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Kids - 50 and 85...105 options (E-Mount)

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Rssweetman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rssweetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2020 at 19:22
Originally posted by nixnutz nixnutz wrote:

Dear Dyxum community,

However, if there is someone out there who takes family pictures and, maybe, who is a daddy and as such involved in the action, maybe you have a hint ... :-) ?

Thanks
Ulf


I am all of those things, specialise in child portraits and have a background in child development/safeguarding.

My thoughts are not photographic but rather relate to your other comments about the importance of the family christmas album to your parents and to your taking 10-15,000 photos of your children every year.

If the 10-15k figure is correct, you know you are taking more photos of your children than some professional child portrait artists (ie NOT Venture photography-alike franchises)?

I get that 3&5 are wonderful ages for child photos (less drool - usually! - less random skin dis-colourations,starting to really look individual and no longer 'little potatoes' etc) but my thought is that watching your children like that to take that many pictures of them, takes YOU away from being 'present' with them.

A lot of shy and socially less confident people gravitate to cameras as a 'shield' and my thought/concern is that in watching your kids so much for a photo-op you might not be taking a 'wider' perspective on them and your relationship with them because you feel pressurised to do so by 'outside' parties ie your parents whom because of distance (or social distance!) cannot spend as much time with your children as they (grandparents) might wish.

   I see things from the 'other' end of the scale and know not all children get to experience the childhood they deserve and this might be somewhat influencing my thoughts but if your children are your priority* then spending time with them (ie being present and mindful etc) should always be the priority and not (to hyperbolise) to be watching them at all times through a viewfinder so you can get a photo of them that will please others.

   I doubt this was what you had in mind when you asked the question but if it isn't of relevance to you it might be of relevance for someone who comes after us.

Good luck,


*They should be, however any carer for small children should also be aware of their own needs and resources and to strive to always "fit their own oxygen mask first". Its also always worth considering how our childhood affected how we raise our children and whether there are unconscious dynamics of hierarchies (ie that our parents are 'super-parents' in terms of moral or child rearing status above us, say) that are operating there.

Edited by Rssweetman - 17 December 2020 at 20:15
Sony: A58, A580, A700, A900, A99 , A7s
135mm STF, 50 f1.4, 35mm f1.4G, 16-50 f2.8,70-400 G2,
Minolta: 100 2.8 Soft Focus, 85 f1.4, Beercan 70-210 f4, 35-70 f4, 24 f2.8,
Zeiss: 135 f1.8, 85 f1.4
 



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nixnutz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nixnutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2021 at 22:06
@Rssweetman

No worries, no offense taken, very open, friendly and caring words of yours. This is what puts dyxum apart from other forums!

Yes, at the end of the year some 10,000-15,000 photos have been taken. That's the grand total with the default camera setting being continous shooting at 3-5fps. If I would take the role of an observer I would not take that many shots and often enough single shot would do. But since I'm part of the action, part of the life I find the 3-5fps very useful even if it means that there are many, many pictures taken not worth to be taken if one only spent a little more time on the job. But hey, digital age and I'm part of action - many, many snapshots.

There are days when I take the camera all day with me and others when I don't touch it. For example, I have not touched it today but yesterday they have been over the moon to meet their grandparents (which happens very rarely these days due to the pandemic :-/). So happy that they did not care about me taking some pictures of them.

The camera is part of our daily life - like a watch you might wear. During weekends the first picture of the day can be during breakfast on a Saturday. Say, we decide to have fun one and enjoy a portion of self-made cotton candy? Guess who made the floss candy... On the other day it may be a quick snap how the kids decide to eat snow before entering the car so that I can get them to day care. Upon arrival its another quick photo of their facial expressions as seen from the drivers seat in the rear mirror. That's a 10 seconds interruption while you continue talking to them about getting into day care. And, there are plenty of these moments when you only look for them.

The camera is in the messenger bag with the 35mm mounted and ready to take a picture when something happens. Its just there: in the bag, on the table, somewhere on the ground in the garden and 35mm works with the kids being only 1m away from you :-).

Of course a professional child portrait artist would not take pictures at the rate I do. Such a person would take the role of the observer, wait for the composition to be nice and only then take a picture. I grab the camera out of the bag after giving a hammer to the kids so that they can try to break some ice (outside, winter for us) which they then eat... That's a 30s interruption and has become normal for them. 30s later I'm back with the kids.

Regarding the lens... still undecided: either 85GM or Sigma 105. That's for the kids playing on their own and me having a coffee break in the garden.

Stay safe!

Ulf








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Post Options Post Options   Quote Barrin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 08:38
This seems a lot my experience, apart from the fact that I can have day with hundreds shots (with burts set to "low") and a week without pictures at all.

I have an humble a6000, so my Zony 24 has the same role as your 35mm.
It is coupled with a Samyang 75/1.8, used for headshots, or larger shots when for some reason I'm far from the action.
This would mean for you something close to at least 100mm on FF, but you are starting to go towards and heavy lens range..so be careful in choosing it, in order not to leave it home as it feels too heavy..
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nixnutz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nixnutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 15:42
Ahoy,

Out of curiosity I checked the number of RAW files on disk in the archive:

2017 - 18.900 (birth)
2018 - 8.100
2019 - 8.300
2020 - 9.300

If you start doing the math you'll figure out that I'm good at testing my camera so that I know it works when it matters. At the average I took one photo per hour on each day of the past three years. And the average number of photos per year over the cource of last four years was about 11.100 ... - looks like my estimate was a little high.

Not saying these are all great photos and many are probably not worth taking - but hey, I'm happy with it and that's all that matters, no :-) ?

Lens - yeah, weight/heft is something to consider. But that long lens is not the default and I usually take any 50mm+ only with me whn sure I'll be an "observer": get somewhere, sit down, observe. For the walk in the park it will always 35..50mm.


Let's see and wait. If I ever get a modern 80..100mm and keep it for a year, I can report afterwards.


Different topic: is there a simple way to get image statistics for a CaptureOne catalog? Most used lens, preferred focal length, stuff like that?

Thanks!
Ulf
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 16:47
I took over 75,000 pictures with my A58 over the year I owned it, but most of those were at motorsport events.

I don't know if there are statistics in Capture One. I just paid to upgrade to the current version, but I really only use the free version stuff. I keep looking for ways to make it work better. It doesn't seem to like the recent AMD Radeon RX video cards (Navi/RDNA).

I haven't been taking a lot of pictures of my kids, but I used to mainly use zooms for that. I'd be inclined to use the 24-105 G since I have it. I wouldn't grab an 80-100mm prime.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2021 at 21:16
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

I took over 75,000 pictures with my A58 over the year I owned it, but most of those were at motorsport events.

Goodness! I've not approached that number over 7 years (or however many it's been). When do you find time to check them all?
Miranda F & Sensorex, Sony A7Rii, A58, Nex-6, Dynax 4, 5, 60, 500si/600si/700si/800si, various Sony & Minolta lenses, several Tamrons, lots of MF primes and *far* too many old film cameras ...
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote nixnutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2021 at 21:55
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

I haven't been taking a lot of pictures of my kids, but I used to mainly use zooms for that. I'd be inclined to use the 24-105 G since I have it. I wouldn't grab an 80-100mm prime.


I consider - hmm, plan - to replace a Sigma 85mm A-Mount for AF reasons. I do have the SAL24-70f2.8 which is very versatile and good enough. However, there are cases when I dream of more subject isolation and/or the f2.8 starts to become an issue.

A plain FE1.8/85mm would fulfill those requiremens - but I'm still dreaming about lenses that go beyond...

Anyway, thanks everybody: great input! Much appreciated. I'm down to one or two favourites.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nixnutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2021 at 22:48
... it's been a while.

It took me half a year to open a thread on Dyxum and almost another half of a year to make a decision and take action. Eventually, I told my wife I wanted to go to the local photo dealer instead of having lunch with them. As I expected, the local dealer had both the Sony f1.4/85GM and the Sigma f1.4/105mm in stock. Same price due to a local Sony cashback.

Having read many reviews and the first-hand real-user comments from the thread I was still unsure if I should really buy one of these, and if so, which one.

I bought the Sigma.

Needless to say both lenses are stellar and the weight of the Sigma is a negative. I bet this is what Sigma will address if they ever produce a successor - they did work on this aspect over time, see old 85 HSM - 1st generation 85 ART - current generation 85 DG DN. I'm also optimistic that if Sony ever makes a 100mm lens, they will beat the Sigma at least in terms of dimensions and weight.

Is the weight an issue to me? Not really. So much in the backpack when out with the kids it makes no real difference. Also mind, if I know I'll be playing closely with the kids then I'll take a 35mm with me.

First, /very few/ shots are as expected:

- optically very good, should exceed my A7III sensor/resolutiokn
- AF is snappy enough to track kids that start to run
- A7III AF seems to be the limiting factor

All in all, I'm happy. If that will be still the case in a few months... I shall report then :-).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hezu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2021 at 23:01
Originally posted by nixnutz nixnutz wrote:

Needless to say both lenses are stellar and the weight of the Sigma is a negative. I bet this is what Sigma will address if they ever produce a successor - they did work on this aspect over time, see old 85 HSM - 1st generation 85 ART - current generation 85 DG DN. I'm also optimistic that if Sony ever makes a 100mm lens, they will beat the Sigma at least in terms of dimensions and weight.
There is already Sony 100 mm lens: FE 2.8/100 GM STF is obviously quite different compared to that Sigma 105 mm 1:1.4 DG ART since it is aperture wise much slower (nominally f/2.8, but due to STF elements T5.6), so perhaps it is not fair to compare these two lenses...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nixnutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2021 at 20:27
Originally posted by Hezu Hezu wrote:

Originally posted by nixnutz nixnutz wrote:

Needless to say both lenses are stellar and the weight of the Sigma is a negative. I bet this is what Sigma will address if they ever produce a successor - they did work on this aspect over time, see old 85 HSM - 1st generation 85 ART - current generation 85 DG DN. I'm also optimistic that if Sony ever makes a 100mm lens, they will beat the Sigma at least in terms of dimensions and weight.
There is already Sony 100 mm lens: FE 2.8/100 GM STF is obviously quite different compared to that Sigma 105 mm 1:1.4 DG ART since it is aperture wise much slower (nominally f/2.8, but due to STF elements T5.6), so perhaps it is not fair to compare these two lenses...


My fault: I didn't clearly say what I meant. I was speculating that if Sony ever makes an F1.4/100mm for E-Mount, I am convinced it will be of reasonable size and optically very, very good.

Thinking of what I said and why ..., maybe, I'm still debating with myself if I made a reasonable decision :-).

And, yes, I'm aware of the FE F2.8(T5.6)/100 GM STF. I do own, and love, the A-Mount F2.8(T4.5)/135 STF. I didn't mean to compare the Sigma F1.4/100mm with the 100 GM STF (nor the 135 STF). Those lenses have very different characters and serve different use cases. The different light transmission means to me that STF is outdoor only and summer mostly. Family life does not take place in a photo studio - thus STF was out from the very beginning of my search.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2021 at 08:37
I am hoping for a reasonably sized Sony 100mm/1.4 or 85mm f1.2.
Considering how nicely sized recent Sony lenses have been 14-35-50GM, I hope they can make more with the same philosophy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 July 2021 at 10:18
I would have gone for the 85/1.4 GM for several reasons. Size, weight, native, 85mm is more useful.

re. 100/1.4 or 85/1.2 you probably will get that, but atm there is no objective reason for a 85/1.2 as the current 85/1.4 GM is doing just fine. And I notced you got the Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN for its size - even a small 85/1.2 will be bigger.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote nixnutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2021 at 23:32
I've been very, very unsure about what to choose for a long, long time. I then thought about my use case. When do I use which lens / focal length and why?

I noticed that I do use 35mm/50mm during the winter season when most shots are captured indoors.

During the summer I found myself going for the STF135 or f2.8/70-200 or 1.4/85mm - with the kids playing at a distance. 135STF - manual, hmm, f2.8/70-200, hmm, bokeh, old f1.4/85mm, hmm, AF.

Given I found the 85mm too long inside - winter season - and already at this age of the kids a tad too short I always had a preference for a 100ish mm focal lenght. Knowing I could go for the 70-200 if need be.

Regarding size/weight outside means: we go somewhere and stay there. Which means it is a draw between f2.8/70-200mm and the Sigma f1.4/105mm. Over time I concluded weight/size should be a non-issue to me.

If weight matters, I grab a tiny lens. Well knowing I will sacrifice on IQ. I will not go for a member of the 800g or more league.

Having explained all that here's a quick summary of todays kids mini-birthday party at a park:

- 3...7 years olds running - AF is fast enough (I tend to believe misses are because of the A7M3 used)
- IQ is flawless - but A7M3 is hardly a benchmark
- bokeh - very good for a concentional lens, mind the reviews

Very happy so far.

A big thank you to all those who replied: you all made me question what I want and that was key. I didn't see a major difference between the very, very good portrait lenses in terms fo IQ. I always lusted for the ~100mm as my sweet spot between kids playing distance, perspective effects, and subject isolation.

I'm convinced the 85GM would be a better choice for many others,
and, I'm convinced that if Sony starts a f1.2 series or will release a fl.4 ~100mm, I may regret my buy. But only the day I regret the weight of the lens.

Certainly a niche lens. A very nice one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2021 at 08:27
You thought it through and it certainly something special. Good to see you enjoy it!

Why not share some pictures?
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