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IMPORTANT; First frame black issue

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paulofessel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote paulofessel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 02:19
Babelfish gave me a fairly decent translation of the text into english, and from the information I've read seems that when you send your camera into service the culprit for the defect will be replaced by a redesigned and corrected part (2181-0500-02 replaces 2181-0500-01), making our cameras perfectly usable for years to come. OTOH, who knows whether there are more project problems just waiting for us in these years to come... :(

Moreover, those who have already sent their cameras near march 2006 - when parts were lacking all over - and are experiencing the BF problem again had probably the shutter assembly replaced by the faulted version of the mechanism which hadn't the correction applied at the time. So when sending our cameras to be serviced, it would be interesting to know which part numbers our service shops are using now.

Something like this raises yet another question: why redesigning the shutter mecanism from scratch, instead of using the time-proven shutters of Maxxum 7 and Maxxum 9 (or even 700si and 800si) ?

[]'s
Paulo

Edited by paulofessel - 04 January 2007 at 02:59
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jaje View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jaje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 04:56
Originally posted by paulofessel paulofessel wrote:

why redesigning the shutter mecanism from scratch, instead of using the time-proven shutters of Maxxum 7 and Maxxum 9 (or even 700si and 800si) ?

[]'s
Paulo


Hi Paulo,

I remember David Kilpatrick saying he talked to some Minolta engineers who said they needed to design a special shutter --> smaller, lighter, gentler --> to avoid problems with anti-shake.

Jay
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 07:58
As I understand it correctly this problem was not rectified until sony bought KM's camera stock. I am lucky (or maybe not) that I have not experienced this problem. I have extended warranty, I wonder what they will say when I tell them that the manufacturer screwed up and I would like my components replaced before the problem exists.

"It is stated that, irrespective of use, eventually all or most 5D and 7D bodies will fail from the same error, the statement made is that 1 in 4 so far already seems to have been coming back for repair. The problem is a design problem, every camera will eventually fail due to it."

There is no question form the memo that we need to do something. I hope that someone from Sony is reading this.

While it is in getting repaired wouldn't it be nice if they could "upgrade" the sensor to the new a100 ;)
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Turerkan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Turerkan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 09:18
Originally posted by wass wass wrote:

the statement made is that 1 in 4 so far already seems to have been coming back for repair. The problem is a design problem, every camera will eventually fail due to it.


then the life expectancy for a lucky camera is far below 100k..

man i got 22k shots already.. i can't afford a new body, and i don't expect turkish KM service to be of use. i have to sit and wait for my cam to die slowly :(

Edited by Turerkan - 04 January 2007 at 09:19
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jstartin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 10:34

I had a question. I have had about 2 or so black frames happen, i turn off the camera and turn it back on and its good to go. However...its obviously happening. I am scared it is going to get worse, it is still under warranty, do you think I should try to have it repaired even though I doubt they would be able to recreate the problem, just if they see that this part is in it?


According to the service manuals the camera log errors internally. The log can be read by a service agent with the correct software. Failure of the shutter to actuate within a reasonable time, which must be what causes the "first shot black problem", is Error 58.

So, there should be no need for the error to be repeated in test for service personnel to "believe" that it is a problem - they should just read the log. They should be able to tell if you have had it happen just once.

I've got 2 months left on my warrenty and i'm seriously thinking about just sending my 7D away and telling them i've had this problem, even though i haven't. They clearly know the problem is there and probably don't even test for it anymore. This way it's fixed and i don't spend my days wondering when it will happen.


They only have to check the camera error log!
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paulofessel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote paulofessel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 11:13
Originally posted by Turerkan Turerkan wrote:


man i got 22k shots already.. i can't afford a new body, and i don't expect turkish KM service to be of use. i have to sit and wait for my cam to die slowly :(


Turerkan, see this link. There is always the alternative to send your camera to the E.U. or United States. The advantage to the U.S. solution is its relatively low cost.

Moreover, when did you get your camera? Did you get it new or otherwise? If it's not new, do you know whether the camera has already been into a KM service shop?

[]'s
Paulo
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Turerkan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Turerkan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 11:50
paulofessel: i got my camera at 2005's summer (if i recall correctly) and it has never seen KM service:(
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:27
Just two thoughts i've been thinkig of.

Did you noticed the date of this article? It has taken more than one month before most of us has seeing this; to make things even more complicated Japanese market and users communities is another one that is almost in a whole new dimension. Who knows, maybe folks in Japan have already resolved this ? --of course just my speculation.
That's one of the shortcoming of having smaller customers base (compared to Canon for example) and separated communities with almost no info exchange.

And yet another speculation; there has been a rumor that KM has reached high development status of 7D replacement and many of us have hoped that we may actually see this body under Sony name. Well, if this was true (and i tend to believe it was) then it's pretty logical that Sony didn't want to release a new "problematic" body but has rather decided to make a new body from the scratch. The worst thing for Sony would be releasing a body with unreliable parts and design.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote paulofessel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:27
I suggest you try to talk to your local KM service representative. If it's useless, then sending the camera to the EU or the US may be an option.

The only time I had to use Sony-KM's service here in Brazil they were very helpful and repaired the camera as soon as the parts arrived - in the case, the shutter button assembly of Maxxum 700si. I'll check here if they already know about BF problem.

[]'s
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sanjuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:31
This error 58 is soundidng like our digital cancer.
I have not experienced that but if all bodies will have it then maybe I should sell it, my warranty is out and to repair it will cost a lot here, for sure.

I just hope Sony release another DSLR so I could change....
Rgds
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:42
Originally posted by Sanjuro Sanjuro wrote:

I just hope Sony release another DSLR so I could change....

That's actually another solution that i would like to see; Sony releases a new body in the "7D class" and offer a significant discount for anyone is willing to exchange the old 7D for it.
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paulofessel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote paulofessel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:42
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

it's pretty logical that Sony didn't want to release a new "problematic" body but has rather decided to make a new body from the scratch. The worst thing for Sony would be releasing a body with unreliable parts and design.


I couldn't agree more with you. Suddenly, having to wait until february/march in order to get some news about the A10/7Dii/whatever has became a "not so bad" idea.

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Frankman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Frankman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:50
My 5D guarantee runs out in 21 days time. To date, I haven't experienced this problem (touch wood). Perhaps the mods can make a "sticky" somewhere on this site so this information is available to both current and future Dyxum viewers if/when they experience the problem. May be valuable when dealing with Sony service in other parts of the world.

Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alexmts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 14:17
My 5D died after appr. 23000 shots.
At first all frames started to be black, then they became not black but with wrong colours.
Now it's in service so I'm using film :)

Edited by alexmts - 04 January 2007 at 14:19
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