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Minolta 1200 Ring flash

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sploosher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sploosher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Minolta 1200 Ring flash
    Posted: 09 May 2022 at 10:50
Can someone please tell me if the Minolta 1200 Ring flash work with the A77ii?

https://www.ffordes.com/p/277543/minolta-af/1200af-ringflash

Thanks


A77ii,A700,A550,,3600HSD,Nissin Di866,Minolta 50mm 2.8 Macro,135,500,Sony50mm f1.4,Sony 70-300 G SSM, Sigma10-20,Tamron17-50mm f2.8,
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stiuskr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stiuskr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 12:30
Yes and no. It will fire but at full power only, I took strips of ND gels and velcroed them over the tubes, can't exactly remember but it seems like it took ND3's to make it usable with the Tamron 90.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 13:37
Originally posted by stiuskr stiuskr wrote:

Yes and no. It will fire but at full power only.


Are you sure it won't work in TTL mode with the correct flash shoe adapter?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 14:12
The original controller for this unit was not capable of Pre-Flash TTLsince it dates back to the original AF series of bodies/flash from 1985(4000AF, 2800AF, 1800AF), so it will only work in manual mode. The operation of the 4 AF assist lights would also be a problem with this. To maximize its adaptation would require 2 adapters: Minolta FS-1100 and Sony ADP-AMA.

It would work in TTL if you replace the flash control unit by the Minolta MFC-1000 unit only which is a clone of the body of the 3600HS(D) flash . The central connector on this can accommodate both the 1200AF and R1200 ring flash heads with no difference in operation.

It would still require a Sony ADP-AMA adapter

You would also gain, Manual flash control from 1/1 to 1/64 and possibility to use the twin flash unit T2400



Edited by michelb - 09 May 2022 at 14:52
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Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 16:19
Thanks for the info, but can you clarify.

The flash shoe on the Control Unit of the Minolta 1200 Ring Flash has three connections. To me that indicates TTL flash capability. Am I missing something?







Edited by XKAES - 09 May 2022 at 16:29
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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 17:26
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

Thanks for the info, but can you clarify.

The flash shoe on the Control Unit of the Minolta 1200 Ring Flash has three connections. To me that indicates TTL flash capability. Am I missing something?







It's a film era flashgun with TTL compatibility on film cameras with TTL-OTF metering.
ie , the 7000AF , or later models via the flash shoe adapter .
On a digital cameras the metering is different as they don't use film to meter off .
They meter by pre-flash TTL metering , which film ere flash guns don't do .
You need the correct controller as shown above .
The last series of flash Minolta did were for both film and digital cameras , the first lot of flashes Sony did were rebadged Minolta's , but they dropped support for the ringflash as the sold a crappy LED ring light .
One was for sale recently , but appears to have sold .
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Used-Minolta-Macro-Flash-hg-MFC-1000-/134104889895?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

I have two of these Minolta ones and a Sony .
The Sony is only compatible with the twin flash , whereas the Minolta uses both the twin flash and ring flash .
The second Minolta one I got was bundled with a Dimage 7i .
I got the lot for the princely sum of £25 !

Edited by neilt3 - 09 May 2022 at 17:32
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Post Options Post Options   Quote amrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 17:44
As neilt3 explaind, it has TTL, but the wrong TTL for digital.

Also, do not mix up Minolta Ring Flash 1200AF and Minolta Macro Ring Flash 1200.
Please read here:
https://www.mhohner.de/sony-minolta/flashes.php?ov=1#macro
https://www.mhohner.de/sony-minolta/faq.php#1200AF
https://www.mhohner.de/sony-minolta/flashcomp_acc.php

I you want an old ring flash that works well also in manual mode you may search for a Sunpak auto DX 12R and the corresponding MX-1AF adapter for Minolta iISO.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 20:21
That explains it. I've not a big flash users, and assumed that all TTL flash were the same.

So SPLOOSHER could get some sort of TTL on an a77II, but it would require some "fancy footwork".

Edited by XKAES - 10 May 2022 at 02:40
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil Wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 23:15
Originally posted by neilt3 neilt3 wrote:


I got the lot for the princely sum of £25 !


If you fancy a quick 100% profit - I'm your man!   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gigo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 23:23
It's 99II instead of 77II, I used the ring flush with ADP-MAA(not AMA) + MFC-1000.
The electronic front curtain had to be turned off.

This is my modernized (for 99II) 3x-1x flash set.


The 3x-1x Macro lens and the minolta slide copy unit 1000 do not consider the installation of third-party ring flashes at all.

Edited by gigo - 27 May 2022 at 19:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 00:33
Just an extra clarification for the benefit of XKAES

Initially, TTL flash was implemented in film cameras reading the surface of the film as it was being exposed. This was done by a reading cell in the mirror box of the film bodies that were so equipped. So this cell would read the light hitting the film surface DURING the actual exposure and this cell would send a message to the body/flash when it saw enough light reflected from there to allow for sufficient flash exposure to command a stop to the flash.
This is what was called OTF for Off The Film. Unexposed film surfaces were matte in finish and either grey for black and white film or beige for color film making this process pretty reliable except for off center subjects or very light/dark colored subjects that would fool the exposure a bit like built-in meters get fooled by unusually light/dark subjects.

Early in the digital age, OTF sensors were becoming a lot less reliable since the sensor surface of digital cameras is a very shiny and reflective surface (that can also reflect from the rear lens elements) which can actually fool the system into thinking there is enough light when there is actually not enough so this is where Pre-Flash TTL was created. The way it works, as you depress the shutter to take a picture, the camera requires the flash to emit a small pre-flash of pre-determined power that can be read on the shutter blades PRIOR to exposure and that reading is then interpreted and a calculation of how much more power is required for sufficient exposure is then made by the body and flash and as the shutter opens up completely, the amount of power pre-calculated is then applied by the flash.

This pre-flash capability is something that actually appeared during the i series of bodies when the 5200i flash was released, it had the capability to do Multi flash during a single exposure but in Manual mode only and with no TTL capability whatsoever. This is considered a gadget but this capability eventually allowed a flash to emit successive flash bursts that later allowed WL flash in the next generation xi series of bodies and also HSS when the si series of bodies came along. The update to Pre-Flash capacity occurred about the time of the Maxxum/Alpha/Dynax 7 with the introduction of the 2500D/3600HS(D) and 5600HS(D) flash units that could be used on the Image cameras of that era. This was considered an alternative way to measure flash light on film cameras so it was an optional setting on them, but was a necessity on digital cameras so it kind of became the new TTL but you need to understand the history to realize the fact that film era flashes don't work in TTL with digital cameras.

As an example, i fitted a Minolta 360PX flash (TTL on X-700, and still working on first generation Maxxum bodies like 7000 but with no pre-flash capability) on a Sony A7r body using the right Minolta FS-1100 adapter and Sony ADP-MAA adapter.
Result: the flash gets recognized by the body so it goes to X-Synch speed in A Mode once the flash has recycled its capacitors, but when you depress the shutter, the exposure is all black since the camera is at X-Synch speed at whatever aperture i chose and the flash does not fire since the camera was expecting a pre-flash that it did not see, it did not even fire the flash but still used the exposure settings shown.

Its like the body is sending an e-mail to the flash but the flash does not know what an e-mail is since it is from 1985 when the word was probably not invented yet so it does not answer and the body not getting an answer, does not fire the flash. So getting the proper adapters for this flash/Mirrorless body is likely to even prevent the flash from triggering when releasing the shutter.

Edited by michelb - 10 May 2022 at 01:10
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Post Options Post Options   Quote XKAES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 02:49
Thanks a lot. Sounds as "problematic" as ADI flash. It's great, and I like it better than TTL or Pre-TTL flash, but you have to have a lens, a camera, and a flash that are each ADI capable to use it. If any of the three can't.....the weakest link in the chain.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote michelb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 13:15
Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

Thanks a lot. Sounds as "problematic" as ADI flash. It's great, and I like it better than TTL or Pre-TTL flash, but you have to have a lens, a camera, and a flash that are each ADI capable to use it. If any of the three can't.....the weakest link in the chain.


AND use the flash head in the direct position otherwise the system reverts to Pre-Flash TTL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 14:02
Originally posted by michelb michelb wrote:

Originally posted by XKAES XKAES wrote:

Thanks a lot. Sounds as "problematic" as ADI flash. It's great, and I like it better than TTL or Pre-TTL flash, but you have to have a lens, a camera, and a flash that are each ADI capable to use it. If any of the three can't.....the weakest link in the chain.


AND use the flash head in the direct position otherwise the system reverts to Pre-Flash TTL


I've never found a use for ADI flash control .
Nothing worse than direct flash , rabbit in the headlamps look ,IMO .
Bounce flash or off camera flash for me , so no ADI anyway .
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