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Macca View Drop Down
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Posts: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Macca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 13:53
Whilst not extensive, here`s some idea of what a pancake lens is...

http://www.beanos.com/~tsoutij/wp/stuff/index-of-pancake-lenses

I have the industar 50 and have been trying to hunt down a cheap japanese one with no luck to date and time running out, I`m told the rikenon p 50mm f2 is even smaller than the pentax 40mm 2.8 and sharper, I have a pk to emount adapter but missed out on two so far for the sake of a pound!.

The good news is I have one, the bad news is I`m working so I`m limited for shooting time.
 



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thornburg View Drop Down
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Posts: 3765 		Post Options Post Options   Quote thornburg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 14:22

Oh, I think I own one of those Rikenons!

I'll have to look.
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smcabbott View Drop Down
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Posts: 1800 		Post Options Post Options   Quote smcabbott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 19:08
I'm glad I saw this!! I have a pancake I bought special for this particular weekend. Would have hated to miss this one too.
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darosa View Drop Down
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Posts: 14195 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darosa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 19:22
Here are a few eBay links for cheapish pancakes for UK members:

This Industar 50/3.5 is a very nice M42 pancake. Maybe you can find one even cheaper.

This Hexanon is a bit more expensive (but maybe there are cheaper offers) but a lovely fast pancake. You'll need an Konica AR > E-mount adapter.

Of course, the Rokkor 45. This one is from Germany but good price. You'll need a Minolta SR (MD/MC) > E-mount adapter.

This is the Lomo 40mm I mentioned earlier. This one is too expensive imo.

And this is the Industar 69, probably the pancakiest of them all. I don't see one in the UK atm. Needs a Leica M39 adapter.

Not really a pancake, but rather panfocus and very flat is this one. Needs a T2 > E-mount adaptation.
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darosa View Drop Down
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Posts: 14195 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darosa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 19:23
Originally posted by smcabbott smcabbott wrote:

I'm glad I saw this!! I have a pancake I bought special for this particular weekend. Would have hated to miss this one too.


Good! But I wouldn't have let you miss this.
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darosa View Drop Down
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Posts: 14195 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darosa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 19:25
Originally posted by Macca Macca wrote:

Whilst not extensive, here`s some idea of what a pancake lens is...

http://www.beanos.com/~tsoutij/wp/stuff/index-of-pancake-lenses



Thanks Chris, that's good list: link
 



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pegelli View Drop Down
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Posts: 38509 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 20:57
Just a thought: Can the Sony 16/2.8 and/or 20/2.8 E-mounts be considered pancakes? The 16 is 22,5 mm thick, the 20 is 20.4 mm.

That's thinner than a lot of lenses on the list above and there's no adapter inbetween either.
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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Posts: 15812 		Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 21:18
Originally posted by darosa darosa wrote:

Of course, the Rokkor 45. This one is from Germany but good price. You'll need a Minolta SR (MD/MC) > E-mount adapter.
This isn't a pancake lens. A lot of people say it is, but it isn't. There once was a 45/2.8 that was a pancake lens - but the 45/2 isn't considered a pancake. Here is some information on the 45mm pancake, the 45/2 is a small normal lens.

Here is some information on the Rikoh 50mm pancake (not to be confused with the Ricoh XR 50/2). Looking at the pictures, I don't think it is smaller then the Pentax-m 40/2.8.
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nandbytes View Drop Down
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Posts: 3630 		Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 21:29
Is there any specific rules as to what counts and what doesn't?
And more specifically what about SEL16-50 and FE35/2.8?

I am giving up if I have to ask for the rules again.
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mikey2000 View Drop Down
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Posts: 11659 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mikey2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 22:10
Anand, I've decided (for myself) that the SELP16-50 isn't really a pancake. It's sort of pancakey when switched off (which I love) but looks a bit big when in use.   My guess is that the FE35/2.8 is a bit borderline - I'm interested in what the jury says about that one....   I w

Pieter - I'd definitely say the SEL16 and SEL20 are pancakes (particularly the last one - it looks superflat)


One thing I can't help noticing is that a lot of these pancake lenses end up being quite chunky once the e-mount adapter enters the game. I'm still seeking a tiny native E mount pancake - it may end up being a cash-splash for the SEL20. I owned the 16/2.8 for a short while but just didn't get on with it for some reason. I just can't scrape together the £300 for the 20/2.8


I borrowed Leo's Industar last year for week 50 and it was truly fun to use. It was great to handle such a vintage feeling lens with an ultra-modern camera body.

Also thanks to all for the various ebay links. I wonder if I can get something cheap and fun + adapter before the weekend.... It's looking a bit 50:50...
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thornburg View Drop Down
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Posts: 3765 		Post Options Post Options   Quote thornburg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 22:24

Well, I placed a Prime order for 3 new adapters on Amazon.

Hopefully I can find something in one of my lens piles that counts as a pancake.

My money's on the Rikenon P 50mm f/2, but I might have sold it (attached to a camera).
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Macca View Drop Down
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Posts: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Macca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 23:19
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by darosa darosa wrote:

Of course, the Rokkor 45. This one is from Germany but good price. You'll need a Minolta SR (MD/MC) > E-mount adapter.
This isn't a pancake lens. A lot of people say it is, but it isn't. There once was a 45/2.8 that was a pancake lens - but the 45/2 isn't considered a pancake. Here is some information on the 45mm pancake, the 45/2 is a small normal lens.

Here is some information on the Rikoh 50mm pancake (not to be confused with the Ricoh XR 50/2). Looking at the pictures, I don't think it is smaller then the Pentax-m 40/2.8.


Addy you are right, the rikenon may be smaller than the rokkor 45mm f2 but not the pentax or indeed the rokkor 45mm 2.8, I need to check what I read before regurgitating it!

Are we classing the likes of the rokkor 45mm f2 and rikenon as "honorary pancakes" or are we sticking to the truer sense of the lens?
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Macca View Drop Down
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Posts: 2176 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Macca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 23:32
ps another uk available lens Industar 50 here
http://www.rockycameras.com/-35-50mm-pancake--50mm-35-m42-prime-standard-lens-1499-69393-p.asp

and nikon series e from the same site, more expensive, here
http://www.rockycameras.com/---18-ais--nikon-18-50mm-prime-pancake-standard-lens--mint--3499-71577-p.asp

Bearing in the mind the site and you may occasionally get an elephant gun of a 400mm prime by error!

But I have bought a few good pieces from him overall.
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darosa View Drop Down
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Posts: 14195 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darosa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2015 at 00:09
Originally posted by Macca Macca wrote:


Are we classing the likes of the rokkor 45mm f2 and rikenon as "honorary pancakes" or are we sticking to the truer sense of the lens?


I'm all for allowing these pseudo pancakes! And the E-mount 16/2.8 and 20/2.8 are welcome too imho.

So: what are the rules? As we've never had a Pancake weekend before, we are making the rules as we progress.

I rather like Bob's 'definition':
Originally posted by Bob Bob wrote:

Something that looks rather short on the original camera


I started this thread with a quote from Wikipedia:

A pancake is a flat cake, often thin, and round.
Mutatis mutandis:
A pancake lens is a flat lens, often thin, and round.

So square lenses are out!

The basic ingredient of a pancake lens then would seem to be: thin, flat, short (on the original camera).

How's that for a rule?

And nandbytes: that would exclude the SEL16-50 and FE35/2.8 imho.

As always: the 2nd and 3rd rules are:

Have fun, and
Happy shooting!
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