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prime gaps in Sony FE

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dCap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: prime gaps in Sony FE
    Posted: 01 January 2021 at 14:08
During my research into a new camera mount, exiting 10+ years using m43, and wishing to get back to full-frame, I was able to view the Sony E and FE line-up with fresh eyes. While Sony FE is very well established y'all now finally have some competition now that Canon/Nikon have decided to try mirrorless full-frame too. CaNikon have made some odd lens choices but will gradually fill out their line-ups.

Ye Olde Worlde primes from 35mm film era would have looked something like this set
- Fish
- 14/18mm
- 20mm
- 24mm
- 35mm
- 50mm
- 85mm
Then there are 100/135 and the 200/300/400/500/600 teles (not an area I've really been looking into). Plus macro and maybe tilt/shift.

For those viewing in color, yellow is a gap and cyan is premium only.

Do you think Fisheye is too specialist (too low volume) to be made into FE mount? The Minolta/Sony fish can be used via one of the adaptors - and adaptors are gonna be in a specialists bag, right. Sony can rely on that being the route to the fish.

Do you think 14mm and 18mm primes are just not going to be possible at the right price (R&D vs sales volume)? Or are zooms now 'just as good as' the primes we used to rely on.

Samyang appear to be very well aligned to the gaps Sony has left here with their 14/18/24mm lenses. Plus their others at non-Zeiss-priced options too.

There seems to be a lack of an 'affordable' wide zoom which would excuse the missing wide primes. Just "get the zoom" doesn't really fit here.

Or am I just misunderstanding the price of entry (prices of this lot are nice:
A7II body + 28/2 + 50/1.8 + 85/1.8)?

Wondering if the new A7C (should have been called A5) which is marketed as small/travel and the small 28-60mm will mean we get to see a small non-GMaster wide and tele zoom?
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nandbytes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 14:46
I take it you referring to first party lenses only?

There is a fisheye option in using the matched fisheye converter for your FE28/2.
There is also a premium 24mm i.e. the 24mm f1.4 GM which is one of my personal favourites.

There is a rumour that there'll be a 16mm f1.8 prime which will of course be premium option like 20mm and 24mm.

Though the 20mm and 24mm are certainly expensive they are well priced considering thier of optical prowess and being best in class.
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Miranda F View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miranda F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 15:03
There are plenty of 3rd party lenses in those FL. And now that SOny are more open on the E interface than they were on the A, most of those do seem to work properly ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 15:29
Originally posted by Miranda F Miranda F wrote:

There are plenty of 3rd party lenses in those FL.
+1

And regarding a wide zoom the Tamron 17-28/2.8 zoom might be a bit pricy, but still below the Sony 16-35/4 so somewhat affordable from that perspective (and a stop faster, albeit at a slightly narrower range).
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Bob J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bob J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 15:35
Samyang.

Samyang do the 24 and the 20, plus they do manual focus fisheyes (an AF fisheye might be nice, but pretty much everything is going to be in focus all the time anyhow).

I've held (for some time) that Sony see more money in bodies than in lenses (a turn around on conventional thought from analogue days). Bodies are solid state and require relatively little calibration, but lenses need to be put together with absolute precision, and that costs money.

It appears that Sony produce a lens where they have an appropriate patent, or where there is a gap in what is available from third parties...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 16:06
Yes, I was thinking more 'sony-own' and AF ... but they are smart in properly licensing out their mount (something, I think Canon / Nikon don't favor).

For me - in the cheap seats - Samyang have a super set of options there. The size of the 35/2.8 is almost unbelievable. Would be nice if Sony allowed Samyang and Sigma lens firmware updates via the body though (I think both need dedicated USB gizmo, right?).

@bob, actually yes this makes sense. Bodies have Sony's compute strength inside them. Sony are also smart keeping old bodies available new (RX100 III, Va, VI, VII, plus the older A7II).

Bodies also get a fair amount of press coverage - lots of lines in the spec list to get over excited about. I'd guess a new body gets more press/internet coverage than a new lens (photographer required to review lenses).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 16:17
Samyang requires a USB lens station/dock for updates which makes me think they either have a partial license of they have reverse engineered the protocol.

Both Tamron and Sigma lenses are updated via. the body like 1st party Sony lenses.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote QuietOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 17:09
The Tamron 17-28 F2.8 is very good. I paid less than the price of the Sony E 10-18 F4 OSS for it.

The 21mm F2.8 ultra wide converter for the 2/28 is ok too. Sony's budget 16mm fisheye and 21mm rectilinear prime options are accessory lenses for the 2/28. The 2/28 has sensors so the camera recognizes when those are used so they get full electronic support.

Sony has similar converters for the APS-C 2.8/16 and 2.8/20 lenses, but those don't get recognized by the cameras.

Edited by QuietOC - 01 January 2021 at 17:17
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 21:07
I’d opine that the Sigma E-mount primes are as good as most of what Sony has to offer (and it’s really only their GM lenses that pull ahead of them). The Zeiss Batis range is also pretty good.

For those of us comfortable with manual focus, Voigtlander, Zeiss Loxia and Laowa offer some prime lenses that are quite superb. For instance, my Voigtlander 110mm macro is easily sharper than any Minolta or Sony macro lens I’ve used in the past.
a7riii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 G; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Tamron 150-500 f5-6.7; Sony SAL 135/2.8 STF
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 23:07
I do have my eye on two of the Voigtlanders ... but will be a fair way into the future before I get serious about grabbing them
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
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If you've got something better tonight
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 23:09
so, does anything think the A7C + mini 28-60 means we'll see a small wide travel zoom, and a small long travel zoom? Maybe a small travel range zoom (24-200)?
Walk out if it doesn't feel right
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nandbytes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2021 at 23:14
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

so, does anything think the A7C + mini 28-60 means we'll see a small wide travel zoom, and a small long travel zoom? Maybe a small travel range zoom (24-200)?


I wouldn't hold my breath for it. Besides Tamron quite nicely covers all those areas.

24mm is not an easy focal length to design lenses from what I have read (primes or zooms starting at 24mm). So I see why Tamron tends to avoid it for zooms to keep things small but keeping the IQ very good.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wētāpunga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2021 at 00:24
Originally posted by dCap dCap wrote:

I do have my eye on two of the Voigtlanders ... but will be a fair way into the future before I get serious about grabbing them


At least they're not Sony GM expensive

So far I've been very impressed at how well they perform. The 15mm has almost no barrel distortion, which for an UWA lens, astonished me. I'm glad I saved up and got them first, rather than dabbling with other cheaper lenses and then buying them...

The only annoying things is the hoods. The 15mm has a built in petal-hood that prevents the use of filter systems like Lee. Add the spacing is too tight to fit my 58mm CPL filter (it has raised edge on the adjustment ring that's blocked).

The 110mm has a tapering lens hood which can't be fitted on in reverse to the lens. So it's difficult to carry in the small camera bag.
a7riii- Voigtländer 15/4.5, 110/2.5 M; Zeiss Loxia- 21/2.8, 35/2, 50/2 & 85/2.4, Zeiss Batis- 85/1.8 & 135/2.8; Sony 24-105/4 G; Sigma 70/2.8 M; Tamron 150-500 f5-6.7; Sony SAL 135/2.8 STF
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