', after this province indeed).




Isaack Gilsemans- view of MURDERERS' (!!!!! ) bay


Tasman 'found' New-Zealand on december 13, 1642. the next European in search of Terra australis, who sighted New-Zealand, was Cook. landed at Poverty Bay on october 8, 1769. it was Cook who then, a 'few' years later!, finally solved the mystery of the mysterious 'unknown south land'...   




map from after (!) 1775


are you sure this is the 'Old World'? as far as written history is concerned + the wealth exhibited, it is. but 'civilisation' is as superficial as the wealth, often blood money, displayed? as far as this province is concerned- Zeeland is much bigger than Walcheren, of course. but the truth is, that, on Walcheren indeed, what may appear as rather small provincial cities, Middelburg and Vlissingen, once were key players in the embarrassing dutch history. and it -still- shows. it were the Zeelanders, who 1st delivered negro slaves (paid for in shells!). and much, much more.





his own museum
in hometown Lutjegast


ADVENTURES!
...at MURDERERS' Bay




from Tasman's diary- the natives of New-Guinea


it's nice to dwell amidst the historical stuff, and frustrating to see it vanish. notice what was lost. what we can't see, because it's lacking, is the respect, usually highly regarded by indigenous tribes.
a province at some river delta indeed. (many local companies named Delta or have Delta in their names).
did you say SWAMP? ! LOLLL
(I can assure you that if there is 1 thing the dutch are obv. good at- it's claiming land and not just land that belonged to the sea. ).
except for 1 genuine salt marsh (near Ritthem) and the dunes, it's all man-made landscape , as beautiful as the crops/flowers planted on it. unlike your gorgeous 'hobbit' (forgive me?) land?

btw- 'this' gives an impression of (the beaches of ;)) the province of Zeeland?
(pls ignore the kiwis?! ;))

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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2021 at 19:51
Originally posted by Idleidolidyll Idleidolidyll wrote:

Van Diemens Land is Tasmania.
Still seems kinda ridiculous given that Tasman never landed here and Maori discovered it first.
Western imperialism has a lot to answer for. I really do prefer Aotearoa; it has a connection that New Zealand utterly lacks
Places change names all the time, Istanbul is Constantinople, or maybe even Byzantium. And Smyrna now is called Izmir.

I do not understand why it is important if he landed there, he anchored and interacted with the people already living there. What you call it, is up to you guys living there I am sure that after some time of adjustment we will call it the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2021 at 19:54

what's new?




they are!


the storks living there, are still ma - teen mom of 2012 - and the Hagenees, new pa from The Hague.
I was told however that ma has had THREE MEN this year...   




-ma on the left-





... resulting in the cutest offspring
(almost ready to go !)


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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2021 at 20:09
(oops! SORRY Domien!! -hadn't noticed you just posted- otherwise I would have waited )


what else is new?





them again! but with a significant difference this year
(and it's not the weather)






comparison? september 10, 2020:














vs. august 21, 2021...





can you spot what is different?









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Post Options Post Options   Quote Idleidolidyll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2021 at 20:30
[QUOTE=angora] WOW! You've really done your research! Yes, western 'civilisation' has a lot still to answer for across the globe and Nederland was just one player in that great game of stealing from 'savages'.

My own personal history is likely familiar to many here too: descendant of Irish immigrants forced off their lands by English lords who stole it over centuries and then decided that the 'peasants' no longer added any value. Their 'choice' was to starve in Ireland or accept indenture (to pay for their voyage) in New Zealand. Indenture for my paternal grandfather pretty much meant slavery by many measures: unable to work for any other business until his indenture expired, he lived for decades in tents building NZ's railway system. With 8 kids as his wife passed away, he had neither the time nor means to look after them and they were taken by the State and distributed around Catholic orphanages across the country.
Those were hard times for more than just Maori in NZ.

So no, not Maori: 3/4 Irish and 1/4 German (my maternal grandmother arrived in NZ in the mid 1930's). She understood what was happening and got out before the place turned to poison. I've visited her old home in the Old City at Bremen; it's like a Hans Christian Anderson movie set!

Love those post cards!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dopol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2021 at 09:54
Long overdue Ine
But here are some photos I took earlier this year in Middelburg

#1 Station
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#2 Easter Island in Middelburg
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#3
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#4
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#5
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#6
The Netherlands, MIddelburgThe Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#7 City Hall
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#8 more City Hall
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#9 Some street
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

#10 Looking in
The Netherlands, MIddelburg by dopol50, on Flickr

All with A1 and Batis 18mm
TFL
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken
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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2021 at 13:13
LOVE them, Domien! THX! striking- the recipe that really works- mixed light! amazing you managed to get the tower in 1 shot! (tricky one).
hope you didn't need those umbrellas! ;) did you also spend the night there? looks deserted!
hoping you have even more?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2021 at 13:16
Originally posted by Idleidolidyll Idleidolidyll wrote:

[QUOTE=angora] WOW! You've really done your research! Yes, western 'civilisation' has a lot still to answer for across the globe and Nederland was just one player in that great game of stealing from 'savages'.

My own personal history is likely familiar to many here too: descendant of Irish immigrants forced off their lands by English lords who stole it over centuries and then decided that the 'peasants' no longer added any value. Their 'choice' was to starve in Ireland or accept indenture (to pay for their voyage) in New Zealand. Indenture for my paternal grandfather pretty much meant slavery by many measures: unable to work for any other business until his indenture expired, he lived for decades in tents building NZ's railway system. With 8 kids as his wife passed away, he had neither the time nor means to look after them and they were taken by the State and distributed around Catholic orphanages across the country.
Those were hard times for more than just Maori in NZ.

So no, not Maori: 3/4 Irish and 1/4 German (my maternal grandmother arrived in NZ in the mid 1930's). She understood what was happening and got out before the place turned to poison. I've visited her old home in the Old City at Bremen; it's like a Hans Christian Anderson movie set!

Love those post cards!


how shocking... devastating!!! and not even that long ago? have you known your grandparents?
never been to NZ (a long swim), but thoroughly enjoyed many a guided tour here on Dyxum! apart from following Frodo on his travels. it strikes me though to see 'some' resemblance -while using LOTS of imagination ;) - with beautiful Ireland. been to Ireland as well? or the 'motherland' for that matter? (when it comes to history displayed, the UK w/b the place to be?). although Bremen, of course, is really pretty too. (Q? why is it that I've never seen Irish members??? do we have any?).

at least YOU are still able to see the stunning ancient land! ('cultivating' the landscape and 'adjusting' architecture is what keeps us busy. and frustrated! I was always convinced that, at least, they were not able to transform the sea, or they would have. but no longer true. really upsetting to learn -recently- that the jungle of (out of proportion) wind turbines, dumped all over the place, is not even ours !

According to Steven Engels, Orsted Netherlands director are the results of the survey in line with expectations. The developer has experienced a warm welcome from the local governments, CITIZENS and business since the plans were announced and actively invests in local content. An example is the decision to build a new operations and maintenance base in Vlissingen that will create between 50 to 100 jobs. Orsted starts with the offshore construction activities in December of this year. Borssele I & II will comprise 94, 8 MW turbines from Siemens Gamesa. The wind farm is planned to become operational by the end of 2020.

not to mention the birds and cetaceans... and the effects on the geomagnetic grid of our mother the earth (on which many species navigate. for starters?).
the latest? (epidemic they say, sure! and even then, no one wonders what undermined their immune systems?).

so are we done yet? came to our senses? has the persue of profit finally stopped? not to mention the greed disguised as 'science'?
we are so clever! we travel through space. many declared they would love to serve as guinea pigs, when they were offered a 1 way ticket to Mars, to go live on planet B, when we are done ruining the original. (after we fully exploited the poles of course). the scientists are working hard to realize this big escape, esp. focused on taking soil samples and all, aren't they? or could they be digging for alien gold?   
(or too opinionated? and lacking 'trust'??).



'homage to the colonies'

E 1,200,000 of national tax money went into the recent (2016-2021) restauration of the golden coach, pres. the most famous vehicle in the country, which meanwhile has become a really HOT topic.
very controversial because of a side panel named 'homage to the colonies'.


you ought to be glad the Brits took over, or you'd be speaking dutch!
figured the language could be my advantage, while trying to dive into colonial history, but it was not. (and of course, Floyd could have done it too. @Floyd- is Floyd your actual name? or are you named Piet or Hein and happen to be a bloke who likes Pink Floyd or something? ;)). (but did find the Tasman museum, suppose their (hi)story is all there is to be found). all of the musea visited presented their stuff in EN as well.

forgot 1...
https://www.volkenkunde.nl/en/whats-on-0/exhibitions/oceania
< The conversion to Christianity resulted in the destruction of many indigenous objects. > (and who exactly destructed them?).

which postcards? from Bremen? or the Maori?
(those are yours if you want them, free hi-res. downloads from the Rijks museum, link above. hard to find! tried every keyword I could come up with- the 2 folk costume prints for instance, showed up when searching for 'New Zealand', but were categorised as 'Australian and Oceanian races').





the Oostkerk again... sometime between 1895 and 1905
on the left: V.O.C. warehouses -for storage of colonial goods-

PS?
shot something Tasmanian yesterday! to be posted soon?


Edited by angora - 01 September 2021 at 13:29
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