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plea to Sony/Zeiss

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PhotoTraveler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhotoTraveler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2010 at 03:40
Dunno, Sony has been doing pretty darn good on QC and I haven't seen much issue on Price, as time has passed people have realized Sony prices their stuff the same as anyone else.

I would plea more for a lens road map, and maybe simply just getting more lenses out there. Now with 2 mounts in play, and people debating ditching their SLR mounts for EVIL mounts needing/wanting to have an idea of where each system is going is more important than ever.

Many of us who are looking to go EVIL could just as easily jump to a different brand if the lineup for that brand is better at that moment. Sony has no lock on users with E mount, yes, there is some adaption there, but it's not as big of a driver for many as they would hope. The company that lays out a plan for their EVIL mount first that covers a wide range of users will benefit massively.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote vikingodos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2010 at 07:58
If what you say about new Zeiss releases is true it will be great.
IN 2008 I Bought my first A900 and followed it with a second body in 2009. Shortly after buying the second body I spoke to someone at Zeiss and asked when manual lenses like the 18mm and 50mm would be released in A mount. He replied when Zeiss, Sony and the market was ready.
When I started this post I did not realise how many people would feel so passionate about the subject.
It is very hard to quantify the extra cost for the Zeiss name as they are not considered to be Jewellery but are respected for their quality.
I can produce A1 prints from my Zeiss lenses on the A900 without any effort and have produced a panoramic crop to 1.5 m with a bit of processing.

seems my last bit of the plea may be answered...
p.s.
Zeiss have a great range of lenses of the shelf of which some are available in F/EF/K mount and they have releasing the Zeiss Compact Prime CP.2 cine lenses in various mounts so lets have some more lenses from the Zeiss catalogue in A mount please.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote picman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2010 at 08:21
Originally posted by boyanphotography boyanphotography wrote:

Today I talked to the Zeiss guy at IBC, and he told me that at Photokina they will launch the full MF line of lenses for A-mount (18mm all the way to 100mm (including the 50 1.4), they start with bringing the 100 macro on the market at beginning 2011).

Also, he said Zeiss/Sony will release a new lens at photokina (besides the 24)!!!
He said he couldn't tell me what lens, though he said it's a very big one .
Could this be the CZ 200mm?

Cheers


I would have expected a storm of reactions to this rumor. If true it will be a real game-changer. Look at Fred Miranda'a site, alternative gear and lenses: the number of people working with Nikon and Canon and MF lenses from Carl Zeiss is pretty impressive. I would certainly get the 21, 35, 50, 85 and 100! I hope this news is true because I had been toying with the idea of getting me a Nikon or Canon body just for those lenses.

Cheers, Bob.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhotoTraveler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2010 at 18:20
I don't think their is a storm because it's been heard before and not happened, but also if it did happen, I don't think it would be that massive of an event. Sure it would be nice, assuming we get capability like the ZE lenses (ROM, auto aperture) but I don't think too many folks are going to go crazy over it. I think for the most part I'd rather wait for a ZA lens, not a ZA-M .

I'd be curious what they get called "ZA-M" for manual? A for alpha is in use and wouldn't want to mix. S for Sony is used for the ZS lenses. They might need to get creative on the lettering. But also it would be interesting to see if they are Sony blessed designs by only Zeiss badged, or does Sony get their name on them, and so forth.

Anyways, I'm not going to get worked up till it happens, if it happens.

Announcement of Zeiss lenses for NEX would be far more interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kiklop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2010 at 20:32
Originally posted by boyanphotography boyanphotography wrote:

Today I talked to the Zeiss guy at IBC, and he told me that at Photokina they will launch the full MF line of lenses for A-mount (18mm all the way to 100mm (including the 50 1.4), they start with bringing the 100 macro on the market at beginning 2011).

This should happen long time ago (when a900 came to the market at least) and i'm afraid there is a reason (bad for end users IMHO) why.
However, we can always hope Sony changed their mind and kind of "allowed" Zeiss to do that. Until it happens however i have my doubts about such possibility (and will gladly admit my pessimism wasn't realistic).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhotoTraveler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2010 at 23:38
It's a toss up really. Sony should have allowed such a thing from day one. They could have capitalized on some MF market niche, but also be able to leverage the ability of having SSS with these lenses.

I'm sure it came down to questions over hurting ZA sales, and sony clearly makes more money on those. If Sony had planned to have a big line of ZA primes out by 2008 then I could completely understand (if the PMA07 promise had happened, they would have had 4 out, and probably 2 more in route by 08 (they could have had 10 ZA primes by now)). But soon as that started to slip they should have got these lenses on A mount to prevent an Upper hand Nikon might have had. The ZE line should have sealed the message.   Unless Sony plans to drop 5 or so ZA lenses on the system in a hurry, they should just accept it and work with Zeiss to make them happen.

I wanted these lenses back in 2006, I wasn't very happy about the ZA line back then, but over time I'm glad it's here, and my leaning towards Manual Focus stuff has died.

I would be concerned that if this rumor is true, then it might mean that there won't be any more ZA lenses coming soon, that could be bad. Also it could cause Sony to discontinue more of the legacy primes depending on what kind of deal they strike with Zeiss.   I'm not sure I want to loose the Minolta based macros from the system in favor of ZF based macros. Ground up ZA macros would be nice, but probably wouldn't boost the system. Of course Sony could keep making both, but I think it's in-correct to assume minolta based stuff will continue for very long.
 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote kefkafloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 00:52
I don't think the availability of manual Zeiss primes would have any bearing on what Sony would do in terms of what lenses they would release at this point inasmuch as any other third party manufacturer's options would. A minority of users would probably buy them (even more so a minority of a minority given the users of primes). I mean, autofocus is a pretty important thing for most people. If people want to buy them, let them.

Would a Zeiss 100 Macro outsell the Sony 100mm? Maybe, but there's plenty of other macros out there, AF or not. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PhotoTraveler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 01:24
It wouldn't impact sales much, but Sony could use it as a crutch to not be in a rush to bring other lenses, or discontinue old models. Again, all of this depends on this being real, and what connection their is between Zeiss and Sony.

On some lenses like the macros, the manual focus aspect of the Zeiss's may not matter and could become a better seller than the Sonys.

In general, no, the selling of MF gear would probably not hurt Sony in any way, I'd look at it as a mitigation/matching of Nikon/Canon so their are less things folks can use in their decision process against Sony and in Favor of other mounts. That's where their is a benifit for Sony. Folks want to have options even if they will never exercise those options.

Where I'm sure Sony had concern in Sales is more of a "polluting the brand/image" of Sony's system. They want to push that they have the ZA lenses, which are superior to the ZF stuff, you don't want to confuse folks into thinking they are the same. You see that in a lot of forums of folks deciding the ZA lenses don't matter because they have ZF lenses for their system, thus no benifit for them to go to Sony. Once Sony allows the ZF line into the system, then things get muddy and confusing. Of course it wouldn't be the first time Sony has done that. They had a good setup of just having screw drive and SSM lenses. Then they blew it with SAM, so now a few lenses dirty the system and make it confusing to users as Sony can't just say all their in-lens motors were Ring motors. They messed up the brand image. Of course now with the question over AF and the NEX adapter I've even seen mind numbing questions like "can someone make a list of all the SAM and SSM lenses"   yikes, how about all the lenses with SAM and SSM in the name! So anything Sony does that adds a bit of confusion to the system can be a marketing mess. If they allow the ZF stuff, they will have to be pro-active in defining them against the ZA stuff.

If Sony had lots of ZA lenses, it wouldn't matter, but if they allow the ZF stuff, their will be more ZF lenses than ZA lenses.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kefkafloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 04:19
That's ignoring the market reality that screw drive for new lenses is unpalatable - as much as we know the value of things in our system that are built around it (DMF, AF/MF button). At least with SAM lenses you know what you're getting. Nikon labels non-ring lenses as AF-S and Canon uses Micro-USM to get the marketing benefits of USM with none of the actual benefits.

Truthfully, how many more ZA primes do we need? 20mm, 35mm, 100mm Macro? Do we really need a 50mm Zeiss prime given that the existing 50 1.4 is already a pretty darn good lens? The Minolta/Sony 100mm Macro is no slouch either (then again, it is an old design that could stand to be updated). The reason we haven't seen more of these primes is likely because development money was spent on real holes first while already existing good enough or excellent optics filled in the gap.

With the advent of the 24 f/2, the worst of the gaps are (IMO) filled. The best thing to do is simply make new lenses that don't exist as a Zeiss on other mounts into new ZA glass, like a new 180 or 200 Macro. There's a perfectly good reason why they didn't come out with a ton of new Zeiss primes. Making a brand new lens just to make a Zeiss when you had huge gaping holes at the time of starting the system (which were later filled by two Zeiss zooms, two G zooms, and other more affordable non-Zeiss primes) would not have been the best use of resources.

Now, a few years later, times have changed and the system's advanced, so seeing some more ZA primes to replace older lenses sounds logical. With the 500 f/4 out of the way, I'd be interested to see what kind of primes will start coming out.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote roweraay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 05:32
Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

Then they blew it with SAM, so now a few lenses dirty the system and make it confusing to users as Sony can't just say all their in-lens motors were Ring motors. They messed up the brand image.


Even though I do agree with most of what you stated, I disagree with the above. I think Sony is one of the better players who clearly mark their ring-motors as SSM and micro-motors as SAM. There is no confusion here, since the SAM or SSM on the lens is very clear about what kind of motor exists within the lens.

A stark difference from Canon, where the USM moniker is applied against both ring-motors and micro-motors. THAT is confusing to a beginner.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote klw10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 14:56
Originally posted by roweraay roweraay wrote:

Originally posted by PhotoTraveler PhotoTraveler wrote:

Then they blew it with SAM, so now a few lenses dirty the system and make it confusing to users as Sony can't just say all their in-lens motors were Ring motors. They messed up the brand image.


Even though I do agree with most of what you stated, I disagree with the above. I think Sony is one of the better players who clearly mark their ring-motors as SSM and micro-motors as SAM. There is no confusion here, since the SAM or SSM on the lens is very clear about what kind of motor exists within the lens.

A stark difference from Canon, where the USM moniker is applied against both ring-motors and micro-motors. THAT is confusing to a beginner.


I agree. A friend of mine has the 70-300 Canon lens that is supposed to have USM but in actuality has the micro motor. The first time he saw my Sony 70-300 he was amazed at how silent it was. It is kind of sad that a company knowingly deceives people like that.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 15:31
Originally posted by kefkafloyd kefkafloyd wrote:

Do we really need a 50mm Zeiss prime given that the existing 50 1.4 is already a pretty darn good lens?
I agree with you, but the thread was started by someone who does disagree with you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kefkafloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 16:01
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by kefkafloyd kefkafloyd wrote:

Do we really need a 50mm Zeiss prime given that the existing 50 1.4 is already a pretty darn good lens?
I agree with you, but the thread was started by someone who does disagree with you.


Of course. What a system needs and what an individual user wants are of two minds to me. I was also speaking in general system terms in what holes we need to fill. There's bigger fish to fry than a 50mm prime.

Edited by kefkafloyd - 13 September 2010 at 16:01
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Post Options Post Options   Quote douglasf13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2010 at 16:16
I use the Sony 50 1.4 most of the time, and it is a great lens, but I would certainly love a well-built, SSM version from Zeiss. I'm generally a three prime shooter, and, for those like me who don't need or want a million lens options, a 50mm Zeiss would be great. I think having a full range of Zeiss primes would bring more shooters into the Sony system, regardless of whether Sony already has non-Zeiss versions of those lenses available, and a 35mm, 50mm and some kind of Zeiss makro would probably be enough to suitably fill the Zeiss prime lineup.
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