Minolta 1200 Ring flash

The moment you move the flash head from its direct straight ahead position, the body/flash will revert to TTL or Pre-Flash TTL depending on the body.

Notes from the Maxxum 7 instructions since there is very little in the flash instructions:

- With 3600,5600HS(D) and D lens: ADI metering with HSS pre-flash TTL
- With built-in flash: ADI metering without pre-flash
- TTL 4 segment flash metering will be used instead of ADI/Pre-flash when HSS is OFF, bounce flash is set or when an off-camera cable is used to connect multiple flash units. TTL average metering will be used instead of ADI/Pre-flash when rear flash or mirror lock-up function is selected.

These features are probably different with digital bodies so checking your own body instructions may show different behavior.

May I add a query in this interesting discussion.

In my ignorance I assumed that ADI was just a slightly more sophisticated TTL mode.

If I have a ADI capable flash in the hot shoe can I point the flash in any other direction than straight at the subject? Bouncing the light is my default in the field to avoid red-eye and soften the light, often with a diffuser over the flash as well. Not that I use any flash very often.

In essence bouncing this offers the same issues as having the flash on a cable - the camera does not know the distance of the light path, or the intensity of light that will reach the subject.

Does the camera default to a TTL mode if the flash head is tilted or turned?

It's a trivial matter,
Since the MFC-1000 does not have a light emitting part in the flash body, the distance information based on the body is meaningless.
In other words, ADI is not possible, so it will always be P-TTL and switching should not be necessary.
Maybe it's just the same parts as the HS3600 (D).

FYI:
An off-camera operation description for the Multi Interface shoe can be found on Wikipedia.
Multi Interface Shoe

From this information, there seems to be a way to deceive the off-camera state as on-camera.
I sold the 99II so I can't try it.
Nor did I have excessive expectations for ADI.
The D-lens distance encoder does not have sufficient accuracy and is far from the required accuracy, especially in the macro range.

Edited by gigo - 11 May 2022 at 20:43

I checked all of my OS-1100 off camera shoes and some date back to 1988 when i purchased them new for a fortune, and they ALL have this little indent.
Now, this indentation was probably introduced for another feature or need for communication with the flash/body since ADI was only introduced in 2001, how could they plan to let the flash/body know of the off camera position if the feature did not exist. The introduction of the i series of shoes with this was at a time, Minolta was promoting "Fuzzy Logic" ( Kind of an ancestor to today's Artificial Intelligence) as a way for the camera to analyse numerous pieces of Data to help obtain better exposure so this could be a part of why they were letting the body know the flash was off camera. But to what purpose ?

Same applies to ALL the Sony AM family of flash units from HVL-F20AM to HVL-F58AM, they all have the tab on the inner portion of the hot shoe.

As for Minolta units, the 2000i, 5200i, 3500xi, 5400xi, 5400HS and MFC-1000 (only missing a 3200i and 2000xi) all have the tab and some were introduced years ahead of the adoption of ADI. Even Manfrotto WL supports that allowed mounting of an xi/HS WL flash on lighting supports had this indentation. And i also have a Vello OFF camera cable and shoe (all in one) that also has the indentation.

Funny that you noticed the 2500(D) does not have it. My copy is the same.

So yes, you should try the 2500(D) on an off camera cable to see if it does work in ADI.

The topic is getting off and on, but I have a question that I can't answer for a long time.
The E-Mount camera doesn't have an ADI / P-TTL switching menu.

ADI: Pre-flash + distance information.
P-TTL: Pre-flash only.

Is this because ADI has progressed and P-TTL is no longer needed, or is ADI abolished because the disadvantages of ADI outweigh the advantages?
Or has automatic switching progressed to the point where manual switching is not necessary?

I don't care about the method because the results are all, but I'm curious.

michelb wrote: If this oval hole was filled, maybe it would fool the system

I appreciate the information. There are several NON-Minolta/Sony off-camera flash cables available. I'm going to check some of them out to see if they saved a few pennies and didn't bother to add that hole. And, of course, filling in the hole would be easy, anyway. It might be worth the trouble.

It's too bad that the existence of that hole prevents using the flash in ADI mode on a camera bracket. Seems kind of dumb to me.

On the Minolta Off Camera shoe OS-1100 (also present on WL stands MS-1 and MS-2), there is a small notch at the side of the shoe that lets a pin on the flash know it is off camera. See the long oval shaped hole on the right side of the shoe here. This is what is telling the body that the flash is off camera.
Sony used the same shoe for its A-mount flash units and when they changed to MIS, they have so many connectors on there that there is likely a provision for something similar on that new shoe but probably now electronic.



If this oval hole was filled, maybe it would fool the system but i am not going to spend time on this

And just a small correction on something someone mentioned here: The power necessary to provide proper lighting by flash is actually the flash/subject distance. In the case of ADI, and this is why it is limited to direct on camera flash is the the flash is at the same distance as the camera since it is directly above the body.


Edited by michelb - 11 May 2022 at 02:18