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Nikon Mirrorless FF Discussions/News/Rumors

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lonewolf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lonewolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2018 at 15:35
Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

It will be too bad if this is yet another lens mount. The camera industry really needs to work together more. Nikon already does a lot of business with Sony. Adopting E-mount for their own mirrorless bodies would be good. They could still make their own lenses and adapters.


In theory a universal mount would be great, but i cant see it ever happening.
Plus doesnt E-mount have some issues from having been originally an APS-C format - with wide angles and some difficulties for lens designers?
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5thElefant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 5thElefant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2018 at 15:50
Originally posted by lonewolf lonewolf wrote:

Originally posted by QuietOC QuietOC wrote:

It will be too bad if this is yet another lens mount. The camera industry really needs to work together more. Nikon already does a lot of business with Sony. Adopting E-mount for their own mirrorless bodies would be good. They could still make their own lenses and adapters.


In theory a universal mount would be great, but i cant see it ever happening.
Plus doesnt E-mount have some issues from having been originally an APS-C format - with wide angles and some difficulties for lens designers?

The ‘designed for apsc’ is a myth. A full frame video camera was released shortly after the apsc nexs. That myth was quickly followed by the ‘too small for in body stabilisation’ myth...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vitor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2018 at 19:20
I'm not certain it is a myth. While there is "Fullframe" sensor and IBIS on E-mount this doesn't mean there aren't technical limitations due to the size of the mount.



Looking at a "fullframe" sensor on E-mount we can guess there is shadow falloff on the sensor. This might have been overcome with software adjustments in camera and not visible by the end-user.

Also, some lenses for E-mount have a more complex rear group elements when comparing with A-mount for example.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonas A-R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2018 at 19:53
Originally posted by vitor vitor wrote:

I'm not certain it is a myth. While there is "Fullframe" sensor and IBIS on E-mount this doesn't mean there aren't technical limitations due to the size of the mount.



Looking at a "fullframe" sensor on E-mount we can guess there is shadow falloff on the sensor. This might have been overcome with software adjustments in camera and not visible by the end-user.

Also, some lenses for E-mount have a more complex rear group elements when comparing with A-mount for example.


Of course it’s a myth. Any manipulation of the raw file would have been discovered long ago (the stuff that actually goes on has been analyzed to death).
Perhaps e-mount lenses are more complex because they are designed to a higher standard, or they look differently because they are designed for a short register?
The incredible 12-24/4 would not suggest any major design constraints.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vitor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2018 at 20:29
Originally posted by Jonas A-R Jonas A-R wrote:

Any manipulation of the raw file would have been discovered long ago (the stuff that actually goes on has been analyzed to death).

I wasn't talking about manipulation of raw file .... All data captured from the sensor is manipulated (processed), I doubt anyone besides people involved in the firmware will know.

Originally posted by Jonas A-R Jonas A-R wrote:


Perhaps e-mount lenses are more complex because they are designed to a higher standard, or they look differently because they are designed for a short register?

I don't doubt of the quality of the lens produced by Sony for the E-mount. The reallity is that the rear elements reminds of an adapter.
This is event more visible on the Sigma lenses as they aren't natively developed for E-mount.

Your statement of lenses designed for a short register in digital, IMO justify part of the complexity for wide lenses. Digital cameras are more afected than film cameras by the directionality of the light reaching the sensor/film plane. As a note, there are many short register film cameras that don't require complex lenses.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonas A-R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 00:09
Originally posted by vitor vitor wrote:

Originally posted by Jonas A-R Jonas A-R wrote:

Any manipulation of the raw file would have been discovered long ago (the stuff that actually goes on has been analyzed to death).

I wasn't talking about manipulation of raw file .... All data captured from the sensor is manipulated (processed), I doubt anyone besides people involved in the firmware will know.


Not true, the star eater noise reduction has been reverse enginneered for example. The correction of camera developed jpgs are also well known. However, I doubt it is a consequence of the mount diameter




Originally posted by vitor vitor wrote:

Originally posted by Jonas A-R Jonas A-R wrote:


Perhaps e-mount lenses are more complex because they are designed to a higher standard, or they look differently because they are designed for a short register?

I don't doubt of the quality of the lens produced by Sony for the E-mount. The reallity is that the rear elements reminds of an adapter.
This is event more visible on the Sigma lenses as they aren't natively developed for E-mount.

Your statement of lenses designed for a short register in digital, IMO justify part of the complexity for wide lenses. Digital cameras are more afected than film cameras by the directionality of the light reaching the sensor/film plane. As a note, there are many short register film cameras that don't require complex lenses.


Of course it is more visible in the Sigmas. After all they are SLR designs with a permanently build-in adapter. The size of the 12-24 shows how compact a highly corrected wideangle lens can be designed for a short register. It is impossible if the formed image had to be projected across a mirror box.






Edited by Jonas A-R - 30 July 2018 at 06:46
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jcoffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 03:24
Mirrorless cameras are attractive largely because of their small size.

As such, even if a larger mount would have some technical advantages (which seems open to some question, but for the moment let's assume it does), Nikon might well want to keep the mount as small as they can, and still support a full-frame sensor.

I'd also note that E-mount actually has a throat diameter two millimeters larger than the F-mount that Nikon's been using for decades. So, from their perspective, the mount diameter might not be an issue at all.

Of course, that doesn't prove that they'll use E-mount (personally, I rather doubt they will), but it does tend to indicate that if they do use some other mount, it's unlikely that technical issues with the mount diameter will be the driving force to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lonewolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 04:58
I think its more the mount diameter vs the distance to the flange - obviously Nikon has a mirrorbox in the way so a fair way back.

I dont think its actually an issue with images, more so that it presents some interesting challenges to lens designers from what i read.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 08:26
Originally posted by jcoffin jcoffin wrote:

Mirrorless cameras are attractive largely because of their small size.
That was the original idea, but there are other advantages, like metering off the sensor, add contrast detect to a phase detect autofocus system and the EVF itself.

As such, even if a larger mount would have some technical advantages (which seems open to some question, but for the moment let's assume it does), Nikon might well want to keep the mount as small as they can, and still support a full-frame sensor.
if you look at the images from the video, it seems Nikon opted for a huge mount. They seem to over compensate the F-mount. There is some fast glass, read Noctilux like, pattended by Nikon. Some people even assume the mount could handle a medium format sensor
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hobgoblin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 08:38
Surely the diameter of the mount is an irrelevance. It is the diameter of the last lens element that is the issue. Look at any of your lenses and you will see that the final element is often less than half of the diameter of the mount. But even within the lenses designed for any particualr mount there is a wide range of final element sizes that do not seem to me to be consistent with regard to focal length of the lens.

The register distance is a different matter for it will affect the angle that the light strikes the sensor at the extreme edges.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ABDurbs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2018 at 09:02
I am looking forward to Nikons mirrorless offering for one reason only - Nikon is way better supported here in South Africa.

Sony E mount in SA is hellish expensive and extremely difficult to get hold of. Don't even try buy A mount here, it just doesn't exist. Not saying Nikon is going to be less expensive but at least it will be available and well supported. It will also make selling any 2nd hand gear a lot easier.

I have been considering mirrorless for some time now, and moving brands wouldn't even be a consideration as I would much prefer to stick with Sony. But, Nikon's future in this country looks a whole lot brighter than Sony's, so it is going to be very interesting to see what Nikon comes up with.

I will probably land up just staying with A mount   






Edited by ABDurbs - 31 July 2018 at 09:03
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Post Options Post Options   Quote owenn01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2018 at 16:24
A further video 'teaser' to be found here

Seems like the new lens mount has 11 contacts but there is some speculation about sensor size etc (Pixel count).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote trainerKEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2018 at 02:12
Z6





Edited by trainerKEN - 22 August 2018 at 02:19
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Post Options Post Options   Quote trainerKEN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 August 2018 at 02:15
Z7






Edited by trainerKEN - 22 August 2018 at 02:20
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