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"IMHO": Getting More With Macro

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Wētāpunga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2008 at 01:09
Originally posted by dilettante dilettante wrote:

Excellent summary chthoniid.

I question one part:
The on-board camera flash is typically too weak.

I don't think this is the case. On board flashes are typically GN12, good enough for a portrait or to fill a small room, so lighting a spider at 30cm should be no problem. The issue is directing and diffusing the light to the subject, as the pop-up flash is not well placed for illuminating something very close to the lens.


Thanks for the response- it can be hard deciding what to leave out in such pieces.

I found that taking side-by-side shots with the on-board flash vs an external, the camera would (often) double the ISO with the on-board. It may be sufficient to illuminate the subject, but it didn't seem comparable to the external in perfomance. For night-time arthropod shots (which I'll concede aren't typical!) the on-board flash was even more disappointing.

I agree that the position the flash doesn't help- you have a very restrictive zone to illuminate and this is pretty frustrating. This low angle can also accentuate dark shadow areas. You've got no options to change the flash angle.

So I'm a strong advocate for using an external flash for macro-photography .
α1, α7cii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote BackToSlr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2008 at 01:46
Originally posted by chthoniid chthoniid wrote:

Originally posted by dilettante dilettante wrote:

Excellent summary chthoniid.

I question one part:
The on-board camera flash is typically too weak.

I don't think this is the case. On board flashes are typically GN12, good enough for a portrait or to fill a small room, so lighting a spider at 30cm should be no problem. The issue is directing and diffusing the light to the subject, as the pop-up flash is not well placed for illuminating something very close to the lens.


Thanks for the response- it can be hard deciding what to leave out in such pieces.

I found that taking side-by-side shots with the on-board flash vs an external, the camera would (often) double the ISO with the on-board. It may be sufficient to illuminate the subject, but it didn't seem comparable to the external in perfomance. For night-time arthropod shots (which I'll concede aren't typical!) the on-board flash was even more disappointing.

I agree that the position the flash doesn't help- you have a very restrictive zone to illuminate and this is pretty frustrating. This low angle can also accentuate dark shadow areas. You've got no options to change the flash angle.

So I'm a strong advocate for using an external flash for macro-photography .


Excellent article chthoniid.

I would add some sample pictures using the recommended techniques. That would let newbies gauge for themselves, the advantages for each one of them. Ideally the same picture is shot using different techniques, but just adding existing samples will do too.

Another interesting aspect would be adding the tripod choice related section.

Thanks for the work.

Cheers,

N
Sony + Minolta + NEX stuff...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote momech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2008 at 01:55
I was surprised that you didn't mention the use of TCs, sometimes in combination with extension tubes, in the magnification discussion. I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of set up, but I know some do use it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dilettante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2008 at 09:38
Originally posted by chthoniid chthoniid wrote:


So I'm a strong advocate for using an external flash for macro-photography .


Oh yes, no arguments from me with any of that. Using on board flash is not to be recommended for macro. But it's not the weakness of the flash that's the problem, that was my pedantic point.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2008 at 08:34
Originally posted by Dinostrich Dinostrich wrote:

Worth bearing in mind the benefits that can accrue from using either the AngleFinder Vn or the Magnifier Vn in certain circumstances.


Yes, fwiw I have a magnifier. It's a great tool to have when you really want to hit your chosen focus point with more precision. Sometimes it can make a shot.

The angle-finder is also quite handy if you're doing shots from angles close to the ground.

I did ponder discussing them in the article . But felt that keeping the opening post 'tightly themed' was better.
α1, α7cii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2008 at 00:42
I just took possession of a 49-55mm coupling ring and was trying it out on my Sony 100/2.8 Macro - without a coupled reversed lens I can fill the frame with 22mm of a ruler - by reversing a Pentax 50/1.7 on the front of the lens I can get down to 6.5mm (well over 3:1 - not far off 4:1).

Has to be said that DoF is rather thin at that distance though, and there is not much in the way of working distance from the subject...
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2008 at 01:45
Originally posted by BackToSlr BackToSlr wrote:

...

I would add some sample pictures using the recommended techniques. That would let newbies gauge for themselves, the advantages for each one of them. Ideally the same picture is shot using different techniques, but just adding existing samples will do too.

Another interesting aspect would be adding the tripod choice related section.

Thanks for the work.

Cheers,

N


Thanks- I had pondered including test shots. The problem though is that I've been 'cajoled' since January to write something up , and test shots would have postponed (probably indefinitely) the piece.

Plus a lot depends on context. A bellows shot should surpass many of the other techniques in IQ but it may be impractical (or just not feasible) in many cases. Setting up a bellows in the middle of the night in NZ bush to get a spider moving around in her web, presents some logistical challenges I'm not sure could handle. Of course, some people used to use bellows for spider shots in the bush, so it's not impossible.

If the technique requires getting really close to the subject, (coupled lenses, some reversed lenses), then again- irrespective of image quality- this may not be practical for the subjects.

Not that I'd want to discourage people posting such test shots , just that there's a lot more to selecting a macro-method than the image quality.

Tripod choice is alo intersting- all I can say is that I'd look for something that can support a lot of weight (once you add macro racks and hang things off the end of your lens, it pressures the head-performance.
Going low is good- how parralel can you get the legs to the ground. And some macro tripods have the added feature you can mount the camera on the bottom of the centre-mount rather than the top.

So far I've been well served by the Cullmann 3350, but I wish it had a rotating mechanism to move the centre column up or down. It works with a release switch to pull it up or down in a less than smooth 'jerk'. Other than that- it's been pretty good.






α1, α7cii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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Post Options Post Options   Quote albnok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2008 at 07:16
I can't seem to get the aperture to hold when pressing the DOF Preview button and the lens release button on my Minolta 50mm F1.4 and Sony A700. I thought this technique only applies for Canon lenses?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dogears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2008 at 07:41
Originally posted by chthoniid chthoniid wrote:

<snip> ... just that there's a lot more to selecting a macro-method than the image quality.


Well put :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2008 at 08:02
Originally posted by albnok albnok wrote:

I can't seem to get the aperture to hold when pressing the DOF Preview button and the lens release button on my Minolta 50mm F1.4 and Sony A700. I thought this technique only applies for Canon lenses?


Hmm, I haven't tried with the α700, but it seemed to work with the α100 when I tried it. I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know how I get on.
α1, α7cii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2008 at 08:26
Originally posted by momech momech wrote:

I was surprised that you didn't mention the use of TCs, sometimes in combination with extension tubes, in the magnification discussion. I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of set up, but I know some do use it.


I guess the reason being that adding TC's to the setup still isn't very common. Obviously the optical quality of the TC would have to be taken into account, and I'm not sure what the gain is compared say, to just getting a longer extension tube.

That said, I'd be interested to learn of other people's experience with this setup . I've never attempted using a TC to increase magnification.
α1, α7cii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polyglot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 March 2008 at 23:51
The gain being that you don't need to get closer for that additional magnification. And if you have a long macro lens (e.g. 180mm), the extension tubes have very little effect whereas a TC will still get you 1.4x or 2x - with quality loss but perhaps no/not-much more loss than would be had by focusing closer than the lens was designed to.

Can't say it's something I've done though as 1:1 has been enough for me so far. I'll certainly be trying extension tubes first though when I do need the extra.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2008 at 00:01

Yep, a 1.4 TC on a 200 macro is actually very sharp. Manual focus, but worth trying. Happy to provide examples if it's helpful
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2008 at 05:01
Originally posted by chthoniid chthoniid wrote:

Originally posted by albnok albnok wrote:

I can't seem to get the aperture to hold when pressing the DOF Preview button and the lens release button on my Minolta 50mm F1.4 and Sony A700. I thought this technique only applies for Canon lenses?


Hmm, I haven't tried with the α700, but it seemed to work with the α100 when I tried it. I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know how I get on.


I reversed a beercan successfully with the α700, and the aperture could be manually fixed by pressing the DOF and lens release button at the same time. It was trickier than the α100 and took a couple of goes to get right.
α1, α7cii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 & 100-400/4.5-5.6; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Sony 135/2.8 STF
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