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IMPORTANT: 7D / 5D adjustment program (2186)

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kiklop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2007 at 16:17
Originally posted by dudu75 dudu75 wrote:


Won't we need special dedicated tools in addtion to the provided program ?

This software (along with repair manuals) are only a part of tools / requirements needed to deal with our cameras. Some features can be tweaked just fine (as flash exposure), some may require additional tools or various DIY alternatives and some will require a lot more.
But, that's a good start to part with; now is the time to see if "our community" is knowledgeable, interested and willing to do something with these.
Unfortunately, Minolta users base isn't near that wide and powerful as Canon one for example, otherwise this may serve for some reverse engineering work as well which may eventually result in hacked firmware for example.
We certainly need more time to see if these will be of any help other than just pure curiosity.

Edited by Kiklop - 22 January 2007 at 16:30
 



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jstartin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jstartin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2007 at 17:05
Originally posted by dudu75 dudu75 wrote:


Won't we need special dedicated tools in addtion to the provided program ?


I am sure that for some adjustments the answer will be "yes".

I am also sure that for some important adjustments the equipment will not have to be absolutely the same as specified in the KM service manuals, and that the correct functions will be provided by equipment already in non-KM repairer's workshops, or elsewhere.

Calibrated light sources and a focus target that is collimated to appear to be at infinity can probably be found in university teaching laboratories and non-KM camera workshops.

The master lens and master body appear to be a standard 50/1.7 and body in ex-factory condition, used for comparison.

The "plates" for AF pitch and yaw actually look like simple masks to cover most of the AF points, leaving just the critical ones exposed; some DIY substitute could be arranged. We need to know what the "AF Y/P jig" is and does, exactly, or find a different way to monitor this adjustment.

With a bit of thought and experiment alternative focus targets can be designed and printed.

Perhaps it would now be useful to seek out specifications for some of the other instruments - shutter tester, luminance box L-2101/2111 and HIT I/O tester seem to be the main candidates. And, of course, the official Minolta vibrator ;-)

I do hope that nobody is going to leap in and make irreversible changes, but the fact that this program has become publicly available must make the long term prospect for our cameras a bit brighter - as long as that cam/gear widget that works the shutter doesn't jam!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2007 at 21:21
Now I finished first testing of 2186 for 5D, function "EZ"
First, I must say, that 2186 is very dangerous program!
Some parameters I did not return to previous values. But my camera work :)

using MS Word I create document with series of lines (width 6 pt and length = paper length = standart A4) I have 4 copies (for diagonal AF points).

After clicking "EZ" we can choose mode: Adjust or Check.
I dont know how to work with mode named "Adjust", I can see error message (I dont remember, but something about "illegal R value")

Mode "Check" very interesting mode.
1st step. I setup camera, tripod, and chart 1 - paper with vertical lines
for "3,4,6 island", second step - I was rotate camera 90 degrees, for using horizontal lines (5 island)
and I was used 4 copies for 1,7 and 2,8 island groups.

After that I check FF/BF. It was very improbably. Central point is ok, but all diagonal can not focus to chart.

2nd step. I don't use focus ring for focusing, chart was unfocused, after that all AF points have FF.

3rd step. I change distance from camera to chart to 60 or 70 cm, for better manual focussing. After precise focusing and check all Island, I have good working central point, up|down point, left point with FF, top-left terrible FF, right point - small FF. And sometimes camera connot focus by using diagonal points.

Wow! I write it. Who want to repeat my experiment? :)

P.S. Shift values work. But I dont know how to use it. I think that we must use some values (not all) from calculated values to adjust AF.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KonicaA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2007 at 21:43
Kiklop,
I have adjusted the flash settings and as far as I can tell, it has gotten better. On the error 58 discussion, never ever had a black frame on the memory card, only an instance where the camera got hot and the viewfinder went black. I let it cool down for five minutes and it never happened again.
Sony A77ii | Sigma APO 75-300 F4-5.6 | Minolta 70-210 F4 | Tamron 18-250 F3.5-6.3 Di |Minolta 35-70 F4 | Minolta 100-200 F4.5 | Sigma 18-125 F3.5-5.6

http://www.flickr.com/people/imagesbykeith/
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Post Options Post Options   Quote photoclubalpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2007 at 23:05
I do not intend to try this program at all, by the way, my cameras work well enough as it is. The target distance you should use is approx 2 metres (just under) not 60-70cm - the curvature of field of the 50mm f1.7 lens at 60-70cm will mean that you can not possibly get a perfect response from the centre sensor and the outer ones at the same time.

The reason the 1.9xx metre focusing distance is used is that it's as far as they can get in a workshop, and the flatness of field is sufficiently close to its infinity/middle distance curvature to be accurate for calibration.

You can't possibly run tests at 60-70cm unless you use a slightly dished target, or calculate an amount to move the target BACK when you swing the camera to aim the outer sensors at it.

David
Minolta Club of Great Britain - surviving the APOcalypse!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2007 at 23:10
I did received few questions on how to turn your camera in adjustment mode. Here is the procedure as described in repair manuals:

With the camera turned OFF and set to M (manual) mode press and hold the following button (you need to hold these pressed at the same time !)

- up controller key
- menu button
- half press the shutter

Again, while keeping pressed all buttons mentioned tutn the camera on.

It is most likely that windows will ask you to install drivers the first time you connect your camera turned on in adjustment mode. Use usb drivers from the usb2 menu.

Edited by Kiklop - 23 January 2007 at 17:48
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote eyesthruthelens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 07:24
Hi,
Is there a way to improve AF speed using this program?
Sony A100 has a faster and more accurate AF as compare to KM5D or 7D. Is there any adjustment in this program to improve the AF speed and accuracy?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahalilag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 17:43
So, is it possible to fix flash level (underexposure) with the program, without any tools?

My KM5D constantly underexposes (my guess is 5 or 6 stops) with 3600 HS.

I am not happy to send it to service (it takes too long).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 18:15
Originally posted by ahalilag ahalilag wrote:

So, is it possible to fix flash level (underexposure) with the program, without any tools?

My KM5D constantly underexposes (my guess is 5 or 6 stops) with 3600 HS.

I am not happy to send it to service (it takes too long).


5-6 stops ? that's not possible IMHO and if true than somethings wrong with either your camera or flash (or communication between them.

But, i can confirm that we can tweak flash exposure.
I done it with my 7D :) adjusted gain for +0.66 (as described in 2181 Supplementary Information) and i can report that my initial testing do show much, much better flash performance (Sony 5600 with 7D).
I will test this further but so far my wireless and on board flash performance is just about the same (i had good flash exposure in wireless but underexposure 1-2 ev stops with flash on the camera before the adjustement).




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Post Options Post Options   Quote ahalilag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 18:37
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

Originally posted by ahalilag ahalilag wrote:

So, is it possible to fix flash level (underexposure) with the program, without any tools?

My KM5D constantly underexposes (my guess is 5 or 6 stops) with 3600 HS.

I am not happy to send it to service (it takes too long).


5-6 stops ? that's not possible IMHO and if true than somethings wrong with either your camera or flash (or communication between them.

But, i can confirm that we can tweak flash exposure.
I done it with my 7D :) adjusted gain for +0.66 (as described in 2181 Supplementary Information) and i can report that my initial testing do show much, much better flash performance (Sony 5600 with 7D).
I will test this further but so far my wireless and on board flash performance is just about the same (i had good flash exposure in wireless but underexposure 1-2 ev stops with flash on the camera before the adjustement).


Sorry for long quote, here is detail:
When I said 5 to 6 stops it was my wild guess. The proper statement is that it does not expose at all. I see pre-flash but nothing happens after that, the pic is totally dark.
I have tried all possible combinations: TTL/ADI Flash combination, used different lenses (24-105D and 50 F1.7 to name few), used different modes, distances, flash compensation, etc and nothing worked, there was no difference.
The camera and the flash clearly "see" each other (flash zooms when I zoom the lens for example).

I also have film body, Maxxum 7 and the 3600 HS flash works with no problems.

I may try to go to the store and see if any other flash works. That at least would isolate problem.

Edited by ahalilag - 23 January 2007 at 18:40
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 18:52
Then, something is wrong with the flash + camera combination but this certainly isn't what the adjustment program can fix IMHO.
Good luck and keep us informed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vedran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 19:05
Originally posted by ahalilag ahalilag wrote:


The proper statement is that it does not expose at all. I see pre-flash but nothing happens after that, the pic is totally dark.


Same thing happened to my friend, borrowed me new flash that he bought the day before and didn't work. Flash was visible sometimes but the photo remained the same like there was no flash at all. The problem was in flash unit since everything worked well with the other flash unit. You should ask them to give you a new unit..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fecuska Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 19:18
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:


But, i can confirm that we can tweak flash exposure.
I done it with my 7D :) adjusted gain for +0.66 (as described in 2181 Supplementary Information) and i can report that my initial testing do show much, much better flash performance (Sony 5600 with 7D).
I will test this further but so far my wireless and on board flash performance is just about the same (i had good flash exposure in wireless but underexposure 1-2 ev stops with flash on the camera before the adjustement).


Wow, this is a great piece of news! My 5600 HS(D) works perfectly with A2 and underexposures with 7D, thus i did not want to send it for (re)calibration. Now we can recalibrate the body (and it is a reversible way)!
Thank you, Kiklop, for your excellent investigation in this topic!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bharnois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2007 at 21:38
I got it to run OK. There are some automatic adjustments that require no special equipment and seem to simply require selecting the item for automatic calibration.

Pretty sure you can safely do:

AS Frequency
AS Gyro
AS Servo

Since I've done it with no ill effects. I'm still not going to encourage anyone though.

Check the dependency chart as you should do all 3 as it suggests and in the order it shows.

There were no error codes in the table after 26K actuations.

Too chicken for anything else.



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