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E-mount electronic protocol reverse engineering

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liubo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote liubo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2018 at 23:29
Ciao

I just switched from Canon to Sony and had to face the adaptor dilemma vs lenses. Sound a bit ridiculous that in 2018 we still have no product that can adapt all lanses.

Has anyone kickstarted any opensource adapter???   

Thanks
 



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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2018 at 10:56
Originally posted by liubo liubo wrote:

Ciao

I just switched from Canon to Sony and had to face the adaptor dilemma vs lenses. Sound a bit ridiculous that in 2018 we still have no product that can adapt all lanses.

There are adapters for each type of lens (for E-mount). Isn't that good enough?

Plus I don't understand why you would want to adapt a lot of different-mount lenses to one camera, apart from sheer perversity. There are very few lens designs that weren't made in lots of different mounts. It's not as if only Canon made good teles and only Nikon made good wide angles ...
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras . . .
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QuietOC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2018 at 11:47
Originally posted by liubo liubo wrote:

Ciao

I just switched from Canon to Sony and had to face the adaptor dilemma vs lenses. Sound a bit ridiculous that in 2018 we still have no product that can adapt all lanses.

Has anyone kickstarted any opensource adapter???

The Tech Art Pro is pretty much this already.

Edited by QuietOC - 09 June 2018 at 01:44
Sony A7III A7RII NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4r MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II TLT ROKR MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roboticon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2018 at 01:42
I had asked previously if the "Focus Hold" Button was a simple switch, or if the camera knows it is depressed by reading the data stream from the lens.
Thanks for those that answered that it was that the "state" of the button was read by the camera from within the data stream.

My reason for asking is this:
Recently, several lenses have appeared that lack this Focus Hold button, notably the entire Sigma FE lens lineup for the Sony E Mount, and even the Zeiss Batis lenses do not include the Focus Hold button.

As a regular user of the Sony Alpha cameras I would greatly appreciate:
An "external" Focus Hold button that could be engineered so that the button could be placed wherever it is desired - and simply connected to the camera, perhaps using an ultra-thin wire connector to the lens contacts.
This arrangement would be extremely helpful.

Would this be too difficult to be feasible?
Many thanks!
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QuietOC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2018 at 02:10
On my A68 the "Focus Hold" function can be assigned to any of the customizable buttons not just the "Focus Hold Button" on the lens. I don't see "Focus Hold" as an option on my A6000. It sounds like this focus hold customization in firmware started with the A77II and was introduced to E-mount with the A7II.

Edited by QuietOC - 09 June 2018 at 02:18
Sony A7III A7RII NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4r MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II TLT ROKR MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roboticon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2018 at 04:13
I agree and believe it is on all alpha's from the a7ii, as you said. It may also be on the a6300 and 6500.

You can assign Focus Hold, Eye-AF, Focus Start, etc. to most custom buttons, but all of the custom buttons are more awkward to use when hand-holding shots for which you want to keep the lens from moving. (That's why it is so convenient on those lenses they've put it on.)

But even some new, larger lenses do not have the Focus Hold button (like the new Sigma 105mm f/1.4 and 135mm f/1.8, which are some big pieces of glass!). These lenses (and really all lenses) would be much easier to control with a Focus Hold button on the lens, so you are not holding a Custom Button on the back of the camera, while pressing the Shutter Release, while trying to keep the lens steady - but you almost have to let go of the lens to press that Hold button. And that is not the best way to get a steady shot.

If we could get a thin wire to "sneak" through the lens ring and attach to the lens contacts somehow, this button could send the "Focus Hold" data, and that button could be placed into a much more logical place for steadying the lens and the shot.

Of course, it wouldn't have to be specifically a "Focus Hold" button. If it could masquerade as one of the other Custom buttons, then it could be programmed to do most anything. But if it has to use the Multi-Terminal Input - or if it has to use an infra-red remote - then it takes away some of that functionality. So the lens contacts would be much better to allow the most flexibility.

This would be extremely beneficial.
 



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sympa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sympa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2018 at 07:30
You would not attach this button to the lens ring contacts, but to the custom button contacts in the camera.
If you set a button for 'back button focus' i.e. 'focus start', and you connect a button that works in reverse (normally closed), it would work somewhat for AF-C. Focus would always be running, until you press that button.

Another disadvantages would be that AF-S only would focus when powering the camera on or after releasing it (so give it a disconnect switch).

As for the button as it sits on the lens: perhaps it is a simple protocol. Perhaps someone smart wants to look into it when she or he gets sent a free lens with 'focus hold' button. The person could hook it up to a logic analyser and see what the data packets look like. Perhaps that would work. But I would inform about the chance of success before sending that lens...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roboticon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 10:22
Interesting perspective - but it gives at least a chance at the possibility of something working in this regard. I don't know if the custom button contacts in the camera are the same as connecting via the "Multi-Terminal" connector socket. I need to still have that Multi-Connector available for remote control, so that would be a limitation. If there is another way to connect to the Custom Button contacts, that would be a great insight to a possible method that I could follow.
I will do more research into that possibility, and would still like to follow the "data packet" coming from the lens Focus Hold button, in case that method might pay off.
Many thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sympa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 10:32
Oh, BTW, if connecting the focus hold button to the lens contacts, one needs to combine this data. It will be very difficult. The lens and camera are communicating 100 times per second.

And, to make matters worse, the focus hold can also be implemented in the lens itself - maybe it is implemented as a 'stop motors' on the lens side, and the signal to the boy is just to give an indication in the display.

And that even sidesteps how you will connect to these contacts.

I think you are better off either buying a lens with hold button, using the back button focus technique or getting a different camera system. Creating something like this is very difficult, and it will not have a market as there is no clean way to plug it into a camera.

On the other hand, there IS a good market for lens adapters. Click-Click-Connected.
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liubo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote liubo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 13:41
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

Originally posted by liubo liubo wrote:

Ciao

I just switched from Canon to Sony and had to face the adaptor dilemma vs lenses. Sound a bit ridiculous that in 2018 we still have no product that can adapt all lanses.

There are adapters for each type of lens (for E-mount). Isn't that good enough?

Plus I don't understand why you would want to adapt a lot of different-mount lenses to one camera, apart from sheer perversity. There are very few lens designs that weren't made in lots of different mounts. It's not as if only Canon made good teles and only Nikon made good wide angles ...


I see your point, i can probably summarise my view in two points
1 In general i would like to use any lens with my camera regardless of brand or mount. Is not always possible or cheap :)
I think Canon glass is more popular and threfore cheaper
2 Im waiting to receive Vitrox IV and MC-11. From what I've read, generally adaptors do not adequately perform with all lenses. There's room for improvement


Are there any chances to create a simple arduino based converter/adapter EF to E mount? I saw the ESP32 has planty of processing power

Thanks    
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liubo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote liubo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 13:42
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

Originally posted by liubo liubo wrote:

Ciao

I just switched from Canon to Sony and had to face the adaptor dilemma vs lenses. Sound a bit ridiculous that in 2018 we still have no product that can adapt all lanses.

Has anyone kickstarted any opensource adapter???

The Tech Art Pro is pretty much this already.



Thanks, ill have a look
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rokaka View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rokaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2018 at 17:38
Does this website https://www.ixbt.com/digimage/canonautosonyl.shtml give any new insights/ideas?

I came here to find out if an AF confirm/Dandelion-like chip exists that might add EXIF data to pics taken with MF lenses.
Anyone ideas/suggestions if this is even remotely possible in any way?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2018 at 20:46
The TechArt Pro sends data for EXIF to the camera. I believe you can customize the set of options and there is some method of selecting an option through the camera controls.
Sony A7III A7RII NEX-5T HVL-F45RM LA-EA3 LA-EA4r MB-IV MC-11 EF-E II TLT ROKR MD-NEX KR-NEX DA-NEX
Minolta Maxxum 600si
Pentax Q7 5-15 15-45/2.8 8.5/1.9 11.5/9 AF-P/Q
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rokaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2018 at 17:10
Looks fantastic, but it's a bit too expensive for me. I was more looking for the 'simple' chip kind, like there exists for Canon.
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