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relative size difference m43/APS/FE

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addy landzaat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 09:24
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

If we do all agree about equivalence, apparently some just don't like to talk about it much.
YES! You get it - I hope! For some people it is irrelevant to their photography.

I wonder why you want to talk about it so much.

I wonder why you're talking about it as much as I am if it's not interesting to you.
That is not an answer...

Edit: let me answer your question when I say you did not answer mine. I am interested in equivalence, but less then you (it seems). I am, however, fascinated by the need some people feel to tell everybody about it.

And again: that is why the dedicated thread exists, but Lee did not want to move the discussing there

"I wonder..." with a period at the end is not a question. It's a statement, thus it does not need an answer. My position is that's okay for you to wonder about what I do and it's okay for me to wonder about what you do.

Regarding your 'fascination' about what other people think and do, reflect a bit on how fascinating a psychologist might find your participation on a subject that doesn't really interest you.

I chose the "I wonder..." form to make it possible for you (and Jonas) to ignore is. You felt the need to respond to it - but did not engage the inherent question. You still haven't. That is up to you, but I still wonder.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 09:27
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

On a further note, people saying "I'm not interested in X" is perfectly fine. In that case they should just avoid X. But saying that is not the same as saying "X is irrelevant" or "X is nonsense". My participation in this thread has been mostly to identify the differences among those statements.
Well, you did not help. Because you missed the most important one: "X is practically irrelevant in specific situations".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 11:37
Originally posted by pegelli pegelli wrote:

Originally posted by LAbernethy LAbernethy wrote:

My wife would like Tesla to add an "engine" noise to their cars. Is it comfort? Reassurance? Continuity?
It's probably me, but I fail to see the relevance of this remark to the discussion we're having here, can you elaborate?

Thinking a new technology that mimics an old technology should be the same as the old technology with all the cognitive dissonance and baggage. Thinking of the sensor as film. It is not film. It never was film. It's output is it's programing and interpretation. I could elaborate but I'm already farther down this conversational culdesac than I care to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 11:45
I've never said it was film or that the whole process is (or should be considered) as such, the only thing I said is that until the light reaches the sensor it's the same analog process as film. So that has nothing to do with "Thinking a new technology that mimics an old technology should be the same as the old technology with all the cognitive dissonance and baggage." Or do you see a difference in how the light reaches the sensor between digital and film photography? If you do I'd be interested what difference you see.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 11:49
Lens correction, white balance? really? If it works for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 11:58
Lens correction and white balance is all part of the processing after the signal leaves the A/D converter. No doubt about that but where's the difference before the light reaches the sensor, that's what I'm talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 12:36
Like I said, if it works for you. Sounds like you're a process guy. The light through the lens. Glass filters and tilt shift lenses. No, corrections, stacking, stitching, layering, saturating, desaturating, sharpening. I can respect that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 12:49
Why do you keep making (wrong) assumptions what kind of person and photographer I am, I do use computational photography and I have no tilit shift lenses or use filters for digital photography, but it seems very hard for you to admit digital photography is not only "bits and bytes" but that there is a definite analog part involved as well. That's the only point I'm trying to make. Yes you can manipulate this process with the techniques you mention, but even without any manipulation it still exists and without it photography (as we use it here on Dyxum today) would be impossible.

Edited by pegelli - 09 December 2021 at 12:52
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 12:59
There is analog (A) + digital (D). A+D=Y.
The more D the less relevant A is. A+D+D+D=X
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pegelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 13:09
OK, a small step for mankind, so you admit A exists

However A for instance controls sharpness and while overrated it still is an important aspect of photography. And unless you believe everything you see in CSI sharpness can only be improved in a very limited way by D (or D+D, or D+D+D or however many D's you want to throw at it)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LAbernethy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 13:22
Originally posted by pegelli pegelli wrote:

OK, a small step for mankind, so you admit A exists

However A for instance controls sharpness and while overrated it still is an important aspect of photography. And unless you believe everything you see in CSI sharpness can only be improved in a very limited way by D (or D+D, or D+D+D or however many D's you want to throw at it)

It's not a question of it's existence. It's a question of it's relevance. The more you manipulate the information, in camera processing and post processing the less relevant things like equivalence become. I don't think I can be any clearer. You are free to agree to disagree. on this topic, I'm done.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 13:30
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

On a further note, people saying "I'm not interested in X" is perfectly fine. In that case they should just avoid X. But saying that is not the same as saying "X is irrelevant" or "X is nonsense". My participation in this thread has been mostly to identify the differences among those statements.
Well, you did not help. Because you missed the most important one: "X is practically irrelevant in specific situations".

I didn't help you. You didn't help me either. But you and I aren't the only people here.

And I didn't miss it at all, but it came late. Perhaps it was my input that prompted it to be expressed that way after it was expressed in those other ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote addy landzaat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 14:03
Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

On a further note, people saying "I'm not interested in X" is perfectly fine. In that case they should just avoid X. But saying that is not the same as saying "X is irrelevant" or "X is nonsense". My participation in this thread has been mostly to identify the differences among those statements.
Well, you did not help. Because you missed the most important one: "X is practically irrelevant in specific situations".

I didn't help you. You didn't help me either. But you and I aren't the only people here.

And I didn't miss it at all, but it came late. Perhaps it was my input that prompted it to be expressed that way after it was expressed in those other ways.
Sigh - you did not miss it but it came to late? What? I mentioned it before but you seem to have missed that.

I tried to explain why some people are different then you, but I failed. I quit.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sybersitizen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2021 at 14:28
Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

Originally posted by addy landzaat addy landzaat wrote:

Originally posted by sybersitizen sybersitizen wrote:

On a further note, people saying "I'm not interested in X" is perfectly fine. In that case they should just avoid X. But saying that is not the same as saying "X is irrelevant" or "X is nonsense". My participation in this thread has been mostly to identify the differences among those statements.
Well, you did not help. Because you missed the most important one: "X is practically irrelevant in specific situations".

I didn't help you. You didn't help me either. But you and I aren't the only people here.

And I didn't miss it at all, but it came late. Perhaps it was my input that prompted it to be expressed that way after it was expressed in those other ways.
Sigh - you did not miss it but it came to late? What? I mentioned it before but you seem to have missed that.

I tried to explain why some people are different then you, but I failed. I quit.

Look back at my posts. I was addressing some people who are not you, and talking to them about the actual things they have said here, and about what they eventually said later in the thread.

Your interaction with me was totally initiated by you, and has been all about questioning why I want to say anything, and thus has been of no help to either of us.

I'm happy to know you quit. Saves me a lot of time.

Edited by sybersitizen - 09 December 2021 at 14:31
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