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Topic ClosedMarket for A mount?

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skm.sa100 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 02:08
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

    Meanwhile they live paycheck to paycheck and need government handouts When they lose their job.


Where did that come from? My usual view of people who get latest-and-greatest gear are pros who run a successful business, 'togs whose employers pay for gear, and maybe youngsters who naturally value glittery stuff more than people who've experience life a bit more.
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macronut View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 02:40
I’m not talking about pros!!

I made a generalization about people and electronic technology. Many people feel the “need” to have the latest greatest, without setting more realistic priorities in their current situation
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Jonas A-R View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 08:03
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

“Technology marches on. How could anyone heavily invested in a-mount not be satisfied with the a100?”

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So little sense that I shouldn’t even bother with a response. Comparing the E mount bodies to the A99ii is more or less apples to apples. Comparing E mount to the A100 is apples to oranges. So is comparing the A99ii with the A100. The “advantages” of E mount over the A99ii are not compelling for me personally, and my point is that anyone with a huge A mount lens collection (like me) can continue taking awesome photos natively for decades to come.


So, the decade old a100 is no longer a viable option, but a99ii will be working competitively for decades?
My point was of course that a99ii might be comparable now, but pretty soon it will be outdated just like the a100 (and the a99)
Surely it can take awesome photos (although it remains to be proven that the cameras will be working for decades, I personally highly doubt it will be the case in general), but so can a100 in the right hands.

Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

And I also don’t place credence with your reasoning of low availability in certain countries. Plenty of A-mount cameras new and used available to ship worldwide From many sources.


Not all like to buy expensive stuff internationally. I just pointed out that the used market might be regionally different and you broad generalizations might not apply everywhere.

Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

Moo. Yup that about sums it up. The only thing you said that I agree with


You seem to be very emotionally attached to a-mount. That’s fine of course and explains your rather aggressive and condescending tone through this thread

Edited by Jonas A-R - 06 September 2020 at 08:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 08:37
Photography has evolved so much that it almost feels like cheating. Technological evolution will always exist. I remember the first Amount digital cameras having bad AF capabilities. The last ones (a99ii, a77ii/a68) are actually quite decent. Not in the same ball park as the latest Emount bodies, but the the first Emount cameras had bad AF.
Everyone seems so obsessed with the latest gadgets that they forgot what photography is all about.
If there were sports photographers in the manual focus era, I'm sure we can still take some pleasure of creating images with slightly outdated cameras.
Just take photos and be happy!
Don't think, Just click it!!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 09:57
Admin note:

This is a general reminder of the high standards that our members expect of each other when posting in the Dyxum forums.


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I've not felt the need to hide anything but some posts were near the line. Pls. remember different opinions are just that, a different opinion. No need to belittle them or assume your own opinion is more valid then that of someone else. Keeping it positive and factual usually gets your point across much better
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 10:35
YES, exactly. Because the A100 was bred during the infancy of digital photography.   I think you’d be better served to spend more time composing your thoughts and reconsidering them before posting. You are well aware of the fact that technology in the A100 is very limiting in several ways. Image quality compared to the A99ii is reason enough to support my statement. Now compare this analogy to film cameras. A roll of film is the same no matter if it’s put into a Minolta Maxxum 7000 or a Minolta Maxxum 9. An old film camera can retain relevance and the ability to produce competitive images. The same cannot be said of the 10MP A100.   But I don’t care how many megapixels will be seen in future bodies after the 42MP A99ii. At that resolution, YES, awesome image quality for decades to come. Awesome image quality indefinitely really. Of course it will outdated in other ways eventually, but image quality can only go so high before it plateaus and the human eye is only so capable. As for cameras still working decades from now, I’m sure there will be quite a few fully functional A-mount bodies in circulation, just like there are fully functional film cameras aplenty.

All too often people such as yourself label other people as emotionally attached. All I’ve done is speak facts and sprinkle in my opinions.    

Edited by macronut - 06 September 2020 at 10:55
Only from the mind of Macronut.
 



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vitor View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 10:42
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

I’m not talking about pros!!

I made a generalization about people and electronic technology. Many people feel the “need” to have the latest greatest, without setting more realistic priorities in their current situation


As a non professional photographer I'm pretty sure we all have crossed that line where we try to justify our latest acquisition with need, when in reality it's a want.

Since I do both film and digital photography A-mount is the only alpha mount that allows me to do that without having to carry different sets of lenses for each camera.
I have a nex-5 that was mainly used for video, when A-mount didn't had that functionality,for which I have 2 native lenses.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 10:50
Lol yes Vitor I’m sure we all have :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 11:35
With the introduction of the LA-EA5 it could well signal that no more A mount bodies are to appear .
So what does this do to the value of used camera bodies ?

I've bought two A mount bodies new , the a100 in 2006 and the a580 in 2010 .
Funnily enough Sony's first and last DSLRs !

The a900 I bought used when one came up for around £800 in 2012 and the a77ii I got used in around 2015 for around £300 .

The a700 and Dynax 7d were also bought used .

The a37 I bought cheep from Curry's for about £200 new .

I bought the a900 and a77ii at what I thought were good prices , the a900 is now half that being an eleven year old camera , but strangely the a77ii seems to have increased in value as I tend to see them for upwards of £400 .

The a99ii was/is a camera I want , new , it's far mor than I'm prepared to pay , and used prices don't seem to be getting any lower .

Given that these two , the a77ii & a99ii , are still current , if there isn't a replacement model it looks like rather than used prices getting lower they will either stay the same or even increase .
Without an upgrade path , prices are down to supply and demand and as new ones run out , demand of used will likely increase .

So will I ever have an a99ii .

In the meantime the a900 and a77ii meets my needs .

I was about to buy an a7iii and the chip to update the LA-EA4 , but with the announcement of the LA-EA5 I've cancelled the order untill it's clear what will and won't be compatible .

I'll still have the Amount as my main system but there's times when I want an E mount full frame for my manual focus lenses that I still use with film .

So who knows what's happening .
see my photostream on flickr;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/
C & C welcome.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 11:40
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

YES, exactly. Because the A100 was bred during the infancy of digital photography.   I think you’d be better served to spend more time composing your thoughts and reconsidering them before posting. You are well aware of the fact that technology in the A100 is very limiting in several ways. Image quality compared to the A99ii is reason enough to support my statement. Now compare this analogy to film cameras. A roll of film is the same no matter if it’s put into a Minolta Maxxum 7000 or a Minolta Maxxum 9. An old film camera can retain relevance and the ability to produce competitive images. The same cannot be said of the 10MP A100.   But I don’t care how many megapixels will be seen in future bodies after the 42MP A99ii. At that resolution, YES, awesome image quality for decades to come. Awesome image quality indefinitely really. Of course it will outdated in other ways eventually, but image quality can only go so high before it plateaus and the human eye is only so capable. As for cameras still working decades from now, I’m sure there will be quite a few fully functional A-mount bodies in circulation, just like there are fully functional film cameras aplenty.

All too often people such as yourself label other people as emotionally attached. All I’ve done is speak facts and sprinkle in my opinions.    


Oh, I see. 42MP is all that everybody is ever going to need. The same was said when 6MP went to 8 and then to the horrific 12MPs with its insane pixel density.
Why do you think they bother putting pixel shift technology into current cameras?

Film cameras were mostly mechanical devices while digital cameras have evolved to nearly purely electronics. Most electronics do not last for decades.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 12:07
Now you are using “need” to make a point? I never said need. Have you compared 42mp photos with 61MP? Tough to see a difference. You can’t use “people thought 6MP was enough” as any sort of logical response to my post. Nobody that wanted to make a huge enlargement ever thought it was enough. Digital was limited and most people could see the limitations, but also assumed technology would advance, as electronic tech typically does. 42MP is outstanding. 6MP was never outstanding.

I knew you’d say film cameras were mostly mechanical. Yeah, pre AF they were. The 7000 (And every subsequent A-mount) could hardly be called mostly mechanical. It’s 35 years old and most of them I’ve ever touched perform fine.   My point was that there will be plenty of viable A-mount bodies circulating the used market for many many years. If you think I’m wrong, you’re welcome to revisit this thread when you can prove me wrong.   Not sure if the A99ii will ever be plentiful on the used market. If it proves to be the pinnacle of A-mount, demand could outweigh supply as people look to get the most out of their legacy collection years from now. If it is indeed the last, Hopefully Sony will make that announce while there are enough in stock that some of us that want one can still get one, and hopefully at a discount.

Part of the problem Sony faces is the price. Very few people looking into Sony for the first time would ever consider an A99ii. The high cost and the ever present “A-mount is dead“ mantra are big deterrents. The technology in the A99ii is competitive with E-mount and competitive across the brands. Also there are a lot of lenses for it, by numerous manufacturers, including Sony. But the lack of new lens releases or any buzz worthy news in A-mount has left the A99ii adrift at sea. The only buyers are people already using A-mount. Virtually impossible to be considered a great success when new customers aren’t coming. Imagine If General Motors only marketed new Buicks to current Buick owners, while marketing Chevy to the entire population.   Eventually Buick would cease to be a good business model and would be phased out.

Edited by macronut - 06 September 2020 at 12:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 12:53
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

Now you are using “need” to make a point? I never said need. Have you compared 42mp photos with 61MP? Tough to see a difference. You can’t use “people thought 6MP was enough” as any sort of logical response to my post. Nobody that wanted to make a huge enlargement ever thought it was enough. Digital was limited and most people could see the limitations, but also assumed technology would advance, as electronic tech typically does. 42MP is outstanding. 6MP was never outstanding.


No one ever?
Here is Ken Rockwell on the subject: The Megapixel Myth

Phil Askey, the Dpreview founder, started worrying about pixels becoming too small in 2006. He led a big campaign against smaller pixels which were based on two equally wrong premises: 1: what we have is enough, 2: smaller pixels performs poorly compared to larger pixels

Pixels are like cup cakes

That line was ubiquitous at that time and still spills over to this very day as people still believe in the false notion about the performance of small pixels



Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

I knew you’d say film cameras were mostly mechanical. Yeah, pre AF they were. The 7000 (And every subsequent A-mount) could hardly be called mostly mechanical. It’s 35 years old and most of them I’ve ever touched perform fine.   My point was that there will be plenty of viable A-mount bodies circulating the used market for many many years. If you think I’m wrong, you’re welcome to revisit this thread when you can prove me wrong.   Not sure if the A99ii will ever be plentiful on the used market. If it proves to be the pinnacle of A-mount, demand could outweigh supply as people look to get the most out of their legacy collection years from now.


Yes and the light meter is also an electronic device.
If you think a simple AF motor compares to a chip and associated electronics, so be it. Time will tell although I suspect that most people will be inclined to not use the outdated a99ii a decade from now, so it will not have big consequences either way
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 13:05
Yeah I figured you’d try to dig up something to disprove a hasty comment that was %100 correct in premise, just because the wording was technically flawed. All while ignoring the finer points in my post. With that post you proved to me that you are intent to see this thread devolve into tit for tat. You took it and ran with it. Gave me the perfect reason to exit. Debating isn’t your strong suit.

The 7000 is far more electronic than it is mechanical. Maybe you’ve never used one or never seen one taken apart.

No need for the mod to chime in again, as I’ve nothing further to say to you. Buh bye now

Edited by macronut - 06 September 2020 at 13:11
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Jonas A-R View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2020 at 13:32
Originally posted by macronut macronut wrote:

Yeah I figured you’d try to dig up something to disprove a hasty comment that was %100 correct in premise, just because the wording was technically flawed. All while ignoring the finer points in my post. With that post you proved to me that you are intent to see this thread devolve into tit for tat. You took it and ran with it. Gave me the perfect reason to exit. Debating isn’t your strong suit.

The 7000 is far more electronic than it is mechanical. Maybe you’ve never used one or never seen one taken apart.

No need for the mod to chime in again, as I’ve nothing further to say to you. Buh bye now


No need to be angry just before I showed your premise to be 100% wrong.
The biggest photo site in the world ran a large campaign through many years disproving your false idea
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