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Panasonic Lumix S1 and S1R launched

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ColiNiloK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColiNiloK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 14:16
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

I doubt a lot of people around here have used the S1 or S1R seriously.

What do you mean by "longer lenses"? AFAIK the longest L-mount lens is the Leica 90-280 for US$7100/6200 and that is not that long. You talk about indoor events, that means something like the Panasonic 70-200/2.8 or 70-200/4 also fits. Or are you looking at the 75mm-135mm prime lenses that are offered by Leica and Sigma? Or are you looking at adapted lenses with the Sigma MC-12? So, what do you mean by "longer lenses"?

Anyway, all the reviews mention that these cameras are let down by the contrast AF system. It seems fine for single shot, but less so for continuous AF.

Maybe ask this question over at Fredmiranda.com? I guess more people over there will have used both systems.


Yes, the Panasonic 70-200mm lenses, not interested in those variable apertured overpriced Leica SL lenses, though they are optically fantastic.

The only reason I asked here is that out of curiosity and I like the culture of this forum, it also happens there is a post about the S series too, and my recent experience, so I thought I will ask.

I'm well aware of the reviews that say AFC isn't the best on the S series cameras, however with the latest firmware, many reviewers say they are decent. I have a good friend who shoots Sony that I work with on freelance projects sometimes recently got an S1 with 24-105mm f4 to do video, I was surprised of his decision, he told me it's coz of the ergonomics and video codec, bitrate ( V-log, 10 bit 60P in 4K etc) and the AFC is actually really decent.

I have to say, it got me thinking, coz I have gone back using my A mount cameras(A900 and A850) purely because of ergonomics and got rid of most of my E mount gear. Yes E mount has better lenses optically speaking, however, having used A7III on and off for a while I'm still not exactly that satisfied with the handling, the AF is fantastic, but a recent wedding shoot ( yes in this time it's kinda special) I decided to use my old school A mount cameras for the job. I realise for what I do nowadays, mainly stationary, slow to at most some medium moving objects, a mixture of indoor and outdoor I might not need top AF performance as capable as A7III's, even my A900, A850's AF is mostly good enough, but the handling of a camera body for me is very important, which the A7III lacks a bit, and the S1 seems to offer this, and high ISO- my A mount cameras lack a bit, still good though, which the S1 also seem to have this as well.

At the same week of my shoot, that friend of mine I mentioned above told me he bought an S1 and shared with me his experience. Thus after the shoot, I was really thinking if the S1's AF is good enough for indoor using 70-200 lens then maybe I will consider adding that in my kit, the Panasonic S pro 70-200mm f2.8 lens is one of the best 70-200 lenses out there from what I read online as well.

Edited by ColiNiloK - 10 May 2020 at 14:35


 



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ColiNiloK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColiNiloK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 14:22
Yea I assume so too, the DFD contrast section AF, especially on the initial firmware, wasn't getting lots of praises for indoor shooting, that's why I didn't really pay too much attention to the S series cameras when they launched, but after firmware 1.2 I saw a pretty big improvement from reviews and other forums, thus I read a bit more, still didn't push me over to think about it until recently.


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ColiNiloK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColiNiloK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 14:24
Originally posted by Heidfirst Heidfirst wrote:

Originally posted by ColiNiloK ColiNiloK wrote:

Anyone had any experience using them? Especially for indoor events or comparing with the A7III using longer lenses?


You might want to peruse back through https://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/ as Kirk Tuck has both.


Nice find! I will definitely have a read, cheers.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 18:58
If indoors is important to you EOS R is the best one of the lot for indoors if you can deal with one card slot and 3fps. Their RF 70-200mm is also reviewed to be very good.

Personally feel S1 is too bulky and unnecessarily huge. That said A7 bodies aren't anything to write home about for handling. Nikon Z is the best one of the lot for me in terms of handling.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColiNiloK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 13:19
Yes I played with a friend's EOS R end of last year and I found the size really good, and it's AF great too, but it's little awkward when using that touch screen as a makeshift joystick, the touch bar is funny too, and no mode dial... One card slot hmmm I can deal with it but overall it's flaws making me prefer the A7III more... Sony E mount's ergonomics might not be the best but the A7III is an extremely well-balanced camera for sure. I do really like the size of the EOS R though, but in the end for me, its flaws outweigh its pros( Oh the upcoming R5 seems to fix all the ergonomics flaws, but it would definitely cost too much too).

The RF 70-200 with external zoom design, hmm I'm not sure about this actually, yes Canon and Lens Rental say the built is good but I just don't think it can ever beat the build against internal zoom style 70-200. Yes optically I heard it's great as all Canon 70-200s are, but another super expensive 70-200 with the external zoom design trading size and weight which isn't exactly a pro for me personally( As I'm used to my A mount gear), I must be one strange dude .

I only held the S1 body once, and I have to say it very similar to A mount ergonomics that I'm used to, so it's not really big and heavy for me at all, it's in fact smaller than D850 and 5D4 in dimension, which I have also played with before. Well smaller and lighter is defiantly a good thing, but the handling of larger lenses I think a bigger body is better.

You mentioned Nikon Z, it definitely seems like a well-designed body ergonomics wise, DP review likes it. I never had the honour to play with it, nor I'm a fan of Nikon's menu system or straight out of camera colours.

At the end of the day, I guess it's about whether one can deal with the flaws of a system, and that really depends on the individual. We are spoiled with lots of good choices for cameras indeed.



Edited by ColiNiloK - 12 May 2020 at 13:29


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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 13:56
R5 seems like $/£4K+ body. I might be wrong but my limit for bodies is around £2K for an used one which might be a while before I can afford it. By which time sony will probably have something as good or better. I only like R5 as a whip for beating sony and other manufacturers to do better i.e. competition is good.

when it comes to large lenses the lenses are so big that a slightly bigger or slightly smaller body makes not real difference.
I think the most balanced configuration for what you are after for would be A7III/A9 with new tamron 70-180mm f2.8. Also price wise its cheaper. But of course it's an extending zoom.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColiNiloK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 14:16
Originally posted by nandbytes nandbytes wrote:

I only like R5 as a whip for beating sony and other manufacturers to do better i.e. competition is good.


Hahaha this! I would not have said it better

To be honest, I won't wait for the R5, that's going to be too far out of my range too, plus rumoured 45mp is too much, I'm happy with 24mp and I don't need 8K video function, not even 4k actually.

Well yes true, with a big lens the weight and size of the camera body won't matter as the lens is big, but it also about how the body's handling in general, like button placement, functions of the buttons, availability of physical dials and how your hand fits etc. That's what I appreciate about the A mount FF bodies and the S series cameras.

Yea the Tamron is getting lots of good reviews, and the price is a good factor. How important is 200mm vs 180mm? To me longer the better(of coz not to the point of being impractical), not to mention many Tammy lens with focus breathing issue to further reduce that on some occasions. Sony's GM lens is very good with focus breathing control, and Panasonic S Pro lenses too or even better in this regard, oh and they have DSLR lens style focus clutch for MF and MF rotation fine-tuning, this I guess would make some old school DSLR users happy, all these are actually video-friendly features, but it's also beneficial to some photographers.

I used to have the 70-200 GM, with A7III it works well and it's a good lens, just wish A7III's handling with that is better. Now since I went back with A mount and primes I think most of the time I can get away with it, just occasionally the convenience factor does make things easier.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 14:39
Originally posted by ColiNiloK ColiNiloK wrote:

To me longer the better(of coz not to the point of being impractical), not to mention many Tammy lens with focus breathing issue to further reduce that on some occasions.
What do you mean with "focus breathing"? According to our lens database it's an internal focusing lens and with a max magnification of 0,22 at an MFD of 850 mm tells it's very close to 180 mm focal length at MFD. So it's not acting like a superzoom which significantly reduces the focal length when you're focussing closer.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 15:03
As a photographer it seems the best reason to get into the L-mount are the Leica lenses. For the videographer the Panasonic cameras have some specific tools available.

I like how clunky Sony cameras sometimes are. They are really made by technicians and sometimes they forget usefulness. I find the Sony menus deep and I miss that depth with Canon cameras: I can set so much more to my liking with Sony. I can understand they are overwhelming, but they are also very useful.

The Canon EOS R is a really nice camera. It is a well rounded camera. It is a bit like the EOS 650 - a modest start of a new mount.The touchbar was a solution looking for a problem. I do not understand the hate some have for it, I just use it as two buttons. But apart from that and the 3 fps, it is a really nice enthusiasts camera. I miss the fact that I cannot assign a button to switch between the EVF and the screen. I also find the fully articulating screen annoying as it makes the camera almost twice as big and it is not that easy to use if you want to shoot low or overhead. At the same time it is a really nice handling camera.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColiNiloK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 15:13
I haven't dive into that aspect for that specific lens to be honest, so to clarify the statement is about Tamron lenses in general, especially their DSLR version 70-200 f2.8 G2.

Having choices is good, and everyone prefers different things and has different priorites. Just I don't appreciate "only" 180mm nor external zooming... However if they make a 70-135mm f2 however, that will be different story, I must be dreaming haha


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColiNiloK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 15:31
You have some very interesting points that I agree my friend. People always say Sony menu is a mess, but they forget how customisable it can be!

Now the good old days when A700 and A900 still rules the simple direct efficient menu is great, but now days with many functions and features it's hard to design a menu system like that. I found Canon's menu system very nice but you are right about customisability lacking behind a bit.

Now touch bar I really haven't played with the EOS R deep or long enough to find how "annoying" it is, it's just, strange to me. As I'm used to the 5D style buttons joystick etc, and btw A mount joystick beats the one the 5D series I think, I can't comment on the ones on the newer 1D bodies as I don't have much experience on those.

I kinda agree with touch screen and not really agreeing the same time, because personally it's not a deal breaker for me not having it nor I hate it, it can be convenient to aid in certain shooting angles I guess but does add the bulk. However touchscreen hmm Canon got that right and Sony nope.

I think most people who jumps into L mount like my friend did are because of video features for sure. The ability to mount AF Leica lenses sure is appealing, but honestly I think the severity of my GAS isn't bad enough to push me over for this reason alone at least Sigma's offering for both E and L mounts is a great addition to both systems at lower cost.

Edited by ColiNiloK - 12 May 2020 at 15:34


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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 17:25
Originally posted by ColiNiloK ColiNiloK wrote:

I haven't dive into that aspect for that specific lens to be honest, so to clarify the statement is about Tamron lenses in general, especially their DSLR version 70-200 f2.8 G2.

Having choices is good, and everyone prefers different things and has different priorites. Just I don't appreciate "only" 180mm nor external zooming... However if they make a 70-135mm f2 however, that will be different story, I must be dreaming haha


these days pixels are plenty, just crop in
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 18:18
Originally posted by nandbytes nandbytes wrote:

these days pixels are plenty, just crop in
Agree, the difference is pretty small to start with.

And regarding focus breathing, the 70-180 doesn't have it, the fact other Tamron lenses might have it is irrelevant when evaluating the 70-180. But it grows longer when zooming (about 3 cm I think), that's indeed true but is that really such a significant issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 18:28
Not for me, infact I see it as a positive.
A lens spends more time in storage, bags etc than in use fully extended.

Having had the 100-400mm which extends and now 200-600mm which doesn't, I definitely appreciate the compactness of extending zooms.

Also not to mention 70-180mm will balance much nicer on any body than any massive 70-200mm will. Plus I wouldn't need to buy a new bag to carry a massive zoom. Apart from the inability to use TCs I personally don't see any downsides to 70-180mm.
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