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Lord, please remember them

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pegelli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lord, please remember them
    Posted: 12 May 2017 at 16:19
I haven't posted for a long time in Critics Corner but can use some help and advice on this image I took 2 weeks ago.

I had just completed April foolishness and went out with my new (to me) A7 and the Voigtlander 35/1.2 II.

I came across this scene in the local church and was moved by the small crosses (with the names of recently deceased people) and the beautiful large, well detailed big cross in the middle. The attraction was both in the near symmetry of the scene as well as the message in the number of small crosses (and empty hook inbetween).

At home I noticed the large cross was not hanging perfectly vertical so a little photoshop magic now rotated it exactly vertical. Without that the image doesn't work for me.

Now the question is does this image work for you as well, do you get a similar feeling when seeing it as I am describing or is it just a boring reproduction of something on a church wall. I can't judge it objectively anymore, because every time I look at the image the feeling I had when taking it comes back. So your opinions (good, bad or advice for improvement) are all very welcome. I can easily go back and reshoot.



TIA
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nandbytes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 16:35
hmmm... hard to critique this, perhaps would have worked better in b&w. But I am not getting the same feeling as you simply because this isn't something I have experience first hand while you have and looking at this picture every time will jog that feeling. But I do appreciate the feeling you are to convey.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kilkry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 17:32
I echo nand. b&W ala XP2 meaning lots of contrast, and perhaps some vignetting, might be worth a try.
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Aavo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aavo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 18:13
This image works for me as well. With these small crosses not only pic but your local church has made something great. Everything showing movement and share based on cultural way of life as here, is valuable for me. What ever you do with this pic, will be nice for me. The only mind I have is to stay with colored pic, as it makes all this warm, so close to the heart.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Twain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 18:26
Another vote for black and white. Much of contrast and micro-contrast needed. What disturbs me a bit and destroys the symmetry is the fact, that there are more crosses to the left than to the right.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote waldo_posth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 23:43
This is really puzzling - I cannot come up with any suggestions as your image is concerned, Pieter - I would rather make some suggestions as to the hanging of the little crosses.

I would move the little crosses up the wall till they are on the level of the head of Christ - creating for him a field of direct view of the little crosses.

One of the most effective ways to create emotions by viewing images (my knowledge comes from analysing visual reports of disasters and their victims) is to show (and teach) the outside viewer how s/he has to look and feel viewing the image by showing an act of viewing and its emotional response in the image itself. Following my suggestion Christ would look directly at this little crosses and - although being a suffering person himself - would show compassion with the deceased symbolized by them. So it's his emotional response that will become the outside viewers emotional response (and it is of course also a story about the redemption provided by Christ's death).

Now we can move the little crosses down again - and have a second look at your image. Although there is no direct view of the little crosses for the Christ on the cross the image transports something like his awareness of these little crosses. This awareness might not be as strong as a direct line of view but it may nevertheless have an emotional impact, touch you.

There is, however, always another factor in the play: What is the mood, the emotion with which you enter the church or the image? Are you open for such an experience?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 08:30
It reminds me a little of the Epstein statue on the wall of the new Coventry Cathedral, which I visited as a child just after it opened in the 1960s.
It had a dramatic effect on me at the time and is something I've never forgotten. However if you google images of the statue most of them don't look anything special, because they are mostly shot from far away to get the statue at a 'normal' viewing angle. I saw it from below at which it is (IMHO) at its most dramatic. I guess it might not have the same impact on everyone.

Consequently, I would have tried to photograph your scene from below and probably converted it to b/w as others have suggested. Again, I'm old enough to remember when most photographic art books were b/w and most old films were in b/w also, and I'm sure most of you won;t need me to restate how much more atmosphere some of the b/w films had compared with colour. There were some great photographers doing b/w films in the 1940s and 50s, often on really low-budget films you never see or read of today.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aavo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 08:47
Shooting from child eye level can be interesting
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tricky01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 21:06
I have to agree with Nand. I didn't see the image you see, but I think that's because the names of the little crosses are too small for the viewer to understand what they symbolise. I also agree on trying in black and white, quite contrasty with some grain added. Given that each cross symbolises a life, I could not suggest removing it in PS but photographically it is a pity there is the additional cross on the far left and the pins beneath it. TFS
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 21:06
Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and help. This is a wonderful forum

First I'll see how an B&W conversion looks, so many people suggesting that even though I like the warm tones it has now. Maybe some kind of warm (split) toning could enhance the straight monochrome conversion.

Then also I think I will go back and shoot the scene from a lower perspective and see if I can come up with something different or better.

Unfortunately I can't change the crosses (higher/lower or equal number left/right) and most likely when I go back a few more crosses will have been added.

Don't know when I have time to do all that, but when I've taken a next step I'll post the result here.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MichelvA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 06:44
While i agree on the suggestions for b&w, i also agree with you the image is slightly boring. You might consider a light sephia look. You could also wash out the image towards the corners. Another way to get a more interesting look on the big christ figure, is get closer and use an angle from the left - together with a shallow dof. The f/1.2 will do wonders here.
Maybe on some moments of the day there is an interesting light on this figure - so you can make use of that?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote angora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 08:38
my 1/2 cent? agree with all of the above and agree with Michele.
IMHO the key (and only way?) to evoke emotions w/b light?
I would (prob. mess up completely!! ) try flash/natural light/perhaps even light painting -from the side- and indeed try to get closer. if you can read the names, with perhaps even a branch/remains of flowers behind some, the figure would become bigger, thus more impressive -from another angle-?
unsharpness could even work for you?
if the idea is that Christ watches over them, Christ has to grow?
it w/b nice if he would look at the little crosses (puppet warp? ;-)).
like the idea and looking FW!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ND Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 16:06
My suggestion would be to try to shoot from the bottom left close to the wall looking up towards Jesus. You really don't need to have all of the crosses to achieve your impact. Have a couple of the crosses in focus as it fades away into Jesus' face (which will be somewhat out of focus).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Rex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 10:26
When I read your post I only had vague ideas/responses but having read all the comments, they generated a few ideas. First, and you probably can't do anything about this, the "near" symmetry is a problem for me but I am, admittedly, very attentive to symmetry in this kind of image (interestingly, there are eight names to the left and only seven to the right and that is intentional I assume, or a mistake, because there are no places on the right to hang an additional name. Second, size/viewing distance - not being able to read the names on my monitor significantly hampers the viewing experience but I assume that a nice print and close viewing distance would solve that problem. Third, as much discussed above, the image, despite the subject, does not create much of an emotional response in me but I think it is a matter of not being able to read the names and the processing (could be more somber, more moody, perhaps darker - many ideas provided by others above to experiment with in this regard).
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