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Image editing for beginners

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mrwizard93 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mrwizard93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2014 at 22:03
AWESOME! I can say that I learned a lot just running quickly through the post.

Thank you!
 



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Micholand View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Micholand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2014 at 17:32
Thanks romke for putting in the time and effort to make this excellent tutorial. A very clearly written and illustrated contribution
/Michael

DWEs don't grow on trees! | Posting images&links FAQ
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Atom Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2014 at 02:23
Excellent stuff - thanks very much. I'm pretty much a beginner & it has helped me.

The scope is perfect & it is very well written. FWIW I do have a couple of suggestions that I'll PM to you.


Cheers
Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rovhazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2014 at 15:20
Thank you very much, Romke, for all the effort!

It is well written and pleasure to read, as your articles (and comments) usually are. It is interesting even for someone who is not totally novice, and I also learned few things and tips while reading it (and while discussing with you).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aavo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2014 at 15:44
Awesome! This is not only for beginners, this is great for repeating too. And repeating it Mother of the sagacity. Thank you
a6500 & some nice e-mount af lenses 20/24/56/17-70
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dekie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2014 at 01:44
Congratulations and thanks. A lot of work.

Just one remark.

There are at least two views on non-destructive editing.

1. The oldest one, before the introduction of Lightroom, was the remark that you could loose tonal information in each color channel bij editing your picture.

Each color channel, R - G and B, has only 255 color values in 8-bit mode. By adjusting levels it is possible to clip values at both ends of the histogram loosing information. By adjusting the contrast and stretching a histogram the resulting picture will have hard tonal transitions leading to solarization effects in a print.

Reducing each color channel to 200 values from 255 will already result in a reduction to 8 million tones from 16,7 million possible tones.

In the oldier versions of Photoshop up to version 7 most if not all adjustment tools are destructive. For that reason the pioneers of digital pp developed their own techniques of non-destructive editing, working in 16 bit-mode and based on the use of layers.

Adobe introduced in later versions non-destructive commands, adjustment layers and finally smart objects and smart filters to allow non-destructive editing in the meaning of not loosing information.

2. The second opinion of non-destructive editing was introduced by Adobe with the first introduction of Lightroom. Maybe as a result of the criticisms on the destructive editing tools they argued that Lightroom was a non destructive editing program because the original raw file remained unchanged.

In this article described as parametric editing, keeping the adjustments as a separate set of intstructions only applied with printing the raw file or by converting it to a jpeg-file.

This view however is irrelevant for these reasons:

- Working in jpeg you can avoid destructiveness in this meaning, changing alteration of the original, simply by using a duplicate file. For that reason Photoshop has a duplicate command and it is recommended to use it.

- The final goal of pp is to create an optimised result, either for viewing on screen or for printing.
The second view on non-destructiveness, in the meaning of not changing the original file, does not avoid that the converted jpeg or the final print are destructive.
Despite the fact that the original raw file is not changed you can destruct your final result by loosing information in the RGB channels during the conversion or printing.

For that reason it is recommended to edit in 16-bit mode and in the wider Prophoto RGB colormode.

It would be better to restore the original meaning of non-destructive editing in the meaning of not losing tonal transitions. The second meaning leads to confusion and ensures that people are not aware that editing can lead to information loss in the end result.


I apologize for any unusual or wrong expressions. English is not my native language.

PS A long time since my last post here. Over a year I have fought against ME. A very scary and life-threatening disease. But I'm getting better now. Greetings.


 



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romke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote romke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2014 at 09:00
Originally posted by dekie dekie wrote:


There are at least two views on non-destructive editing.

1. The oldest one, before the introduction of Lightroom, was the remark that you could loose tonal information in each color channel bij editing your picture.

Each color channel, R - G and B, has only 255 color values in 8-bit mode. By adjusting levels it is possible to clip values at both ends of the histogram loosing information. By adjusting the contrast and stretching a histogram the resulting picture will have hard tonal transitions leading to solarization effects in a print.

Reducing each color channel to 200 values from 255 will already result in a reduction to 8 million tones from 16,7 million possible tones.

In the oldier versions of Photoshop up to version 7 most if not all adjustment tools are destructive. For that reason the pioneers of digital pp developed their own techniques of non-destructive editing, working in 16 bit-mode and based on the use of layers.

Adobe introduced in later versions non-destructive commands, adjustment layers and finally smart objects and smart filters to allow non-destructive editing in the meaning of not loosing information.


I was not aware of that "ancient" view on "destructive editing". If I am informed well, Photoshop 7 was introduced around March 2002 and it was not until Photoshop CS ("Photoshop 8") was released (bundled wit ACR 2.x) in October 2003 that Ps more or less got it's present usefulness for the digital photographer, including the 16 bit per channel mode. Before that Ps was not able to do anything with a RAW file, maybe at that time already there were some rawconverters around that could be used to generate a file format that Ps could handle. The number of digital cameras around at that time will also have been rather small compaired with todays numbers (the KM 7D appeared in 2004). At that time I still was quite happy using film and classic printing paper, so the whole "digital prehistory" more or less went by without me taking notice of what happened.

Originally posted by dekie dekie wrote:

2. The second opinion of non-destructive editing was introduced by Adobe with the first introduction of Lightroom. Maybe as a result of the criticisms on the destructive editing tools they argued that Lightroom was a non destructive editing program because the original raw file remained unchanged.

In this article described as parametric editing, keeping the adjustments as a separate set of intstructions only applied with printing the raw file or by converting it to a jpeg-file.

This view however is irrelevant for these reasons:

- Working in jpeg you can avoid destructiveness in this meaning, changing alteration of the original, simply by using a duplicate file. For that reason Photoshop has a duplicate command and it is recommended to use it.

- The final goal of pp is to create an optimised result, either for viewing on screen or for printing.
The second view on non-destructiveness, in the meaning of not changing the original file, does not avoid that the converted jpeg or the final print are destructive.
Despite the fact that the original raw file is not changed you can destruct your final result by loosing information in the RGB channels during the conversion or printing.

For that reason it is recommended to edit in 16-bit mode and in the wider Prophoto RGB colormode.

It would be better to restore the original meaning of non-destructive editing in the meaning of not losing tonal transitions. The second meaning leads to confusion and ensures that people are not aware that editing can lead to information loss in the end result.


Our opinions differ somewhat here - and may be not. I think we put the emphasis on different events within the processing chain.

The message that I wanted to get across is that, as soon as you start out making direct edits to a file and subsequently save that file, you will loose information that cannot be retrieved. It is irrelevant whether the information loss is caused by the editing itself or because of the file format chosen. Additionally, if you save the file in a compressed format, some extra information gets lost due to the way the compression algorithm works. In that sense saving as a JPG is worse then a (not compressed) TIF. But even when you work with a TIF file (without layers) changes in contrast will result in the irreversible loss of information.

Your remark to use a duplicate JPG will prevent the first type of information loss (you still can retrieve the original JPG when needed), but does not prevent the second type of information loss due to compressing the file after making some adjustments.

Therefore I prefer to not do the editing on a JPG file, because after saving it a few times after making some changes, each and every time when saving it there is some additional loss due to compressing it over and over again.

Of course in the end, when all the editing has been done and you save the file you were working on (be it the RAW or DNG file in Lightroom or a PSD or TIF in Photoshop) in the JPG format because you need that format on a website or to be sent to a printing firm, some information will be lost - but only once! I would rather call that "conversion" of the file in a format suitable for further use - a final step that needs to be done after the actual editing process.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dekie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2014 at 14:37
Some clarification.

The current ongoing meaning on non destructive editing is:

1. Destructive edits change the original image data.

2. Non destructive edits do not change the original data.

But you can change (edit) the original data also in a non destructive, reversible way. If I have enough room in the histogram and I shift my tonal values of the red channel to one side of the histogram without clipping values then the original data is changed. But without any loss of information and totally reversible.

Changing data is not the problem, but loss of data. The original meaning of non-destructive editing was to prevent loss of information. Changing a tonal value is not a problem as long as it is reversible. But loosing a tonal value is a problem.

If my parametric set of instructions leads to loss of information and solarization in my final print then my result is the result of destructive editing. It is reversible in the sense that I can use the original and redo my pp work, but with other non destructive instructions to avoid the solarization in my final print.

Greetings
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romke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote romke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2014 at 15:33
That clarifies the point you are trying to make. I would rather define non-destructive editing as a way of editing that is fully reversible - and if you do change the tonal values to such a extend that clipping or solarization occurs with a parametric set of instructions, they are still reversible.

Obviously when you then send the file to a printer together with the editing instructions the result will not be good - but you still can reconstruct the original file by changing the added parameters.

I am referring to that somewhere in the start of the article where I suggest you watch the extremes of the histogram to avoid spikes there as a kind of precondition, because if there are spikes you may loose information when printing. It also works the other way around: since the contrast ratio a printer can reproduce is smaller then the camera offers, it may be necessary to add some extra contrast to get some extra "punch" in a print - what can be checked when the image file is displayed on-screen in the "proof" setting.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hrstrat57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2014 at 21:25
Brilliant!! 5 starz!
A700x2 Maxxum:50/1.7,28/2.8,35-105,24-105D,70-210/4/Sony:18-55/M42:Asanuma 135/2.8,Pentax 55/1.4,135/3.5, Nikon D300/D700 misc Nikkor lenses
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aavo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2014 at 03:21
+ 1
a6500 & some nice e-mount af lenses 20/24/56/17-70
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Post Options Post Options   Quote p-unit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2014 at 15:36
Awesome post! Still reading through it, but I'm excited to practice some of these techniques.
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