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IMPORTANT; First frame black issue

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kiklop View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 14:50
Originally posted by Frankman Frankman wrote:

Perhaps the mods can make a "sticky" somewhere on this site so this information is available to both current and future Dyxum viewers if/when they experience the problem. May be valuable when dealing with Sony service in other parts of the world.


I hope this short summary may serve the purpose

Edited by Kiklop - 04 January 2007 at 14:50
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2007 at 18:07
I have a late 5D 12-17-2005.. Is there any ser.number #01509070, that would be considered safe and had the new parts installed in it new from the factory? I have about 3000 shots and so far so good.. Am I safe? Thanks George
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ab012 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2007 at 07:29
Thanks for the writeup Kiklop.

I particularly resonate with this:


" Minolta was always in position to relay their business on faithful support by their customers and minoltians all around the word. For this reason I need to express my sadness about the fact that they apparently were aware of the severity of this fault but they kept it secret. Many 7D (and 5D) cameras are now out of warranty and repair cost of an inherited production flaw will now be up to our pocket. Minoltians haven't deserved this IMHO."

This issue (which luckily shouldnt affect me), if true, is enough for me to SAY NO TO KM CAMERAS.

OTOH The optimistic view though is now that Sony is in charge instead of KM things are looking more positive.
Bernard

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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2007 at 10:50
Originally posted by George George wrote:

I have a late 5D 12-17-2005.. Is there any ser.number #01509070, that would be considered safe and had the new parts installed in it new from the factory? I have about 3000 shots and so far so good.. Am I safe? Thanks George

I guess KM (and sony) do have this info, since they know at which point they have started used the new, properly dimensioned part in 5D production process. But i don't have this info and i guess it will be very hard to find it out.

The only date that we have in this respect is November 07. 2005; this is the date stated in the 5D repair manual describing this problem so i guess that at that time KM has already started producing 5D with the new part incorporated.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2007 at 14:26
Kiklop,
Thanks you! I hope your right and they didn't just keep production going as is do to the fact that knew they would be selling off to Sony * all about the $$$ you know*.. In my way of thinking this is most likely the case but I hope I'm wrong.. I my have one of the good ones if I'm wrong! Again thanks for the info! George

Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

Originally posted by George George wrote:

I have a late 5D 12-17-2005.. Is there any ser.number #01509070, that would be considered safe and had the new parts installed in it new from the factory? I have about 3000 shots and so far so good.. Am I safe? Thanks George

I guess KM (and sony) do have this info, since they know at which point they have started used the new, properly dimensioned part in 5D production process. But i don't have this info and i guess it will be very hard to find it out.

The only date that we have in this respect is November 07. 2005; this is the date stated in the 5D repair manual describing this problem so i guess that at that time KM has already started producing 5D with the new part incorporated.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MEANSTREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2007 at 15:55
Originally posted by Kiklop Kiklop wrote:

Originally posted by George George wrote:

I have a late 5D 12-17-2005.. Is there any ser.number #01509070, that would be considered safe and had the new parts installed in it new from the factory? I have about 3000 shots and so far so good.. Am I safe? Thanks George

I guess KM (and sony) do have this info, since they know at which point they have started used the new, properly dimensioned part in 5D production process. But i don't have this info and i guess it will be very hard to find it out.

The only date that we have in this respect is November 07. 2005; this is the date stated in the 5D repair manual describing this problem so i guess that at that time KM has already started producing 5D with the new part incorporated.


I wonder if they will replace it if you just send it in without actually experiancing the problem. I imagine they look for the code error to verify, but if it is ineveitable for it to fail, you would think they would just replace it upon request. My dilema is that I own multiple 5&7Ds... by having more than one body some of them get very little use. I have third party extended warranties with some, but I'm not sure if those places will have parts. I believe Mack does their own repairs but I wonder if they have access to parts. If they don't, they have the option to substitute a camera of equal (fair market) value or possibly a refund. I can just imagine them handing me a body of equal value from a     different system.

BTW... Does anyone know if any 7Ds were made with the correct part?
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2007 at 16:40
Unfortunately, AFAIK there isn't any official policy about this issue( we must bear in mind that this isn't officially confirmed flaw ) and this can lead to different approach about such requests in different cases. They can, but they aren't forced to fix this problem :(
There are many facts that doesn't help us at all; KM has sold the business to sony (and they certanly don't care that much as in case of original Sony products), support network is poor and slow, both 7D and 5D are discontinued products ...

AFAIK, all 7D (if not serviced after purchase) do have the same, problematic part. Only newer 5D are at some point made with appropriate part; this is at least what i have understood so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote puki33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2007 at 16:30
Hi,

I have to say that I'm deeply dissapointed by the current situation with my camera. I've taken my 5D to repair 4 moths from now, mid September ....

After 2 moths the service (the camera has been shipped to Germany) told me that they can not fix the problem, and I'll get my money back. Well... it is January now
and nothing happened :(

I'm calling KM and Sony every week and they keep telling me to wait... :(

Also I don;t know which way to continue. I'm not brave enough to buy another KM camera, but also reluctant
on buying a SOny as it is f.ing expensive. But what than? Should I sell my lenses and buy a Nikon.

I was proud of having a Minolta, but I think that is over.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2007 at 16:46
Yes! That is exactly what I would do.. At min. a Nikon D80 but would shoot for a D200 with just the kit lens until $$$$ would allow me some more lenses! I have been with Minolta for over 30 years..My .02 worth! George
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoreau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2007 at 16:30
I had a 5d repaired in August for this issue, it was bought new from B&H Jan-06 and had about 12k frames. It does worry me a little, my 7D that I bought in Aug-06 is getting near 5k frames with no problems... at least there is warning when you develop this problem and its not typically a sudden complete failure.

I will be much more relaxed when there is a replacement Sony on the market thats bigger than a ipod nano. Who wants these miniturized cameras anyway? They're painful to use with real glass.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoreau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2007 at 18:01
You know, based on what info is availible is sounds like...

Jun-05 Sony-Minolta cooperate in product development
Nov-05 Minolta admits knowledge of design-flaw by publishing it in 5D manual
Jan-06 7D Service manual includes black frame information
Jan-06 Minolta folds, forcing Sony buyout (if they wanted any part of the DSLR and lens mount they have already invested themselves in)
???-06 "Black frame" repairs were still being made using original spec (defective) parts
Mar-06 Sony threw-out all original spec parts, redesigned to rev-02, and issued refunds during the process
Aug-06 Sony repairs begin with redesigned -02 parts

As with this entire Sony takeover, they arent saying squat. Draw your own conclusions.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ouscazz Photo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:22
FYI.

The Swedish Konica Minolta Support just confirmed that they will repair my 5D that suffers from the First Black Frame problem.

I bought my camera in october 2005 and therefore it is under EU consumersrights(?)law.

At first they would'nt aggree that there's a problem with the F.B.F.

They where a little "pissed of" when they read my e-mail in wich I clearly stated where in the service manual they could find the error-information.

These manuals are not for public use they claimed, I did'nt reveal my source (Dyxum).

Is it authorized by KM/Sony to have the service manual on Dyxum..?.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:34
Originally posted by Barsebaeck Barsebaeck wrote:

Is it authorized by KM/Sony to have the service manual on Dyxum..?.

No, we don't have any permission to publish these; but, since KM has proven to be unfair to their customers in many ways i really don't care. I wish it was different; i wish KM has done more for their customers once they decided to sell the whole thing to Sony .. but they didn't.
For those who didn't know that, dyxum had problems with KM in the past too. The reason was more or less the same; we did provided 7D user manuals for download while KM didn't provided them on-line !! And they requested to remove pdf manuals which as you can see are still available for download.
While we are against piracy of any form, there is a limit where customers are forced to acts like this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ouscazz Photo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:47
Thanks Kiklop, I really appreciate and support your curage. Thanks to you, and the information you Dyxumers provide, KM will actually repair my camera!

For all you EU-citizens that is under "EU comsumesright laws", be hardheaded against KM/Sony.. It did pay off for me.
Two weeks of e-mailing back and forth.. and they finally realized that I was not going to give up.. And of course, some threats that I would drag the whole thing to the cunsumersrights organization if they continued to stick their heads in the sand..
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